Working Unfitted Freight Trains

[edcayton]

Did the Guard have any means of communicating with the loco crew when the train was moving?

Were there specific whistle codes for the crew to use? When the train came to a "stop and pin down brakes" board, did the guard do the lot, or did one of the loco crew help him? Did he have to go to the loco and tell them when he had finished, and if so how did they know when he was safely back on his van?

 

Basically I am interested in all aspects of what must have been a very difficult but everyday part of the steam age railway, and absolutely essential for those of us who model this era to consider.

 

Ed

[Trevellan]

My training – albeit at heritage railway level – was that the loco crew were expected to look back at the train regularly to ensure all was well. The guard would show a red flag (or red lamp at night) if there was a problem. Obviously, with a fitted freight the guard could break the vacuum and apply the brakes. I confess I have no idea about the other aspects of your question.

[Kris]

In everything that I have read about this subject, I have not come across reference to any standard form of communication (well that I remember seeing anyhow). I would guess that as far as help goes for pinning down brakes I would imagine that this would be unlikely.

[Chris116]

The most important thing about working any train and doing anything on the railway is that you come to a clear understanding with all those concerned as to what is going to happen and how. So on a route where the brakes had to be pinned down the guard and driver would have agreed who was going to do the job or how it would be divided. When the guard left his van he would apply the hand brake in the van and once he was back in the van safely would signal to the driver using arm, flag or lamp depending on the situation. Most loco crews would probably have left it to the guard but some would have helped out.

 

Chris

[Fat Controller]

My training – albeit at heritage railway level – was that the loco crew were expected to look back at the train regularly to ensure all was well. The guard would show a red flag (or red lamp at night) if there was a problem. Obviously, with a fitted freight the guard could break the vacuum and apply the brakes. I confess I have no idea about the other aspects of your question.

I used to live a few hundred years from the Llanelli and Mynydd Mawr line, and my walk to town would involve walking next to the line, near the sign instructing 'All DOWN GOODS and MINERAL trains must STOP here and unpin BRAKES' (The wording may not be quite correct, but the style, with its apparently random capitalisation is). The brakes on the train, which would have been pinned down some five or so miles earlier, were applied in two portions- one section next to the van, the other next to the loco. The reasoning behind this, which may not have been entirely offical, was that if only the rear wagons were braked, there was a risk of snatching the couplings at changes in gradient. The guard would normally unpin the rear portion, and the second man (this was post-steam, just)the other one. The guard would then indicate to the driver, by waving ISTR, the job was done. The van brakes would still be pinned down, holding the couplings in tension, so the guard could reinforce his message by releasing his brake, so as to cause the couplings to slack and the weight of the train hit the loco buffers. At night, one could hear this happening, with a series of 'bangs' as the buffers met.

Whilst the train was running, the guard could contact the driver by applying the van brakes, usually in a number of short bursts. If the guard, who had to have route knowledge in the same fashion as a driver, thought speed had become excessive for a particular section, he would screw the van brakes down. This happened on a train my old boss was firing, somewhere in the Weald, when the Q1 was 'overpowered' by its train.

This practice of 'pinning down' brakes lasted on the Mynydd Mawr until its closure just after the Miners' strike in the early 1980s- Swansea Docks couldn't accept fitted wagons on the coal hoists.

During my 18 years living near the line, I saw a number of incidents related to braking. On at least three occasions, I heard or saw runaways, where the correct number of brakes hadn't been pinned down. On another occasion, the brakes on the van (which was parked across the crossing I used) were so hot that the oil/grease in the wheel-bearings caught light, followed by the footboards and part of the body. A final memory is of an ageing wagon body disintegrating when the buffers clashed, discharging anthracite over the ballast- the local pensioners soon cleared that up..

[Bon Accord]

As mentioned, loco crews were expected to regularly look back along the length of the train and sight the guards van to ensure all was well.

At night, to aid in this task the vans displayed a white forward facing light on each side of the van body - i.e. if the crew could see no white light then they'd know the train had parted.

You'll see the lamp brackets for these 'white' lamps on the canopy supports on the LNE/BR 20t brake vans.

[The Stationmaster]

Have you got time to read a book Ed?

Answering your first question is easiest - the Guard usually carried a rolled-up newspaper (it was easier to see than a hand poking out of the end of of an overcoat sleeve) and the Guard had a whistle of course (which wasn't much use even 20 odd wagons from the loco) and, much more easily seen especially at night, he also had a handlamp.

 

The loco crew - even in diesel years - were supposed to 'look back frequently' along the train keeping an eye out for anything unusual or a handsignal from the Guard. And the Guard was supposed to observe the train at all times prepared to deal with any emergency.

 

Right - that's the easy bits out of the way. The next thing is train handling and this demanded intimate Road Knowledge on the part of the loco crew and the Guard particularly if gradients were involved and especially if the route had an 'up & down' profile. The reason of course was because basically the only brake power was the loco and the tender handbrake plus the handbrake on the van and these had to be used in unison to keep the wagon couplings in the right position (stretched or slack) according to the profile of the road. Different crews tended to vary a bit in their methods but the basic idea was to avoid sudden undue strain on couplings as this could lead to all sorts of woes varying from coupling shackle breakage right through to pulling the headstock out of a wagon on older timber framed vehicles. But at the opposite extreme sudden slacking also had to be avoided as it could lead to a shackle jumping off a coupling hook and the train parting for that reason. Once diesels came in the correct way to handle an unfitted train was to use the straight air brake on the loco and not the automatic brake (which would apply the loco brakes via a proportional valve - but lacked the 'feel' needed for the job).

 

Steep gradients were dealt with under a system called 'The Incline Instructions' and here the brakes on the wagons were used to hold the train. In essence the idea was very simple - the train was gradually worked onto the descending gradient and as this was done sufficient wagon brakes were pinned down to hold the entire train, once the Driver could feel that enough brakes had been applied he gave a whistle signal (I think, without checking, it was 2-2-2?) and he restarted the train using the power of the loco to overcome the wagon brakes. The theory was that sufficient wagon brakes were always applied to hold the entire train stationary on the steepest part of the gradient therefore the loco had to apply power in order to move the train and this left the loco and van brake power available to stop it at any time should it be necessary. Maximum permissible speed was - again from memory - either 5 or 8 mph.

 

In many respects this method was far safer than relying on automatic brakes as it ensured, or was meant to ensure, that the train's weight was always held and could be readily stopped. In practice things could be a bit different - I once came down from Cwmbargoed, where the steepest parts were around 1 in 37 or worse, on a train of about 1100 tons with every wagon brake lever pinned down. Drivers used to reckon that if you went through Bedlinog at under 40 mph you would stop at the bottom - remember the speed limit I mentioned? With a train of that weight they didn't dare touch the loco brake until they were nearing the bottom where the gradient eased as there'd be no brakeblocks left on the loco - locos on that turn for more than 3 days in a row quite often had to go to Canton for a new set of brakeblocks

 

That was a bit extreme - but not much - as we still had other steep gradients in the area in the early 1970s. Another feature in some places was the provision of a bank Guard (or someone else) to help the Guard apply the brakes at the top of the incline and someone else down at the bottom to help him release them - or a Travelling Shunter might also be assisting.

 

Hope that's helped give a flavour of it all. Incline working sorted the men from the boys on the 'old' railway and was probably one of the more interesting, and sometimes hair raising, parts of everyday railway work.

[coachmann]

A very full reply has been given by Stationmaster. All I can add is we had to come to a complete stand to pin down brakes before descending into Manchester Victoria. I was only a passed creaner in 1960 and so I presumed the guard knew why we had stopped. It was left to me to pin down as many wagons brakes as the driver instructed, which was usualy 7 or 8. When at the bottom of the incline, I had to unbrake the wagons on the run, and I mean run, while watching to avoid tripping over wires. Annoyingly, I tripped over the darn subway roof once which left some girls on the platform laughing........18 year old boys are sensitive to such things!

[6Y99]

Working trains with the Auto Brake through the whole train can be a toe curling experience when going into Manchester Victoria, I was once on and Healey Mills - Fiddlers Ferry MGR

coming down the Hill from Thorpes Bridge and running on restrictive aspects and I had the brake of the 56 in Full Service and the train was picking up speed as we dropped into Man Vic

mind you the old HAA hoppers wearnt the best for braking at the best of times.

[edcayton]

Many thanks to all who have replied so far.

I was not aware of the existence of signs to stop and unpin brakes.

So, in model form, what we need is a sign before the top of the incline and another at(?) the foot, and for the trains to stop twice-or have a model Larry running and falling over! Well, if we have working bicyclists now......

 

 

Ed

[Edwin_m]

Here is an example of when things went wrong descending the bank into Victoria. Plenty of other accidents from similar causes on that site.

[The Stationmaster]

Many thanks to all who have replied so far.

I was not aware of the existence of signs to stop and unpin brakes.

So, in model form, what we need is a sign before the top of the incline and another at(?) the foot, and for the trains to stop twice-or have a model Larry running and falling over! Well, if we have working bicyclists now......

 

Ed

 

Usual GW/WR practice was a sign at the top - not needed at the bottom, they didn't need to be reminded they had got there. Plus you should have a suitable cess path for staff to walk on - preferably without any obstructions although it could be crossed by point rodding (supposed to be boarded over) or signal wires.

[Boris]

The decision on whether to pin down brakes or not on wagons rests with the driver in slightly more modern times (72 edition) than those mentioned.

 

On my first freight exam the answer given as follows:

 

"If the driver deems it necessary to pin down wagon brakes, he will come to a stand at the top of the incline, and look back. Once the guard is at the point where he wants to pin down (for arguments sake the first wagon behind the fitted head - you don't pin down handbrakes on fitted wagons unless the cylinder is defective and you are desperate), he will then indicate to the driver to draw forward slowly onto the incline. The guard will then walk alongside applying handbrakes as necessary until the driver feels that he has sufficient brakes applied (the ideal being where the driver has to apply a small amount of power to maintain speed), he indicates as such by blowing the whistle (2-2-2 was mentioned, but sometimes just a crow or even a couple of pops sufficed). The driver will keep the train moving dead slow until he sees a green flag waved from side to side from the guard indicating that he has rejoined the train and the driver may proceed at an appropriate speed"

 

Certain gradients, as described in the sectional appendices, required brakes to be pinned down (dependant on rail conditions, consist etc), it also wasn't entirely unknown for exceptional loads on poor rails to have brakes pinned down on less severe gradients. The van handbrake was kept in reserve in case the driver got into difficulties, although savvy guards would often warm the shoes and tyres on severe gradients so they would get a decent application if required.

 

Incidentally most rulebooks state that if the guard of an unfitted freight needs to attract the drivers attention he is to apply and release the handbrake several times in succession and keep doing so until noticed - experience shows that this method is less than reliable.

 

I have had 2 experiences where a driver has gone too fast down a gradient, neither ended badly thankfully but it is an extremely hairy experience. The first one took 3/4 of a mile to stop after the bottom of the gradient, the second we managed to get back and bring to a stand (barely 1 inch off the IBJ) at the signal at the foot of the incline. That one was interesting as the van handbrake was fully applied and then the shunting pole was used as a capstan bar to get a bit more bite (without skating the wheels), there was a strange smell and pall of black smoke following that train for a couple of miles afterwards after all the crap got burnt off the wheelsets and shoes!

[Poor Old Bruce]

There was also the option for the driver to give three toots on the whistle or horn if he required assistance from the guard to brake the train in normal running.

 

 

[Guest stuartp]

Hope that's helped give a flavour of it all. Incline working sorted the men from the boys on the 'old' railway and was probably one of the more interesting, and sometimes hair raising, parts of everyday railway work.

 

David L Smith gives a taste of the G&SWR way of doing things in "Tales of the Glasgow & South Western". The line from Ayr to Stranraer was a switchback and stopping to pin down brakes was considered 'an effeminate GWR practice' ! (That might be a Derek Cross quote come to think of it, but they were writing about the same line). Anyway, the technique employed was for the guard to screw down the handbrake as the train approached the top of the first incline, jam a brake stick or a piece of point rodding in it and tighten it up as far as he could, then hang on for grim death as the driver went hell for leather down the other side. The idea was to keep the couplings tight as they went through the dip at the bottom, the guard only releasing the brake once they were safely on the next up gradient. Slack brake van tyres and wheel flats were accepted as an operational necessity.

[Bon Accord]

That doesn't sound far removed from the old NBR practice either.

During the last war, the old fella was Guard on a heavy coal train from Thornton going over the hill (Glenfarg) to Perth. Alas, just as they began to descend the other side, the engine brakes on the loco (J37) through its hands in, leaving them only with the tender and guards van brakes.

Fortunately nothing untoward happened - they just went downhill a bit faster than normal, with much whistling of course!

[cb900f]

Just to add to all the above threads. There could be a sign at the top of the gradient displaying AWB which of course stood for "Apply Wagon Brakes".

 

Pete

[roythebus]

The first unfitted train I worked was from Rugby to Southam, a class 25 and a load of mineral wagons, probably about 25 of them. the driver let me have a go, having been used to tube trains..

 

Well, I soon found out the braking characteristics were rather different. There was a loop for the cement works just outside Rugby and we had to drop some wagones there. Doing about 25mph, it took about half a mile to stop the train; driver laughed as we overshot by quite a long way, so we had to set back. the line was one engine in steam so we had the railway to ourselves.

 

Interestingly, the signal controlling the level crossing entry to the cement works appeared to be a very early rotating semaphore, but was actually a new version built on a spare OHLE post!

 

After that episode I treated the unfitted goods trains with a bit more caution. We used to have various unfitted trains to Crewe and Willesden, limited to 35mph. Pinning brakes down is not something I've ever had to do though; the WCML was rather flat in that respect.

 

The Rugby drivers would tell of working freights to London with Super Ds and the like and being stuck in Hanslope loop for hours. They'd tie the front coupling to the train in front. when that one moved up the loop, the string would brake, coupling would drop with a clang and wake the sleeping loco crew!

[Taz]

The Rugby drivers would tell of working freights to London with Super Ds and the like and being stuck in Hanslope loop for hours. They'd tie the front coupling to the train in front. when that one moved up the loop, the string would brake, coupling would drop with a clang and wake the sleeping loco crew!

 

I have read similar stories from WR engine men. They would climb the signal and place a bucket on the signal arm. When the signal dropped the bucket would fall and the resulting noise would let them know they could move off.

 

Of course, this would only work on a proper railway with lower quadrant signalling

[TheSignalEngineer]

I have read similar stories from WR engine men. They would climb the signal and place a bucket on the signal arm. When the signal dropped the bucket would fall and the resulting noise would let them know they could move off.

 

Of course, this would only work on a proper railway with lower quadrant signalling

LM men used to balance the bucket on the signal weight bar or a wire crank at the bottom. That way you don't have to climb the signal. Much more sensible, and it can't fall on anyone's head when the signal is pulled off.

[Captain Kernow]

I have read similar stories from WR engine men. They would climb the signal and place a bucket on the signal arm. When the signal dropped the bucket would fall and the resulting noise would let them know they could move off.

 

Of course, this would only work on a proper railway with lower quadrant signalling

The thing that has always amazed me is that they were able to sleep under such circumstances - having tried it in the back cab of a Class 37 once or twice, I think I would even prefer a Travellodge to that! (not, of course, that they had much choice under wartime conditions etc. - I fully realise that).

[The Stationmaster]

The thing that has always amazed me is that they were able to sleep under such circumstances - having tried it in the back cab of a Class 37 once or twice, I think I would even prefer a Travellodge to that! (not, of course, that they had much choice under wartime conditions etc. - I fully realise that).

 

 

 

Sometimes I think staying awake might have been the problem. I realise wartime was different but booking on at Reading and only getting to Swindon (and back) and booking off after 24 hours on duty and they might have slept anywhere But on the 'seats' of a GW engine it does take some believing. Just as likely the bucket was used as the signal to get them back from a handy pub (going up the loop at Marston Crossing it was 2 on the whistle for two pints and 3 if the Guard was gojng to get one too).

[45157]

How fasinating it is to read those tales of "real" railway life, wonderful stuff lads, keep them coming.

 

regards

Stewart

[Rugd1022]

An ex-Great Western driver I used to work with said they called it 'hanging the pot on' when putting a bucket on the semaphore arm.

 

Roythebus - funny you mention those unfitted Southam Trippers, my first 'job' on the YTS course I was on at Rugby in '82 was riding shotgun on them and taking down the wagon numbers at Southam. It really did feel like it was 'our' railway once we'd left the down side yard at Rugby. I remember at least twice we took about 40 empties down the branch to save doing two trips, the secondman (Albert Penfold) was driving on one occasion and he nearly didn't stop in the loop at Marton Junction, that was a hairy one! Backing them down into the cement works at Southam was not something you rushed at either, it was quite steep as I recall. On the way back we'd usually stop off at Dunchurch and have our snap in the village pub, even though it was quite a walk!

 

Nidge

[16A]

I've really enjoyed this thread. It really gives you a feel for what the railways used to be like. Please do advise on any books that may contain such tales.

 

Adriano