Swindon 123 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Hello Sean, have just spotted this thread. Didnt realise that someone else had been mad enough to do a full 6 car 124 set. I did the 4 easy cars first, DMC and MBS. The TS was quite easy as I had a load of shots of them sent to me by a freind who had taken lots of photos of them withdrawn at Hull. As you found out the TBuF was the real problem. It took me a while to find some shots of the roof that gave me just enough detail to work from. I think it took me a full 18 months to get a full 6 car set into a fit state. Attached are some photos of the work I did on the project. I didn't do a decent job of explaining the process as shortly after finishing it I was taken seriously ill and modelling wasn't a high priority in my life. I may well try and rectify this ommision in the future. 303 to 124 cab transition As I didn't have the luxury of the old Trix/Dapol model to start with I had to go either scratch built or conversion option for for the cab front. The DC kits 303 cab front looked the best option as there was a family likeness, (but about twice removed 2nd cousins sort of likeness). The above photo shows the transition. 124 cab glazing tests Cab corner glazing finished but not fixed in position Once I was happy with the cab profile, this involved the addition of a fair bit of plasticard to lengthern the cab front and get the correct cab profile to match the Bachmann MK1's that where my coach choice. (SEE PHOTOS BELOW), I decided to make the glazing and cab desk before attaching to the cab front to the roof as it would be next to impossible to get a good fit once the cab was attached to the coach body roof. That was the good thing about using the Bachmann coach, the sides being seperate items meant they where easy to alter and paint seperate from the roof and cab front, the join between the blue and the yellow cab front being at the drivers door which acted as the joint between the cab and the sides. The glazing came from the Bachmann coach packing. A close initial curve match somewhere on the clear plastic packing tray was easily shaped and gently moulded to the right(ish) profile 124 cab test fit to body 124 DMC body I see with your bodies you've cut and shut on your unit whilst I took the option of moving the windows around. Even on the TS some work was required to reduce the window depth. With regarding powering the unit I had been testing the Hornby improved DMU motors on other rakes for some time and had found that with careful weight placement up to 8 cars could be hauled by one power bogie so I opted to use one of them in the 6 car unit, it just fitting nicely in the brake compartment of the DMS. The photo below shows how I did it and up till now it has not let me down running around Wibdenshaw. 124 Motor bogie set up. There are some photos of the full 6 car on my workbench thread (Swindon 123's NEW workbench) on this forum but I haven't taken many shots of the finished set. Something I shall have to remedy. I look forward to seeing your finished unit. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 C Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Sean, I've just been catching up on events here and although a confirmed steam fan, I always enjoy a good cut 'n' shut thread. I also admit to soft spot for Trans Pennines. There's definitely something about those wrap around windows... I know it's on the back burner, but leaping back a few months to your Class 27 conversion, I have some further suggestions for mesh suitable for the cantrail grilles if you haven't yet sourced anything suitable. First is a kitchen sieve/strainer like this one: http://www.wilko.com/kitchen-utensils+gadgets/wilko-strainer-metal-195cm/invt/0335040?VBMST=strainer More of an open weave than a tea strainer and with quite thick wire used for the mesh. Probably has a lot in common with this stuff: http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_189682_langId_-1_categoryId_165625 The other alternative is a frying pan splatter guard like these: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/10112530/ or http://www.wilko.com/pots+pans/wilko-splatter-guard-29cm/invt/0817440?VBMST=splatter Less of an open weave than the sieve and with a finer wire too which makes for quite a delicate look. They have the added advantage of being flat, so they should resist the temptation to curl and ripple like the bowl shape of the strainers. I can't lay claim to this last one as it came from Dave Slater (Dean Sidings) during a discussion about Turbomotive front ends. He in turn I believe, got the idea from someone else. Hope this helps. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted June 3, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2013 Got a pic here of a TP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hi Sean Could they be parked up power cars? Withdrawn? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Its almost certainly one of these. A DMBS. These had an open seating area, the other end of a 123 was a DMSK. When the 123's moved up to Hull they ran mixed with 124's in many different formations. Sometimes they didn't even have to be the same class! Trans Penniner DMU E51967, E51983 leading Met Cam set E50204 and E56066 on the 1315 hrs to Manchester, at Sheffield, 24th February 1981. Heres another shot showing a mixed set at Doncaster on the 17th July 1981. Cl 123 DMU 52097, 59834(ex Cl 124 MBSL 51969), 59820, 52105, Doncaster, Note that 59834 is one of the 9 ex MBSL that had the power units removed and became plain trailers in the early 1980's. Paul J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2013 Thanks for posting Martin. It's a smashing picture. I may be wrong here, but although the vehicle furthest right appears to have B4 type bogies, it appears to have a fuel tank and exhaust stack, I thought the 123's with the B4 bogies had unpowered centre cars, or is it a class 123 coupled directly to a 124 forming a 2 car set? Cheers. Sean. Sorry should have said that it was a scrap line, but is my only picture of a 123 or 124 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2013 And they were somewhere near Sheffield I find the early DMUs fascinating, and now my car has had a new set of long rubber bands* I can get on with the 116 paint. * V6 cambelt and auxiliary belt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Hi all. Regards MJI's photo, I think the comments above have cleared it up. I had made the assumption that because it was coupled to a class 124 DMC, the next vehicle must have been a class 124 MBSK, however, as Swindon points out, that vehicle is an open saloon, and matches the class 123 configuration also. Panic over it seems. Clive, you suggest it to be two power cars coupled together, on reflection and looking at the trackwork state/layout, they're possibly stabled at BG depot? Swindon, thanks for posting your pictures on here, I'll never tire of looking at new Trans - Pennine images, especially if they show the centre car underframes....... ;0) Cheers. Sean. Sean, I have culled many photos from the web and other places/books over the years I've been reseaching these units. Unfortunatley the two I've posted are the only ones from my own negs, the others would have copyright issues preventing me from posting. If you PM me with your requirements for what you are missing or need more info on and let me have your e-mail address I'll see what info/photos I have got. Paul J. PS. After posting remembered I did have one more shot, showing the headlight fitted DMC, but when the headlight was fitted and went OOU I don't know. The second vehicle is a 123 TC, the third looks like a TS but 123 or 124 vehicle is anyones guess. The 4th and last vehicle was I think a 123 DMBS. This was quite a common mixed 123-124 combination in the last years of service. Note that by this period of operation the DMC had lost one of the 1st class seating bays, the one by the passenger door. Trans Penniner DMU E51957 leading, at Sheffield, 24th February 1981. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Sorry for taking this off topic, but having dropped an image last week, I thought I ought to add another now that I've put it back together again... all pre weathering of course. This shows the inter-coach connections as previously described using shirring elastic and neodymium magnets (small ones). Overall, the ends have been detailed as normal with some shawplan pipes and Bachmann screwlink.... and some wire for the jumper connections. Weathering will hide a lot... but now I have a representation of the unit I drove when I was 7 Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Will you be doing revolving headcode and destination blinds as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 jon, are those the original Bachmann gangways between the unit? having looked at the first pic on the other page, have you actually coupled the unit together using the screw link or just left both hanging loose? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 No problem going O/T Jon. The connectors look very effective indeed if a little fiddly for my clumsy hands..... You must have the patience of a saint...... Cheers. Sean. Cheers Sean... patience? No, I'm just mad Sorry going OT again... jon, are those the original Bachmann gangways between the unit? having looked at the first pic on the other page, have you actually coupled the unit together using the screw link or just left both hanging loose? Yes they're the originals. I know that JimSW on his workbench blog did some alterantives (etched?) You'll need to look but it was here somewhere http://www.p4newstreet.com/category/workbench. I did make up a tie-bar coupling, using the NEM sockets with a bit of rail slotted in each to provide a firm coupling. It worked on test but when I fitted it last night it was too rigid and I couldn't get the coaches to sit right, so I took it off. The Screwlinks (cosmetic) are not coupled either.. but the vac pipes (the inner ones) are and they hold it in quite good tension. They only need to pull the one coach and the buffers take the load in the opposite direction. BUT... and it's a big but... my model here is for looking at, it will run, but I don't have a layout so I'm aiming for visual realism rather than run-ability. One day I'll have to tackle that, and I'd probably opt for changing the corridors for etched ones that flex... with flexible inners (as I think Jim did); but I don't need to do that yet, so I haven't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Hi Sean, after a very exhastive search trhrough all my photos it would appear that all my Pennine detail photos are missing, along with some BRCW and Craven ones ***************. The photo of the 123 and 124 coupled together will be most likely at Tinsley or Darnall. After we finished with them at BG, we couple 9 up as two cars, 124 DMC and 123 DMBS these were back up for 141s, these sets where intially kept at Dairycoates then moved to Sheffield to cannalabised for other Albion powered units. Al Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Sorry for taking this off topic, but having dropped an image last week, I thought I ought to add another now that I've put it back together again... all pre weathering of course. This shows the inter-coach connections as previously described using shirring elastic and neodymium magnets (small ones). Craven 2 LR.jpg Overall, the ends have been detailed as normal with some shawplan pipes and Bachmann screwlink.... and some wire for the jumper connections. Weathering will hide a lot... but now I have a representation of the unit I drove when I was 7 Craven 1 LR.jpg Jon Looks good, just one minor point the inner jumper socket and plug should be the same colour as the solebar, not orange. Al Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Looks good, just one minor point the inner jumper socket and plug should be the same colour as the solebar, not orange. Al Taylor Thanks for that; I searched many photos and found only a few "clean" ones, and these looked the colours I chose. They'll all be caked in "brown" by the time I'm finished so hopefully I'll loose any colour discrepancy. Thanks for the correction though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC126 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 The LPG boxes look similar to those on the 120's and as luck would have it, these are similar, (if not the same as), the ones supplied by Southern Pride Models. I think, having used the pictures linked by Keefer that I have got the Griddle Car underframe as close as I'll get it, (ironically, it's the TSL I'm stuck with although I am getting there), but please do post as many shots as you can get as, to quote Eric Morcambe, there will be all the right equipment, not necessarily in the same order...... Hi Sean, - finally managed to get the detail photos of the 126 cars loaded up to my Flickr account. Sorry for the delay. There should be pretty much all the main equipment on both sides of a power car and the centre trailer here. Obviously the 126s have the 150hp AEC engines as opposed to the mighty Albions on the 123s and 124s - not sure how similar the gearboxes, etc are, but the close-up shots might help to make sense of the odd shadowy detail you have of the Trans-Pennines. http://www.flickr.com/photos/44232489@N02/sets/72157634290109430/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Hi Sean, - finally managed to get the detail photos of the 126 cars loaded up to my Flickr account. Sorry for the delay. There should be pretty much all the main equipment on both sides of a power car and the centre trailer here. Obviously the 126s have the 150hp AEC engines as opposed to the mighty Albions on the 123s and 124s - not sure how similar the gearboxes, etc are, but the close-up shots might help to make sense of the odd shadowy detail you have of the Trans-Pennines. http://www.flickr.com/photos/44232489@N02/sets/72157634290109430/ Excellant set of photos there, unfortunatly a 126 motor coach has a very different layout to a Pennine, we had one at Botanic for spares at one time ane ex E-G example 79111if memory serves right. The trailer is not far out though. Al Taylor Al taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric & Gripper Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Do not give up now. The eyes of the nation are upon you Especially Bachman, Hornby and Dapol for doing the hard work for them. What were those self contained motors we used to put in the Sentinels called.They would be like the Black beetle jobs but probably cheaper. If your going on the train to Burton you could avail yourself of many of Burton-on Trents other fine treasures. Liquid Gold i think they call it. Best wishes and never ever give up. Eric & Gripper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric & Gripper Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 52 pages definately don't give up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Hi Sean, As Eric said, do not give up! I have been looking back through your pictures of other vehicles in the unit. It might be too late to suggest it now, judging by the photos of the Black Beetle in the buffet car, but the MBS looks a good bet for motorising your model: The aperture for the motor bogie including mounting plate (6mm shorter at rear) would only be some 50mm long and approx. 3mm high if you use 40thou. sheet for its construction: The gap at the rear of the mounting plate allows the easy passage of wires should you want to drop the motor bogie out for maintenance (brass bearing bush optional).The electrics should only come to just below the level of the windows and wires to pickups only trailing bogie could run between the seats of the saloon. The luggage compartment is rather small in the MBS, so perhaps the adjacent partition and seats would need to be less than full depth - see photo of what was done in the 4 COR - albeit with a much taller Hornby 5 BEL motor bogie. In this case it was to allow the wiring to run under the vestibule window without obscuring it: Hope some of this helps, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Hi Sean, You'll sort it out I'm sure. Still think the MBS is the way to go. The measurements, given in my previous post, for the mounting of a Black Beetle assumed a floor thickness of 1mm, which might not be the case for your coach chassis. The following link might help with ideas re. ballasting of the motorised coach - whichever that turns out to be. You would need a shallow interior to sit on top of the weight however, which might like going back to square one.http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51422-4-cig-for-newhaven-harbour/page-11 All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted July 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hi FWIW at work a black beetle hauled 7 Hornby/Limby HST trailers -added an old lima "lead" weight on top all enclosed in a "Brewster" bodyshell. It will aslo haul 17 old 4 wheel wagons and this around "2nd radius" Hornby curves. Hopefully in the Buffet you will be ok. I have trailed just one in a part bult Hastings DC kit and fine for haulage on the flat. Yet to fit a second for hill climbing as not sure if needed. Followed this thread for a while and a great read so please win ! and I hope you enjoy DEMU Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I have found black beetle to be ok upto about 5 or 6 coaches as long as there are no gradients involved, the coaches do not have too much added mass, and if your not sure, putting pinpoint bearings and axles on the coaches would help. I think they`re a good idea to keeping the interior clear, but don't think that the haulage abilities are brilliant. So where I can, I try to use other means to motor my models where possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Thanks Colin. I didn't realise you'd documented progress on your EMU. I've managed to read the first few pages, but I'll definately be reading through the rest of them. I'm sure they'll be very inspiring. Cheers. Sean. Hi Sean, I wouldn't waste your time reading through all my ramblings, but a record has been kept of any process which might be repeated or useful in the future. There is a picture of the 'shallow' interior of the 4 CIG MBS if you are interested. Seeing as the buffet car is damaged and the B.B. is low-profile, you are doing the right thing. The interior floor will just need to be raised in that area and get as much weight over the B.B. as you can for maximum tractive effort. Nil desperandum! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike knowles Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 . I keep threatening to have a go at a kettle, maybe now is the time?...... Cheers. Sean. Yeah put the kettle on.............................I'll be round for a cuppa shortly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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