BromsMods Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Just a heads up that DCC Concepts are introducing a new range of 2 and 4 function loco decoders. They are due here early next week (unfortunately not in time for the Leamington Show this weekend). Once I have some further details and specifications I'll post them in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BromsMods Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well, they've arrived, but I've only just had time to take a very quick look at them. Available with 2 or 4 functions, in single or 5-packs, and with or without a stay-alive facility. They are about the same size as a TCS T1 decoder. However, there are no instructions/specifications with them so will post more (and make them available for purchase) when I have discovered some of the vital info. Looks as though they will be competitive price wise with the likes of TCS, NCE and Digitrax, for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Is the stay-alive facility built-in, requiring no extra parts? Presumably Back EMF is also included? This is the exactly the innovation I've been waiting for before getting back into DCC, and if this decoder performs well you can count me in for a bucketload. Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi Is the stay-alive facility built-in, requiring no extra parts? Presumably Back EMF is also included? Yes, the DCC Concepts decoder does have Back EMF. A 9 JST harness one end with 90mm of wire and on the opposite end it of the decoder it has 2 wires 60mm long coming out the rear, a black and blue. Now if you buy the DCC Concepts Decoder (D4SAP) this comes with "Stay Alive" which has 140mm of wire on it. This gives you the option of placing the stay alive just about anywhere in you loco. The stay alive has a small sub circuit so nothing needs to be added just solder the 2 wires together. British modelers are going to love the lighting features. I will post a video at the appropriate time. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwales Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi martin What's a "Stay Alive"? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 There's still no information on the DCC Concepts web site. The link is there, but Richard hasn't loaded anything on there yet. This is not meant as a criticism, but I'll make one observation...... 2 & 4 functions may be alright for simple Steam and Diesel or Electric model applications, but is a bit limiting for many modern models where more functions may be needed. The same limitation will apply where someone wishes to convert a locos lighting to provide fully independent lighting functions, or if installing a full lighting kit. In comparison, competing designs are now catering for 5 and 6 functions (e,g. Lenz Silver/Gold, Zimo, some of the new TCS designs etc,). A higher number of functions are available on some decoders, but at a price. Presumably somebody else is making these decoders for DCC Concepts. I expect it's a known manufacturer? So are they a bespoke design or simply re-badged products from another range? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Presumably somebody else is making these decoders for DCC Concepts. I expect it's a known manufacturer?So are they a bespoke design or simply re-badged products from another range? Ron your assumption it incorrect, it was designed from the ground up using new technology. Can I suggest before making comments that you wait for the information to be released. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi martin What's a "Stay Alive"? Ian It's a facility provided to allow short wheelbase locos, with relatively few pick-up contacts, to overcome momentary losses of power when passing over gaps or bits of dirt on the track. It uses a capacitor of sorts and some "managing" electronics to supply power to the decoder for the split second or so when track power is broken or interrupted. The idea is to prevent stuttering or stalling as the loco passes over such a place (e.g. pointwork). Most useful on 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 locos and it can be very effective. Lenz puts the capacitor and some of the electronics on an additional circuit module that connects to a decoder designed to take it (Lenz Power 1 & Power 3). Other decoder manufacturers, such as Zimo, are building-in the electronics to their newer decoders. All you have to do is attach a suitable cheap capacitor and activate the "stay alive" function. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Ron your assumption it incorrect, it was designed from the ground up using new technology. Can I suggest before making comments that you wait for the information to be released. Cheers Martin Martin, my presumption was simply about manufacture, as setting up for decoder production would appear to be a very expensive exercise. After all, even "big name" brands buy in their chips from other companies. If they are being produced in-house, I would be slightly surprised but so be it. I guess that would be a brave move not without some considerable risk and I would wish Richard well in the venture.. The rest of my comment was a question - "are they a bespoke design or simply re-badged products from another range"? Do I assume you've now answered that one for me? In the absence of any information, particularly on DCC Concepts own web site, are you not surprised questions may be asked? However, I will do as you suggest and wait for the details to be published. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 This sounds interesting, a new contender in the decoder ring. Given DCC Concepts own website statement about the decoders they choose to stock then these new designs must be something special indeed. DCC Decoders (Loco decoders / Mobile) We are VERY fussy about the decoder brands we will sell and we recommend only our chosen brands for good reasons. We made our selection and limited our range based on six key factors: (1) “Real life†reliability once installed (2) The quality of warranty cover for our customers (3) The ability to give consistent high quality performance in wide variety of locomotives (4) Installation flexibility and ease of installation- in shape, size and protection from accidental short circuit. (5) ability to be programmed to accurately reproduce real life lighting types and accommodate many differing running requirements (6) Overall quality. This set of selection criteria are set in stone and we will never compromise! While the selection may increase if we find other brands we approve of, at this point it has led to our selection of only ESU and TCS for Loco drive decoders and only ESU, QSI and Tsunami for sound decoders. We do NOT stock or sell decoders by NCE, Digitrax and Lenz, as while each brand has some excellent products, each of them also failed to meet the strict requirements of our decoder test criteria for different reasons. We do emphasise that this decision is a decoder based issue only - those same three brands do make exceptional control systems which we like and we are pleased to recommend them without reservation and sell with total confidence. We know we made the right choices as we also use only these same brands in our own locos - and we’re extremely fussy… So we are very, very sure that you’ll be pleased with the performance of every decoder (provided of course it is installed properly!) Looking forward to seeing the specs but it would be nice if there were just a few more functions as Ron said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BromsMods Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 This sounds interesting, a new contender in the decoder ring. Looking forward to seeing the specs but it would be nice if there were just a few more functions as Ron said. You just can't please some people...........!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 You just can't please some people...........!!!! I guess Karl's comment reflects the fact that there's a demand for a variety of decoders with different numbers of functions. Until recently, decoders with more than 4 functions were few in number, but several manufacturers have recently responded to market demand and are producing new or improved models with more, for those who want them.. e.g. Lenz moved from decoders with 2 & 4 functions, to decoders with 3 & 5 functions; TCS offer 2, 4 & 6 depending on model, Zimo offer 4, 6, 8 & more, etc. My own comment about this (above) was just an observation, not a criticism. 2 & 4 function models are a good start, but who knows, this new range may have more decoder designs in the pipeline? I'm not going to speculate about it...... in case I get told off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CullingworthGNR Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hello, Thanks for the responses. I'm still not 100% sure whether, other than the decoder, we need an additional capacitor or not. Is this included in the decoder? Why are the wires much longer for the stay-alive version? Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 You just can't please some people...........!!!! Hi John - I know, it's terrible to be so demanding I admit that for most people 4 functions are plenty and I am certain that, given DCC Concepts track record, these will be an excellent addition to the armoury of all us decoder fitters. It's only that I and a few others tend to fiddle around building in lighting and moving bits leading us to sometimes run out of functions which is why I keep coming back to you for the ever reliable TCS 6 function heroes. Now a new 8 or 10 function decoder . . . . . . . . . . . (I would love to buy Zimo but I really need my kidney) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Mc Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi My own comment about this (above) was just an observation, not a criticism. 2 & 4 function models are a good start, but who knows, this new range may have more decoder designs in the pipeline? I'm not going to speculate about it...... in case I get told off. You will not get told off Ron it's just about the correct information getting out as I'm sure you can appreciate with the launch of any new product the manufacturer may already have certain marketing strategies and agreements in place. As to what else is available please just wait for the official announcements. I promise it will put a smile on your face Ron. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 As to what else is available please just wait for the official announcements. I promise it will put a smile on your face Ron. I hope it does Martin. Putting out very limited information, or "teasers" ahead of the official launch may not be a good idea then? When will the official announcement be made? regards Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm sure Richard Johnson of DCC Concepts will answer any queries. Don't know if he's a member here but he is over on the Model Rail Forum or Bromsgrove Models would be able to answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Johnson Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 *** Hi all A quick bit of feedback on the decoders. All this is a wee bit premature in a way as I hadn't actually intended to add them to the web until my return from an OS trip early in Feb ( I am visiting UK and EU). I am very sorry that full instructions will have to wait until then too... CV structure isn't different but we are doing instructions a bit differently as we try to with many of our products - really wanting to demistify the act of setting decoders up for use properly for the average modeller. (1) They are from the ground up our own product. They are not assembled by any other decoder Mfr either. (Yes, as mentioned it is an expensive exercise and at the moment its just the "beginning of the end" end of a more than 2 year investment in time and money.) (2) We set out to create a good solid product, not to break new ground software wise. They have very good back EMF that can be controlled interactively but does not need adjusting loco by loco. They have exceptionally nice slow speed control and easy direct connection for an affordable stay alive device that is at a VERY low price when bought at the same time as the decoder. (3) The stay alive has two primary effects: It aids slow running and greatly smooths super slow speed running as the decoder is no longer susceptible to frequent momentary power losses as always happens with very slow speed, even in bigger locos. It is NOT designed to make the loco run over large non conductive areas. It can also be parallelled to increase its effectiveness if wanted (to keep it small, we limited its storage ability) (4) Price is to say the least very competitive. Not as low as train set brands though. (5) They are available in two sizes, one relatively conventional and one quite small. Both have removeable harnesses. All harnesses have UK orientation on the 8 pin plugs. Both sizes cope with more than 1 amp comfortably. (6) They are to be available in 2 and 4 function. They are easily used in multiple (even with the same number using decoder lock) and as they are actually no dearer than most "function only " decoders having 6 or 8 functions if you want isn't going to be a problem :-) (7) They DO have exceptional function control - lots of neat effects that we are doing our best with instructions to make a really easy thing to use. (8) We will expand the range progressively, but we are not intending to be all things to all people. The range will take its time to grow as I beta test everything for months at each stage. (9) Yes some modellers do need lots of function - I doo too sometimes, but see (6) above. Anyway... there is no shortage of 6-function decoders but there IS a shortage of decoders with an easily adopted stay alive :-) :-) (10) Warranty will be good as always but not quite totally responsibility-free goof proof either. Visitors to my offices have been seeing them in action on my test track for over a year now as we finally tweaked things. We are very happy that they are nice decoders with really good performance (45 minutes for 3.5 metres isn't too bad as slow running :-) ) So far we have 3 models to hand one of them in limited numbers (full productiondelivery only exists for 2 models) with the third only available in limited qtys until later in Feb.. Full initial range of 4 models will not be available until then either... <ore models will follow later in 2011. We will be shipping to a wider retailer base ASAp, but I really want to introduce them face to face to most dealers, so look for that late Feb Please be patient, all will be revealed in due course. regards Richard DCCconcepts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thank you Richard - that is very informative indeed & I for one will look forward to seeing the specs and the decoders in action. As you say 45 mins for 3.5m is indeed excellent slow running plus 1 amp comfortably is music to the ear for older mechanisms. It is refreshing to see that smaller independent companies like yours are taking the initiative and investing considerable time and money in new DCC ventures - good luck with these decoders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 So, it's a bit like a Hornby decoder then ? Only joking Richard. Seriously though, it sounds very interesting. I hope this venture is a roaring success and leads to more great products coming from your stable. I'm with the others and hope you are able to do a 6 function version at some point in the future and are considering other connectors such as the 21-pin and new PluX arrangement. One last question. Do you ever sleep ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BromsMods Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 If there are modellers out there who want these, then, we'll make them available now if the response is sufficient, but bear in mind that there won't be instructions/specifications. Having just received a large and expensive order I can't really afford to sit on it and await further info!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2011 How much John? Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BromsMods Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 These are prices for the larger decoders (TCS T1 size): Single 2 Function without stay alive £15.50 ............... 5-pack £68.00 Single 2 function with stay alive £18.25 .......................5-pack £80.75 Single 4 function without stay alive £17.00 .................5-pack £74.00 Single 4 function with stay alive £19.50 ......................5-pack £87.50 These are prices for the smaller decoders (TCS MC2 size): Single 4 function without stay alive £17.50 .................5-pack £71.00 Single 4 function with stay alive £20.50 ......................5-pack £84.00 It will take a litle time to set these up in our store, but I'll do that this evening if anyone is interested. I only have a few of each at the moment!! NOTE: I have added prices for the smaller decoders above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakydoke Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 What are the pin outs please or are we hard wiring these units in? From posts above.... A 9 JST harness one end with 90mm of wire and on the opposite end it of the decoder it has 2 wires 60mm long coming out the rear, a black and blue. (5) They are available in two sizes, one relatively conventional and one quite small. Both have removeable harnesses. All harnesses have UK orientation on the 8 pin plugs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 You will be hard wiring them - the 9JST goes into the decoder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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