Kenton Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 One steam MPD currently doing the rounds is normally packed full of locos and my dad said it was utterly unrealistic. They weren't going round being service but just stabled, row upon row. But how I remember my visits in the 60's they were just staked row upon row usually in a derelict condition - but with the shed virtually empty. It probably is another one of those era things. As steam engines became better and more reliable the time between failure and service intervals became longer. Also remember that in early morning more locos would be "on shed" that during the day when most would be on duties. They still remain the best and only way to show off a collection of locos, especially where the modeler has little interest in scenery or other stock. Which brings in the other point - particular to a MPD - that missing other stock is a glaring omission. The worst eror IMO is a large MPD with several shed roads and not a single coal wagon in sight. They even have a coaling and ash plant modelled! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr miles 73129 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The only thing I have against tmd layouts at shows are when there's say 8-10 diesels sat on shed all with dcc sound on tick over with their lights on, how many times do you drive past toton sheds and all the locos are fired up ready to go.........? No offence to those layouts that don't fo that you know what I'm talking about though :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimero Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 My experience of working at a TMD as a Driver (Stratford) was that not a lot happens until night when most stuff goes on and off depot and then Saturday nights and Sunday mornings when there would be 20-30 locos trying to get off depot. Apart from that it was just the birds tweeting (Sparrows of course) and the sound of 15 odd locos 'Spirex valves', there was more noise in the New Sidings from the compressors on the stabled 312 units! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WardRail Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hi - TMD or not TMD, that is the question (for earlier eras substitute MPD)... It was the late Frank Dyer (of "Borchester Market" and "Borchester Town" fame) who said "A model railway is a diorama through which the trains run" (Video "A Lineside look at Model Railways") - IMHO he was dead right. MPD/TMD layouts may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they're still layouts in every sense of the word, no matter how large/small/well or badly done. Its a hobby dammit - which broadly speaking means something you do for your own enjoyment, in your own time and fashion, if others like what you've done, well and good, if they don't, no skin off anybody's nose, you built it for yourself and if it satisfies you, then its done its job. Andy's one word answer was the only answer possible under the circumstances, you can't segregate TMD/MPD layouts just because there's too many of them or because a few bods don't like them (I believe the OP asked the question to satisfy his own curiosity, not from any animosity) Best Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted March 3, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2011 Which brings in the other point - particular to a MPD - that missing other stock is a glaring omission. The worst eror IMO is a large MPD with several shed roads and not a single coal wagon in sight. They even have a coaling and ash plant modelled! And a sand shed or sand van, perhaps a grounded coach body or some other form of canteen/changing room, and a few water cranes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpleymodeller Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 To add to the discussion, Grimleys Boxenby Depot is the ultimate TMD layout and definately deserves a place in the layout topics section B) Regards Lewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza 50 015 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Im currently building not a TMD or MPD but a T&RSMD. LOL Its going to be set in the 1980`s somewhere near Exeter. Theres going to be a few class 50`s, HST`s, 108`s etc etc. Currently the sheds are about 4ft long and taking up all my spare time. So if you do like or dislike depot layouts WATCH OUT another one is on the way with lots of photos......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 There is nothing wrong with TMDs SPs etc - it is a reflection on the lack of space people have nowadays. As for the comment about them being just as expensive to build - add in track and timber costs, throw in some more buildings and scenic stuff and the "roundy roundy" works out a fair bit more expensive than a "shelf / plank". The problem I have with "modern image" MPDs /SPs is the number of engines "on shed". Fair enough to have literally shed loads of engines in the steam era - their turnaround times were longer, and time between service was shorter, so you needed more to cover the work. In recent years, the people who run railways and other haulage companies ( the bankers and financial directors) want to see these beasties earn their keep 24/7/365. To have lots sat around on shed means that the timetables are wrong. Go past any of these RDCs on the M1 and A1 - loads and loads of trailers sat waiting to unload or be collected - hardly any traction - it's out there paying its way. Same goes for rail. A good well observed post - but what about weekends.........? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 So if you do like or dislike depot layouts I'd say most of us on here don't dislike particular genres but just the really poor/crap ones of all genres! And your post Dazza, shows very quickly you have more of an idea than many of those behind the sort of TMD layouts that just don't do it for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Im currently building not a TMD or MPD but a T&RSMD. LOL Its going to be set in the 1980`s somewhere near Exeter. Theres going to be a few class 50`s, HST`s, 108`s etc etc. Currently the sheds are about 4ft long and taking up all my spare time. So if you do like or dislike depot layouts WATCH OUT another one is on the way with lots of photos......... Excellent - another reason to have an MPD TMD SP or T&RSMD category...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 But how I remember my visits in the 60's they were just staked row upon row usually in a derelict condition - but with the shed virtually empty. It probably is another one of those era things. As steam engines became better and more reliable the time between failure and service intervals became longer. Also remember that in early morning more locos would be "on shed" that during the day when most would be on duties. But most MPD layouts I've seen don't really replicate operation in any shape or form. It's probably a case where a set series of moves/events would work, with cards (like a lot of exhibtion layouts used to do, certainly remember them from ehibtions when I was a child!) displaying things like 'Loco from 1030 Leeds - London King's Cross arrives for servicing'. This would explain the reason for a loco arriving and add proper operation into the mix too. I doubt everyone would like to do this, but it was just a thought! They still remain the best and only way to show off a collection of locos, especially where the modeler has little interest in scenery or other stock. Probably so, yes but not always interesting! If it's a collection of well modelled locos it may be intersting but a gorup of out of the box models, then it's not the most interesting thing for me! Which brings in the other point - particular to a MPD - that missing other stock is a glaring omission. The worst eror IMO is a large MPD with several shed roads and not a single coal wagon in sight. They even have a coaling and ash plant modelled! Is that simply ignorance of operating proceedures? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimero Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 No ones mentioned a LIP! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Is that simply ignorance of operating procedures? That and possibly lack of research and simply not being old enough. I can remember my fist shed visit with my father (or should that be the first shed visit I can remember) it was Weymouth in about 1956 (I say about because most memories of childhood are pretty vague) By the time I was old enough to venture (or be allowed to) stem was history and my interests had become wider. Even when you research the topic there is very little infrastructure or operational detail, most photographers concentrated on the Loco on shed rather than a row of mundane and anonymous wagons queuing up to dispense coal or other materials and to take waste away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hi - TMD or not TMD, that is the question (for earlier eras substitute MPD)... It was the late Frank Dyer (of "Borchester Market" and "Borchester Town" fame) who said "A model railway is a diorama through which the trains run" (Video "A Lineside look at Model Railways") - IMHO he was dead right. MPD/TMD layouts may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they're still layouts in every sense of the word, no matter how large/small/well or badly done. Its a hobby dammit - which broadly speaking means something you do for your own enjoyment, in your own time and fashion, if others like what you've done, well and good, if they don't, no skin off anybody's nose, you built it for yourself and if it satisfies you, then its done its job. Andy's one word answer was the only answer possible under the circumstances, you can't segregate TMD/MPD layouts just because there's too many of them or because a few bods don't like them (I believe the OP asked the question to satisfy his own curiosity, not from any animosity) Best Matthew Thanks for clearing this up - I seem to have opened a tin with worms in it...... This thread is further proof how good this hobby / obsession is generating debate of so many variations of what is right or wrong and what peoples perceptions are of Sheds TMD SP and the like - unless you are a past BREL employee (if there are please feel free to post) - I certainly have taken on board some comments before I reveal Castleton next month on the MB. In the real world by the Trackside in Sheds and on the majority of Stations nothing really happens for long periods of time but this wouldn't be too much fun for anyone.... What is wrong or right research is all important - the Ian Allan series of books by John Vaughan (Diesels in the Midland - Eastern and such) prod my fading memories of the 1970's and to myself are invaluable for "correctness" but as one poster commented if it works for you it's all that matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grid56104 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 But most MPD layouts I've seen don't really replicate operation in any shape or form. It's probably a case where a set series of moves/events would work, with cards (like a lot of exhibtion layouts used to do, certainly remember them from ehibtions when I was a child!) St Ann's Depot has a card sequence of 123 moves from start to finish and there is a logic to it in that locos arrive in the appropriate arrival road, then go through the wash, onto the fulling road and then onto the shed (or vice versa) and then will depart again or stay on the shed for a while - exactly as they did in the late 70s, early 80s when I used to go about depots on my own or with organisations like the Scottish Railfans Society. There is a typed script at the front of the layout that explains to the public about the layout and its purpose and why certain classes of locos are likely to be seen. In addition I have strategically placed 12 locospotters on the layout (accompanied by a supervisor) and the typed script states this and the public on a number of occassions have stopped and looked for the 12 which adds interest to a layout that some people would consider from the postings to be boring! Max Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Max!!! that's exactly what I like to hear! Adding purpose to it all will, for me, make it much more convincing, and I hope more intersting for the operators too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grid56104 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 forgot to add to my earlier post that among the 123 moves an 08 brings in 2 fuel tankers and another 08 (already on the shed) then picks them up and then takes them to the appropriate area at the back of the actual shed building to allow unloading. Some considerable number of moves later the reverse move is undertaken and the tankers go back off the layout. Max Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 For a umber of reasons I've reccently been thinking of scrapping my main work in progress layout (not Smugglers Lane) which I've been builinding for the past 8 years or so (although I've rarely touched it in the past 2 years) and, as I've been so inspired by some of the MPD layouts on here, I've been toying with the idea of building a fairly large prototype inspired T&RSMD layout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted March 6, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2011 There are some interesting comments about TMD layouts at exhibtions (home use is a different matter altogether) and those that I have seen, quite a few do 'load' them with too many locos. However, there are some where there only a few locos are on the layout and they are well weathered and detailed. For my own layout, I will create a simple sequence for locos coming on shed, re-fueling and going off, this along with fuel tanks being brought in and then shunted with an 08 shunter.The plan is also to limit the number of locos on shed at any time to 3 or 4, plus the 08. It will be interesting to see how this works out under exhibition conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 There are some interesting comments about TMD layouts at exhibtions (home use is a different matter altogether) and those that I have seen, quite a few do 'load' them with too many locos. However, there are some where there only a few locos are on the layout and they are well weathered and detailed. For my own layout, I will create a simple sequence for locos coming on shed, re-fueling and going off, this along with fuel tanks being brought in and then shunted with an 08 shunter.The plan is also to limit the number of locos on shed at any time to 3 or 4, plus the 08. It will be interesting to see how this works out under exhibition conditions. Quite a balanced view - less is more concept - with subtle moves on / off shed sounds good - any plans to share or pre-production photos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 For a umber of reasons I've reccently been thinking of scrapping my main work in progress layout (not Smugglers Lane) which I've been builinding for the past 8 years or so (although I've rarely touched it in the past 2 years) and, as I've been so inspired by some of the MPD layouts on here, I've been toying with the idea of building a fairly large prototype inspired T&RSMD layout Welcome to the T&RSMD TMD SP MPD Circus - bring it on..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted March 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2011 Quite a balanced view - less is more concept - with subtle moves on / off shed sounds good - any plans to share or pre-production photos? My layout is Orchard Road - see layout thread. My other thought / comment was that the layout has only been exhibited once so far (three more shows to follow this year), but was largely operated by my son, who being 13 decided to get as many locos on as possible! Not strictly following my thoughts, but he was having fun and the viewers at the show seemed to enjoy it. I also have to mention though, that there does appear to be quite a few depot layouts around, I have tried to do something a little different. You will have to judge if I have achieved this, but I am pleased with my layout and I supose that this is important - as a layout builder, you model what you enjoy. However, I don't think that I will build another diesel depot layout and looking at doing something different. Perhaps in a year or two depot layouts will be less common and replaced with something else, that some people may 'moan' about being too many fetaured here! I for one, enjoying reading and looking at all models regardless of period / region. Long may this continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tay Bridge Posted March 7, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2011 Hi Hmmm. With regard to the too many locos and too many sitting idling away I recall many a visit to Haymarket (circa 1980) in the winter when there was lots of stuff on shed. Often locos and DMUs were left idling away, paticularly when very cold. I guess it just depends when and where you are modelling. In my opinion nothing wrong with a few idling while one or two move away/ in and a few ticking merrily. Guess most of us model what we like and often to bring back happy memories. If you like it, there will be others that do too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The only thing I have against tmd layouts at shows are when there's say 8-10 diesels sat on shed all with dcc sound on tick over with their lights on, how many times do you drive past toton sheds and all the locos are fired up ready to go.........? No offence to those layouts that don't fo that you know what I'm talking about though :-) Agree with what your saying there buddy...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hi Hmmm. With regard to the too many locos and too many sitting idling away I recall many a visit to Haymarket (circa 1980) in the winter when there was lots of stuff on shed. Often locos and DMUs were left idling away, paticularly when very cold. I guess it just depends when and where you are modelling. In my opinion nothing wrong with a few idling while one or two move away/ in and a few ticking merrily. Guess most of us model what we like and often to bring back happy memories. If you like it, there will be others that do too. Ipswich LIP used to be much the same. A lack of antifreeze and mistrust of the batteries ability to restart being the reason IIRC. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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