Lime Street Station

[Steve Hewitt]

Another great day.........

 

Today we hosted a visit by members of the Cumbria Region Area Group of the Scalefour Society.

 

Following a detailed tour of the layout and a lunch break, it was time for our visitors to get their hands dirty.

 

Noel Coates, Rob Harrison and I coached one or two visitors each in the control of the layout.

Whilst John took these snaps on his iPad.

 

 

 

In no time they got to grips with things, and made very good progress through our operating sequence.

 

They picked it up so well that I was able to spend a little time taking these video clips of one or two trains in motion:

 

Everyone had a thoroughly enjoyable day, and the hours passed too quickly......

 

Steve.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Steve Hewitt

[Grafarman]

Now that's the kind of video I could sit and watch all day...I especially like the coaching stock; those rakes are wonderful, and the backdrop of those buildings creates the perfect setting...more please!

 

 

David

[Brocp]

Great video Steve. Would love to know what the loco fleet consists of now. In terms of session running, do you work to a realistic time table in terms of trains, or more of a limited/made up time table?

 

In regards to the layout as a whole, how close to being properly complete is it? Or will it be a never ending project for John?

 

I'm a huge fan of the work you all have done, one of the things i will do when i come over to England (I'm in Australia) is come see the layout. It's a work of art really and everyone involved should be very proud.

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your comment.

Was that ExpoEM at Bracknell?

 

If so, it was my first time out with the layout and what a disaster it was for us.

First we struggled to get the layout levelled up properly, then some unsecured wiring in the control panel blew some "chips" in the main Routing Computer. Geoff, our electronics man, spent the whole of Saturday morning under the layout re-programming replacement chips and we struggled to move any trains using the old "manual" panels which we weren't familiar with.

 

However, we learnt good lessons, and our procedures are much more robust these days.

First John developed the "laser levelling" system using a rotating laser etc.

Second, John is much more strict on ensuring  "no technical lash-ups".

Third, we introduced strict operator training requirements.

 

If you wish to see it again, I'm sure a return visit to ExpoEM would be feasible.............

 

Steve.

 

Yes it was at Bracknell, and I didn't notice that the trains were not running as they should do, I was just gob smacked by the standard of modelling and the overall atmosphere it had of the place. It all gelled into one cohesive picture.

[ianwales]

I think the modelling is superb and what is in the photos would be difficult to see at a show, where as the trains are quite easily seen at a show as long as you are willing to wait to get close to the layout. I saw the layout a few years ago at ExpoEM and the overall quality of the modelling was great, but a lot more has been added since and I hope I get a chance to see the layout again.

Hi

 

I appreciate what you're saying, but, some of us aren't able to get to shows to see the layout in the flesh.

 

Ian

[Les Green]

Great video Steve. Would love to know what the loco fleet consists of now. In terms of session running, do you work to a realistic time table in terms of trains, or more of a limited/made up time table?

 

In regards to the layout as a whole, how close to being properly complete is it? Or will it be a never ending project for John?

 

I'm a huge fan of the work you all have done, one of the things i will do when i come over to England (I'm in Australia) is come see the layout. It's a work of art really and everyone involved should be very proud.

 

I could come and show you plenty of photos and details of the construction etc as I will be in Sydney area in March/April. Send me a pm.

[Brocp]

I could come and show you plenty of photos and details of the construction etc as I will be in Sydney area in March/April. Send me a pm.

G'day Les,

 

Pm sent thanks mate

[Siberian Snooper]

Hi

I appreciate what you're saying, but, some of us aren't able to get to shows to see the layout in the flesh.

Ian

It's nearly a 400 mile round trip for me, but sometimes the effort just has to be made and ExpoEM is one I'm prepared to dig out for.

[Steve Hewitt]

Great video Steve. Would love to know what the loco fleet consists of now. In terms of session running, do you work to a realistic time table in terms of trains, or more of a limited/made up time table?

 

In regards to the layout as a whole, how close to being properly complete is it? Or will it be a never ending project for John?

 

I'm a huge fan of the work you all have done, one of the things i will do when i come over to England (I'm in Australia) is come see the layout. It's a work of art really and everyone involved should be very proud.

Hi,

Great questions, thanks.  I'll do my best to answer them.

 

Our ambition is to run the Mid-week working timetable for 1947, but we're nowhere near that as yet. Much more stock and Locos etc. needed.

Our current Sequence is based on that working timetable, with "modifications".

It represents the start of the day, with Workmen's Trains etc. You'll notice the London Expresses are currently all departures. This involves Pilot Engines bringing in empty stock, the Train Engine backing down light from Edge Hill, the train departs followed by the return of the pilot engine light to Edge Hill.

A significant feature of the Station is the total lack of Engine Release facilities. This means each arriving train must either depart with a different engine, as our suburbans do, or the stock must be shunted elsewhere to release the loco. 

We have long distance trains, such as that from the West of England, taken to Edge Hill for carriage cleaning and servicing, and the engine goes to the shed to be dealt with.

Intermediate services such as North Wales have their stock moved to a departure platform by the station pilot, and the engine is dealt with at the station turntable and ash-pit.

Our "suburban" trains are "representative", and we use a limited number of coaching sets with a slightly larger choice of engines, which "cycle" through the system without, hopefully, looking too repetitive.

All the train announcements on the sound system are based on Timetabled services from 1947.

At the end of our current sequence, which takes something over two hours, all the stock will have returned to its starting position ready to start another new day.

 

Eventually we will extend the sequence through the day, when we can have arrivals from London etc.

 

I've discussed the issue of our stock list with John....

There is a mixture of Modified RTR, and Kit Built stock, owned by various members of our team.

Rather than just itemise what we have, John will prepare a series of postings for RMweb with details of the more interesting items.

e.g He will probably start with the story of the Turbomotive, so 'watch this space'.

 

If you do get to England in the future, be sure to come and see us. Please give us as much notice as possible, as we tend to have longish periods where the layout is not in a running condition so that development work can continue. Once an exhibition is on the horizon, we ensure the layout is operational so that Operator Training can be carried out.

 

Hope to meet you at some future date....

 

Steve.

[Brocp]

Hi,

Great questions, thanks. I'll do my best to answer them.

 

Our ambition is to run the Mid-week working timetable for 1947, but we're nowhere near that as yet. Much more stock and Locos etc. needed.

Our current Sequence is based on that working timetable, with "modifications".

It represents the start of the day, with Workmen's Trains etc. You'll notice the London Expresses are currently all departures. This involves Pilot Engines bringing in empty stock, the Train Engine backing down light from Edge Hill, the train departs followed by the return of the pilot engine light to Edge Hill.

A significant feature of the Station is the total lack of Engine Release facilities. This means each arriving train must either depart with a different engine, as our suburbans do, or the stock must be shunted elsewhere to release the loco.

We have long distance trains, such as that from the West of England, taken to Edge Hill for carriage cleaning and servicing, and the engine goes to the shed to be dealt with.

Intermediate services such as North Wales have their stock moved to a departure platform by the station pilot, and the engine is dealt with at the station turntable and ash-pit.

Our "suburban" trains are "representative", and we use a limited number of coaching sets with a slightly larger choice of engines, which "cycle" through the system without, hopefully, looking too repetitive.

All the train announcements on the sound system are based on Timetabled services from 1947.

At the end of our current sequence, which takes something over two hours, all the stock will have returned to its starting position ready to start another new day.

 

Eventually we will extend the sequence through the day, when we can have arrivals from London etc.

 

I've discussed the issue of our stock list with John....

There is a mixture of Modified RTR, and Kit Built stock, owned by various members of our team.

Rather than just itemise what we have, John will prepare a series of postings for RMweb with details of the more interesting items.

e.g He will probably start with the story of the Turbomotive, so 'watch this space'.

 

If you do get to England in the future, be sure to come and see us. Please give us as much notice as possible, as we tend to have longish periods where the layout is not in a running condition so that development work can continue. Once an exhibition is on the horizon, we ensure the layout is operational so that Operator Training can be carried out.

 

Hope to meet you at some future date....

 

Steve.

Hi Steve,

 

First off, thank you for the offer, that is most kind. That will be something I couldn't resist, seeing it that close up.

 

Thanks for the information in regards to the running of the layout. I would admit the illusion of seeing different locomotives pulling the same trains is an effective one, as you say it makes things seem less repetitive.

 

Really looking forward to the posts John is writing up about the stock, Turbomotive will be a great starting point. I've always liked the one on Lime Street, as a lot models of her in 1946 Black I've seen seem to either not have the conduit down the fireman's side of the boiler, or the grill at the front is closed off, or both. She's certainly a head turner on any layout and i do wonder if we'll ever see it made rtr?

 

Again I'd like to thank you and Les for your very kind offers and also thank you both for posting updates here on RMWEB. It's arguably the best layout in England and the fact we get to see its development here is brilliant, as there are many other wonderful layouts around who we might see once every five or so years in a magazine. Keep up the brilliant work gents!

[Steve Hewitt]

 

I've discussed the issue of our stock list with John....

There is a mixture of Modified RTR, and Kit Built stock, owned by various members of our team.

Rather than just itemise what we have, John will prepare a series of postings for RMweb with details of the more interesting items.

e.g He will probably start with the story of the Turbomotive, so 'watch this space'.

 

And here's the first of John's loco profiles.......

 

6202 Turbomotive

 

Introduction

I noticed that some people have been asking for more information about the locos’ and rolling stock we have on Lime St. so I thought when time permits, I would do an occasional series of “short“ articles highlighting an individual item of stock or loco.

To begin with both the locos’ and coaching stock are a mixture of kit/cross-kit built items, and modified “ready to run” models. They are mostly mine but some belong to other team members. I will only feature the kit/cross kit built models as apart from re-wheeling to E.M. and weathering, they are pretty much straight from the box.

 

I noticed someone was asking about 6202 Turbomotive, so for this first article that will be the topic !

 

6202 Turbomotive

My model of Turbomotive was the first pacific loco I had ever made. I considered it a logical candidate given it had no valve gear and that it was an Edge Hill loco in the time period I was modelling. The model itself is now over 35 years old and although it still looks acceptable on the layout, it falls far short of what is now available on the market both in kit form and of course “out of the box”, however I am unaware of what is available now in 4mm to produce a Turbomotive. A replacement would not be considered at present anyway as there is still far too much to do on the layout. (It really is like a Black Hole !).

Essentially the model is a cross-kit, meaning it was built from several different manufacturers components as follows;

The basis for the model believe it or not was a “K’s” Turbo Princess kit from which I used the boiler, running plate, and the tender body and side frames. The specific Turbomotive parts such as the turbine housings and cowlings on the running plates were sourced from a firm called “Crownline” who sadly went out of business years ago.

 

 

The supplied parts in the “K’s” kit were just not up to scratch.

The loco chassis, cab and tender back and sides were all sourced from Pro-scale, the tender chassis being a Comet one. Wheels are Ultrascale throughout with both the loco and tender axles being compensated.

The model is fitted with a High level gearbox (Highly recommended), and Mashima motor. I used a very high gear ratio as the model is extremely heavy, and besides it’s not a Roundy- Roundy layout! This does have an unexpected benefit because along with the seven axle pick-ups’ (drivers, tender, and pony truck) and the compensation, I NEVER have to clean the wheels.

The model is built as it was in 1947, with the enlarged reversing turbine, smoke deflectors and the cables strung along the off side handrail.  I scratch built all the “plumbing” below the smoke box door based on photos’ I had, and modelled the oil cooler door in the open position.

 

 

A point not to be missed with Turbo is that the tender was fitted from new with Timken roller bearings, fortunately these were “modelled” in the “K’s” tender side frames supplied.

 

 

That tender incidentally was subsequently paired with a Black 5 when she was rebuilt as Princess Anne and a 10 ton tender was supplied.

Finally the paint job in the 1947 express passenger livery (My favourite) was done for me by Brian Badger.

 

 

I hope you have found the above of interest, (I’m sure we will hear from you on RMweb if not !)

 

Regards,

 

John.

 

 

[Brocp]

Hi Steve,

 

Tell John thanks for the Turbomotive info, honestly i don't think it looks too out of place, no matter how modern the other locos are. One thing about the one on your layout that is 100% correct is having the front flap open when running, just as the real thing did. Most models I've seen of it have the flap closed, which of course would be fine for parked up some where (which sadly she did have long stretches of) in speaking of a modern kit, i seem to remember Turbomotive and Princess Anne mentioned on PDK's website some time ago as a possible future kit, though i don't know what happened with it.

 

Also Princess Anne still had the same 9 ton tender with roller bearing axle boxes all the way up to that fateful day at Harrow, there are pictures of the net of her "remains" with the tender in pretty good shape all things considered.

[TerryD1471]

And here's the first of John's loco profiles.......

 

6202 Turbomotive

 

Introduction

I noticed that some people have been asking for more information about the locos’ and rolling stock we have on Lime St. so I thought when time permits, I would do an occasional series of “short“ articles highlighting an individual item of stock or loco.

To begin with both the locos’ and coaching stock are a mixture of kit/cross-kit built items, and modified “ready to run” models. They are mostly mine but some belong to other team members. I will only feature the kit/cross kit built models as apart from re-wheeling to E.M. and weathering, they are pretty much straight from the box.

 

I noticed someone was asking about 6202 Turbomotive, so for this first article that will be the topic !

 

6202 Turbomotive

My model of Turbomotive was the first pacific loco I had ever made. I considered it a logical candidate given it had no valve gear and that it was an Edge Hill loco in the time period I was modelling. The model itself is now over 35 years old and although it still looks acceptable on the layout, it falls far short of what is now available on the market both in kit form and of course “out of the box”, however I am unaware of what is available now in 4mm to produce a Turbomotive. A replacement would not be considered at present anyway as there is still far too much to do on the layout. (It really is like a Black Hole !).

Essentially the model is a cross-kit, meaning it was built from several different manufacturers components as follows;

The basis for the model believe it or not was a “K’s” Turbo Princess kit from which I used the boiler, running plate, and the tender body and side frames. The specific Turbomotive parts such as the turbine housings and cowlings on the running plates were sourced from a firm called “Crownline” who sadly went out of business years ago.

 

Turbo 4.JPG

 

The supplied parts in the “K’s” kit were just not up to scratch.

The loco chassis, cab and tender back and sides were all sourced from Pro-scale, the tender chassis being a Comet one. Wheels are Ultrascale throughout with both the loco and tender axles being compensated.

The model is fitted with a High level gearbox (Highly recommended), and Mashima motor. I used a very high gear ratio as the model is extremely heavy, and besides it’s not a Roundy- Roundy layout! This does have an unexpected benefit because along with the seven axle pick-ups’ (drivers, tender, and pony truck) and the compensation, I NEVER have to clean the wheels.

The model is built as it was in 1947, with the enlarged reversing turbine, smoke deflectors and the cables strung along the off side handrail.  I scratch built all the “plumbing” below the smoke box door based on photos’ I had, and modelled the oil cooler door in the open position.

 

Turbo 1.JPG

 

A point not to be missed with Turbo is that the tender was fitted from new with Timken roller bearings, fortunately these were “modelled” in the “K’s” tender side frames supplied.

 

Turbo 3.JPG

 

That tender incidentally was subsequently paired with a Black 5 when she was rebuilt as Princess Anne and a 10 ton tender was supplied.

Finally the paint job in the 1947 express passenger livery (My favourite) was done for me by Brian Badger.

 

Turbo 2.JPG

 

I hope you have found the above of interest, (I’m sure we will hear from you on RMweb if not !)

 

Regards,

 

John.

 

 

Gorgeous model! It poses the question as to how the Princesses would have performed if they had been fitted with double chimneys (which would probably have required smoke deflectors) and how they would have acquitted themselves compared to the later Stanier Pacifics. Which in its turn poses the question as to how 46202 in its final form would have performed in the long term, had it not been smashed up at Harrow.

 

We shall never know, but it's fun to speculate.

 

Once again, congratulations to you all on the superb layout you have created.

 

Terry D

[ianwales]

Hi John

 

Thanks for the profile of the Turbomotive, one question, what do you mean by an enlarged reversing turbine please?

 

ian

[Brocp]

Hi John

 

Thanks for the profile of the Turbomotive, one question, what do you mean by an enlarged reversing turbine please?

 

ian

Most of Turbomotive's failures were related to the reversing turbine and it's clutch. It ground to a halt at least six times because of it. In July 1942 when she left Crewe Works there was an additional steam operated pump that supplied oil soley to the reverse gear. It was mounted on the right hand side platform, thus it was enlarged. I recommend LMS journal's 10 and 11 as they give quite a detailed account on the construction, operation and modifications to 6202 throughout it's life as a turbine locomotive. Edited January 14, 2017 by Brocp

[Leander]

Most of Turbomotive's failures were related to the reversing turbine and it's clutch. It ground to a halt at least six times because of it. In July 1942 when she left Crewe Works there was an additional steam operated pump that supplied oil soley to the reverse gear. It was mounted on the right hand side platform, thus it was enlarged. I recommend LMS journal's 10 and 11 as they give quite a detailed account on the construction, operation and modifications to 6202 throughout it's life as a turbine locomotive.

 

I can heartily recommend this recently published and highly readable book outlining the development of steam turbine power in the UK, in Scandinavia and the USA, with specific reference to the work carried out by the LMS.

 

"Review...

The last generation of steam-powered locomotives are often viewed as antiquated throw-backs to the Victorian era, which stayed in service well beyond their useful lives. In-fact, even in the twilight of the steam age, Britain was at the forefront of developing a new generation of steam power which could have changed the face of the railways.

 

William Stanier is known for revolutionising steam locomotive practice on the LMS, creating modern locomotive fleet. He also explored the possibilities for next generation motive power to produce unquestionably Britain's most successful experimental locomotive of the 20th Century- the 'Turbomotive'.

 

Hardback, 159 pages"

 

http://www.billhudsontransportbooks.co.uk/selected-product.php?prod=the+lms+turbomotive+&pid=12641

[Michael Edge]

Most of Turbomotive's failures were related to the reversing turbine and it's clutch. It ground to a halt at least six times because of it. In July 1942 when she left Crewe Works there was an additional steam operated pump that supplied oil soley to the reverse gear. It was mounted on the right hand side platform, thus it was enlarged. I recommend LMS journal's 10 and 11 as they give quite a detailed account on the construction, operation and modifications to 6202 throughout it's life as a turbine locomotive.

 

The turbines were not on the platform, they were mounted on the frames below. The casings above housed the control gear. Most of the problems seem to have been with engaging the reverse turbine.

[Leander]

The turbines were not on the platform, they were mounted on the frames below. The casings above housed the control gear. Most of the problems seem to have been with engaging the reverse turbine.

One cause of which was that it was moved, on occasions, by inexperienced /untrained footplate crews when on shed for disposal after a trip, or whilst being prepared for service.

[LMS2968]

Hi Steve,

 

Tell John thanks for the Turbomotive info, honestly i don't think it looks too out of place, no matter how modern the other locos are. One thing about the one on your layout that is 100% correct is having the front flap open when running, just as the real thing did. Most models I've seen of it have the flap closed, which of course would be fine for parked up some where (which sadly she did have long stretches of) in speaking of a modern kit, i seem to remember Turbomotive and Princess Anne mentioned on PDK's website some time ago as a possible future kit, though i don't know what happened with it.

 

Also Princess Anne still had the same 9 ton tender with roller bearing axle boxes all the way up to that fateful day at Harrow, there are pictures of the net of her "remains" with the tender in pretty good shape all things considered.

That tender was unusual also in the shape of the running steps, which seems to have been faithfully reproduced in your model. Post Harrow, it was repaired and ran behind 8F 8134.

[Steve Hewitt]

More visitors enjoy a "hands on"............

 

Yesterday evening one of the members of my club - Blackburn & East Lancs MRS - brought his cousin and his young son to see the railway.

Within an hour the father and son were operating the railway under minimal supervision.

Hopefully, the experience will inspire them to further their interest in model railways.

 

Steve.

[LMS2968]

Be careful! That gradient has caught out many a young driver over the years, giving the stop blocks a serious testing!

[Steve Hewitt]

Be careful! That gradient has caught out many a young driver over the years, giving the stop blocks a serious testing!

I know the feeling.

Thank goodness they are well sprung!

[Steve Hewitt]

What an interesting day.

 

BBC North West were on the phone to John early this morning to arrange a visit for filming and interviews.

 

Rob and I got the call from John to go and help out on the panels etc.

 

Cameraman arrived about 13:30, and reporter a little later.

Very busy with enormous camera and portable lights.

 

Three hours later, reporter left with an SD card of everything in his pocket, heading for Manchester Media City where it was all processed and edited down to the couple of minutes seen on this evenings Local News.

 

Pretty pleased with the result, except for the Gresley set being propelled at high speed back up the Cutting in the background of a shot of John talking.

 

Steve.

 

 

edited for grammar.

Here's the full piece from the BBC North West Tonight news programme:

 

Steve.

[Tony Teague]

Congratulations to Les and the rest of the team for the excellent article in the latest BRM about construction of the hotel - an epic feat!

Look forward to part 2!

 

Best wishes

 

Tony

[ikks]

What a brilliant model, worth a trip from OZ too see it............I love Stanier locos...Sorry Nigel!!