Lime Street Station

[john flann]

Les, I'm not a native Liverpudlian (being born in Surrey) and at first was working there on attachment from Euston so understandably sixty odd years after the event things have grown rather dim in my memory. But it was a major event in my life and i have many happy memories of it. If you get around to reading my article I think you will see what an impression it made.

 

As to the that building I have no distinct recollection of it. If it had been a boxing venue then presumably they would have been bills concerning them and those I might have observed. The Lord Nelson opposite was not a place I frequented so I didn't get along there often. Yates Wine Lodge on Lime Street was a different matter. And as I have no distinct recollection I can only assume it had no particular distinguishing features.

 

No doubt you have looked at the 1/500 and 1/1250 OSS's and if not, they may offer a clue, also the Valuation List of the time (held by the rating authority) will have a description of its use. Possibly too the Land Plans of the LM&SR  and the parliamentary  plans of the L&NWR (these I refer to in my article) might assist.

 

Incidentally, if you don't have ready access to that article I can scan and send you a copy.

 

As regards matters of further detail, I think I saw a reference to curtains for the office block windows. There were neither curtains nor blinds. Not much sun (when it shone) got over the station roof.

 

The other is that there were treadles at the end of the platform roads if your passion for detail extends that far. (The recent post regarding the ballasting refers.) These are shown in a photo of an arrived train in my article.

 

Every good wish for the success of the continuing build.

[Les Green]

Les, I'm not a native Liverpudlian (being born in Surrey) and at first was working there on attachment from Euston so understandably sixty odd years after the event things have grown rather dim in my memory. But it was a major event in my life and i have many happy memories of it. If you get around to reading my article I think you will see what an impression it made.

 

As to the that building I have no distinct recollection of it. If it had been a boxing venue then presumably they would have been bills concerning them and those I might have observed. The Lord Nelson opposite was not a place I frequented so I didn't get along there often. Yates Wine Lodge on Lime Street was a different matter. And as I have no distinct recollection I can only assume it had no particular distinguishing features.

 

No doubt you have looked at the 1/500 and 1/1250 OSS's and if not, they may offer a clue, also the Valuation List of the time (held by the rating authority) will have a description of its use. Possibly too the Land Plans of the LM&SR  and the parliamentary  plans of the L&NWR (these I refer to in my article) might assist.

 

Incidentally, if you don't have ready access to that article I can scan and send you a copy.

 

As regards matters of further detail, I think I saw a reference to curtains for the office block windows. There were neither curtains nor blinds. Not much sun (when it shone) got over the station roof.

 

The other is that there were treadles at the end of the platform roads if your passion for detail extends that far. (The recent post regarding the ballasting refers.) These are shown in a photo of an arrived train in my article.

 

Every good wish for the success of the continuing build.

 

No curtains! Another mistake! And i took several photos of our dining room curtains in different degrees of closure. These were worked on with photo editing software before printing and sticking behind the window frames. Can't win them all!

We have no access to any documents you mention so any scanned information could be useful to us. We probably have access to the MRJ article.

Thanks

Les

[john flann]

Les, residing in the USA i have no ready access to any of the sources to which I referred, but:-

 

-the old Valuation List will be with the rating authority. All it would give would be the description of the "use" then current. The List would probably take a lot of effort by the authority to find and It's up to you whether you wish to follow it up. I doubt if it's worth it.

 

-the Land and Parliamentary Plans will be with the successors in title to British Rail and wherever held. As a matter of interest in general, if convenient, it would be worth following up. They would give some "bottom" to your endeavours.

 

-the OSS's should be readily accessible at Liverpool's principal library. Again If you've never seen them, they will be worth a look.

 

-MRJ? do you mean Back Track? If you will kindly PM me with your private email address I can scan a copy for you.

[LMS2968]

The office block behind the station has now been completed and installed on the layout. This was originally the main station building until the hotel was built.

I'm not so sure on that one. The original main building by John Foster fronted Lime Street. It wasn't completed in time for the opening on 15th September 1836. It was a fine building befitting the importance of the town, and Liverpool Corporation was invited to contribute to its costs, which it did to the extent of £2,000 (which was a lot more than it sounds today! I wonder how much MORE the model station of the 21st Century cost?).

 

Traffic increases forced further accommodation, and the William Tite-designed Lord Nelson Street buildings appeared in 1849.

 

 

I can't though allow a posting to go without adding my own admiration for this model of a station I remember well from my school years. I think Frank Webb was still around at the time!

[George Hudson]

That's just stunning Les; really, really impressed.

 

Yes clicking the like button seems an inadequate response in the face of Lime Street!

[iak]

Yes clicking the like button seems an inadequate response in the face of Lime Street!

Maybe this is more appropriate...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Les Green]

A few random photos taken today during one of our running sessions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LMS2968]

Absolutely stunning!

[Siberian Snooper]

I would love to see this layout again, to see the progress since I last saw it at Bracknell ExpoEM a few years back, it was pretty stunning then. There has been a lot more progress since then.

[Steve Hewitt]

As a matter of awed yet minor interest, have you ever worked out how much power "Lime Street" consumes at full chat?

 

(We're not in the realm of a tri-ang battery controller and 3 bell batteries any more....)

Sorry for the delay........

 

Today was the start of our Training Sessions prior to taking the layout to Utrecht in November.

It was the first opportunity to check on the power consumption, which was measured by plugging everything into one multi-way extension which in turn was connected to the power meter.

The layout is powered up in a sequence, which gave us this data:

 

1. Layout lights (fluorescent tubes in the pelmets)  draw  3.50 amps

2. The "X" box, which controls and powers the sector plate and fiddle yard etc.  draws 0.05 amps.

3. The "Y" box, which controls and powers the station end of the layout, draws  0.3 amps, with all the points being activated simultaneously.

4.  The road traffic system  draws 02.amps.

 

Total load is just over 5.0 amps at 230 volts.

 

Note: the only other load in use at an exhibition is a set of 12volt lights which illuminate the information display boards to the rear of the sector plate.

 

Out of interest, the kettle draws about 7.5 amps, so we can run all we need off a single 13 amp supply

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

I would love to see this layout again, to see the progress since I last saw it at Bracknell ExpoEM a few years back, it was pretty stunning then. There has been a lot more progress since then.

Les posted the following information back in June:

 

These are our current bookings for the Lime Street Station layout.

 

EUROSPOOR - Utrecht. Netherlands

3rd, 4th, & 5th November 2017

 

Festival of British Railway Modelling - Doncaster

10th & 11th  February 2018

 

Tyneside Model Railway Exhibition - Gateshead

10th & 11th November 2018

 

Warley - NEC Birmingham

24th & 25th November 2018

 

Wigan Model Railway Exhibition - Wigan

4th, 5th, & 6th October 2019

 

Steve.

[cornish trains jez]

Absolutely stunning modelling and those photos just ooze atmosphere.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[Hroth]

Thanks for the power breakdown, its amazing how frugal modern electronic systems are.  I'm assuming the total excludes loco movements, which would be intermittent and probably not add more than another amp when running several locos simultaneously. How much extra draw do you actually get when running locos? 

 

Just thinking P=IV.  A smidgeon over a Kilowatt won't keep you warm in a cold exhibition hall, you'll definitely need the kettle too!

[Steve Hewitt]

With only three controllers, the max. no of locos moving simultaneously is say 4, if there's a double header.

With each only pulling much less than 1 amp at 12volts, it would be a very small decimal of an amp at 240 volts for all of them.

 

Steve.

[johndon]

Coming to Gateshead next year, excellent.

 

John

[Siberian Snooper]

Les posted the following information back in June:

 

These are our current bookings for the Lime Street Station layout.

 

EUROSPOOR - Utrecht. Netherlands

3rd, 4th, & 5th November 2017

 

Festival of British Railway Modelling - Doncaster

10th & 11th  February 2018

 

Tyneside Model Railway Exhibition - Gateshead

10th & 11th November 2018

 

Warley - NEC Birmingham

24th & 25th November 2018

 

Wigan Model Railway Exhibition - Wigan

4th, 5th, & 6th October 2019

 

Steve.

 

Thanks Steve

 

Most of them are a bit far from down here in the sunny South West, except Warley, which I no longer attend due to it being too much of a scrum.

[00Gauge]

Hope to see you and your layout at Eurospoor.

 

Henk.

[Les Green]

I'm not so sure on that one. The original main building by John Foster fronted Lime Street. It wasn't completed in time for the opening on 15th September 1836. It was a fine building befitting the importance of the town, and Liverpool Corporation was invited to contribute to its costs, which it did to the extent of £2,000 (which was a lot more than it sounds today! I wonder how much MORE the model station of the 21st Century cost?).

 

Traffic increases forced further accommodation, and the William Tite-designed Lord Nelson Street buildings appeared in 1849.

 

 

I can't though allow a posting to go without adding my own admiration for this model of a station I remember well from my school years. I think Frank Webb was still around at the time!

 

Perhaps this is the original station building. We have a drawing of the station building on Lord Nelson Street which eventually became offices. Parts of this building still exists. Looks like there were three different versions of Lime Street Station!

 

.

[£1.38]

The 1864 OS map suggests an elaborate frontage something like the print - but it is little more than a curtain wall. The main offices are along the north side, parallel with Lord Nelson Street. Maybe both were from the same era?

 

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/335042/390561/13/101757

[Les Green]

The 1864 OS map suggests an elaborate frontage something like the print - but it is little more than a curtain wall. The main offices are along the north side, parallel with Lord Nelson Street. Maybe both were from the same era?

 

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/335042/390561/13/101757

 

Maybe the office block is visible through the main door of the curtain wall.

[LMS2968]

The Building shown top fronted Lime Street and was opposite the Georges Hall. It dated from 1836 and the relocation to Lime Street. The Lord Nelson Street building was separate and was open from 1849, so the two were open at the same time. The station was completely rebuilt; this included removal of the original timber and glass overall roof with what is now the northern iron and glass train shed, built in ten months in 1848 - 1849. From 1867, the platform area was again extended southerly and the second iron and glass roof was provided. The Nelson Street building survived this, but the Lime Street buildings were demolished, replaced by the North Western Hotel, built between 1867 and 1871.

 

 

The images show the interior of the original train shed; the original Lime Street frontage, and then again with the Georges Hall to the left, and the clearance work in preparation for the southern extension, the northern roof already in place.

[Les Green]

The Building shown top fronted Lime Street and was opposite the Georges Hall. It dated from 1836 and the relocation to Lime Street. The Lord Nelson Street building was separate and was open from 1849, so the two were open at the same time. The station was completely rebuilt; this included removal of the original timber and glass overall roof with what is now the northern iron and glass train shed, built in ten months in 1848 - 1849. From 1867, the platform area was again extended southerly and the second iron and glass roof was provided. The Nelson Street building survived this, but the Lime Street buildings were demolished, replaced by the North Western Hotel, built between 1867 and 1871.

 

The images show the interior of the original train shed; the original Lime Street frontage, and then again with the Georges Hall to the left, and the clearance work in preparation for the southern extension, the northern roof already in place.

 

And when the North Western Hotel was built the Western part of the Lord Nelson building was demolished. At the same time, possibly, the Lord Nelson Building had and extra storey added.

[Steve Hewitt]

Preparing for Utrecht........

 

Our next exhibition - a return visit to Utrecht - is now only six weeks away, so "Operator Training" sessions are in full swing.

All six of us will have up to seven full-day sessions on the railway prior to the show.

 

Today it was Les, Noel and my turn - so John was free to take a few snaps with his iPad:

 

This view under the North Roof shows the LNWR Railmotor in Platform 1 with an L&Y 2-4-2T in Platform 2 at the head of a suburban train.

 

A Newcastle train waits patiently in Platform 4 with a Scot at its head.

 

Looking crowded with a North Wales train in the charge of a Compound in Platform 3.

 

A Waring & Gillow's delivery hurries down the hill towards Lime Street as the Scot waits patiently for the road.

 

One of the station pilots pauses in the "Neck" or head-shunt as the Newcastle train eventually tackles the climb up through the Cutting towards Edge Hill.

 

As the rear of the Newcastle leaves the station, a Crab is being turned ready for its next duty.

 

A little later John has caught this Black 5 held at the Gantry Signals in the cutting prior to coasting down into the station.

(We know the front coupling's missing   )

 

Might try for a bit of video next week.....

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Cyclists day out........

 

Les brought some of his cycling friends for a visit today:

 

 

A bit crowded in the "shed":

 

 

Its a bit short of cyclists on Lime Street:

 

Then, after tea and cakes, the "Grand Depart.......

 

[Les Green]

Cyclists day out........

 

Les brought some of his cycling friends for a visit today:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Made a change from building locos and hotels!