Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[Ray H]

Thanks for both replies.

 

Gordon

 

The planing jig I was was referring to was your home made one for the switch rails. I initially got the impression that there was a shallow groove in the wood's surface into which the rail was placed. I presume from your response that all you actually do is to clamp a piece of rail onto the piece of wood and let the clamp keep the rail secure.

 

I note the reference to 1.6mm sleepers and 1.06 sleepers. If you used the former for all the track could you use the latter for tiebars? Do SMP do copper clad point timber material as well or does that come from C & L?

 

Thanks for all the other comments/responses. I like the idea of the black plasticard and will certainly consider following that up.

 

Martin

 

I'm hopeful that I shall be able to find space for points of nothing less than the equivalent of 2' radius and, if I can negotiate a little more space - see separate thread - the same will apply to the curves. If I'm really lucky the curves might get even bigger.

 

I've managed to sneak a bit of time to look at the Templot website - that must have taken you hours, so thanks for that and, more so, thanks for Templot. I still tend to think in terms of point radiui and wonder wither there is anything anywhere that equates standard size e.g. A5, B4, to radius measurements more specifically so that I can bat around a few figures in my head before I start playing with Templot.

 

I certainly like the look of the 00-SF points.

[gordon s]

Yes, you're right Ray, the planing 'jig' is simply a block of wood with two lines marked on it to show the planing length. I'm not that pedantic to make sure the planing is exactly to that length, it's just a guide for me. Align the end of the rail to the edge of the block and clamp the rail to the block and the block to the bench with a single clamp. I just happen to use a quick release version, but any clamp will do. A half inch wide medium file applied at a slight angle from the vertical and moved in a straight direction along the rail will soon thin the blade down. Once I have 15-20mm of rail filed down to the web, I turn it over and just take the bullhead projections off the other side. A quick clean up on the top and bottom surface edges with a flat needle file will take the rail back to a smooth finish and that's it, job done.

 

I deliberately chose 1.06mm sleepers as they are easy to cut with an old pair of Xuron track cutters. Once cut, I run my finger nail across the cut ends just to make sure there are no slivers that can bridge across the top and bottom surfaces. It's just one more safety check to reduce chances of a short later on. Takes a second or two but could save you hours in the long run.

 

Yes, you could use 1.6mm pcb strip and 1.06mm for the tie bars. The only issue then is supporting the 1.06mm material beneath the rails, which will be 1.6mm from your flat surface. It is possible that solder will wick under the switch rails and solder them to the outer rails if the tie bar is not close to the underside of the switch rail. If this happens don't panic, just apply heat to the outside of the running rail and just as soon as the solder melts, move the tie bar away. I'd normally make a new one at this point as it's quite difficult to remove all traces of solder from the tie bar and stop it happening again.

 

I'm not sure that SMP can supply double pcb strip. The C & L ones are fibre glass, whereas the single sided cut sleepers supplied by SMP appear to be the cheaper paper material board that early TV and radio manufacturers used. It's no problem dealing with two suppliers, although it would probably be ideal just dealing with one. Both give excellent delivery and service performance. (SMP comes from Marcway in Sheffield)

Edited May 26, 2012 by gordon s

[Ray H]

So, just to quickly recap, the rail and point timbers come from C&L, the ordinary (pre-cut to the correct length) track timbers are from SMP? I can certainly see the advantage of using the ready cut sleepers where possible.

 

C&L will be at the Aylesbury show next weekend so I want to get my shopping list sorted. I cobbled together a crude O gauge point a while ago for our club so I think I'll gamble that I should be OK with OO ones and make a bulk order up for collection at the show.

 

I'm off to the Templot site for an afternoon of discovery, learning and entertainment.

[6029 King Stephen]

Gordon,

 

Thank you for showing the order in which you construct your points. I use C&L components but recently have been soldering the V and the wing rails on to strips of PCB to fit between the plastic sleepers and then cut back the strips to the edge of the rails. I then slide the chairs on to the outer parts of the rail on the crossing assembly and fix these to the plastic sleepers using Butanone. I then cut chairs down the centre and place each part on either side of the rail used in the crossing assembly, again fixed with Butanone. I use a C&L slide chair under the V with half a chair on the other side.

 

Following your tip, I start from the crossing assembly and gauge everything from that including the check rails before adding the stock rails. Using a tip from Norman's DVD on track building, I use a spacing gauge of pieces of PCB soldered together to create the space between the V and wing rails and between the check rails and stock rails. For switch blades, I have a bench grinder that I use to file both top and bottom of the bullhead rail on the side that sits alongside the stock rail and to file the top edge of the other side of the switch rail and to form the blunt/rounded end face of the switch blade. For rail gaps, I will be joining these together using C&L plastic fishplates. My first attempt the other day was a success so I shall be building all other points using the same process.

 

For plain track, my preference is to build it from individual components - there is something therapeutic about feeding 50 odd chairs onto a piece of rail (!?!) - and I don't need to cut away any webs between sleepers. I might even try the Iain Rice method of laying the sleepers, ballasting between them and then laying the rails and chairs.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[gordon s]

Glad to have been of some help, Steve. It makes the time spent scribbling a few notes and adding some pics really worthwhile when you read that others have gained some insight into building their own track.

 

Work on ET has slowed considerably just recently. The garden needed a fair bit of work and my koi pond was looking a little neglected. Of course the good weather meant those tasks took priority along with trips to West Wittering to stroll along the beach and let our two dogs have a bit of fun off the lead. Add to that my daughter getting married in 6 weeks time and my time seems to have been pre allocated. I will get going again once the wedding is out of the way and will post some more relevant updates just as soon as work is restarted,

[davidw]

Cheers Gordon - I' ve been meaning to put up some of my photo's of my layout too.

Edited May 30, 2012 by davidw

[gordon s]

I have absolutely no idea how or why it happens, but the last couple of weeks have seen me becalmed in the modelling doldrums. One day you are sailing along and everything is fine, the next, nothing and no matter what you do, the enthusiasm for building a layout just goes out the window. Day after day I promised myself I would do something, but it never happened. I know I'm not the only one this happens to, but really have to admire those of you on RMWeb who just keep going, come what may. Perhaps you can let those of us afflicted ones into your secret....

 

But hey, I got up the other morning and found myself up in my railway room and I actually felt like doing something. Whoopee, some sign of enjoyment once again. First job was to reset the legs on this new board. I must have got my numbers mixed up between the railway room and my workshop and the legs this end were 10mm too long. On reflection that may have been the start of the 'sod this' attitude, but no matter, the legs were trimmed in a few seconds and now the whole lot stands level.

 

The turnouts were built several weeks ago, so now it was just a matter of cutting track to size, forming to the correct curve and sticking down. Not wishing to tempt providence, I limited myself to just and hour or two each day and today the last one went in. Still got the wiring to do, but I am pleased the storage roads are all but complete and I can move onto the next bit which will have some scenery, so that will break up the continual process of track laying.

 

Also been playing around with back scenes and as yet the jury is still out. The plain sky looks a bit chocolate boxy and I'm not sure about the industrial scene. I'll keep experimenting and will come to a decision one day in the future. If anyone has some alternative ideas please don't hesitate to let me know.

 

So next stage will be to get these bits of track wired up and then continue around the top circuit. This will be interesting for me as somehow I need to disguise the entry to the storage roads. First thoughts were the usual tunnel mouth but at this stage it's hard to see how this will fit within the scenic layout and the restrictions that a couple of turnouts will impose. They had to be slid out further than I really wanted to stay outside the 36" minimum radius and now sit somewhere in the area of a previously planned tunnel entrance. The other option would be a low slung bridge of some description that could sit over the pointwork and still provide a scenic break. No matter how well you plan a layout you are always looking at a two dimensional exercise and it's not until the layout really takes shape can you see and understand the impact of such features.

 

So that's the latest update. I'm really hoping the wind will continue to blow and work will progress. Maybe it's a weather/time of the year issue, maybe any job becomes boring if you have too much of it or God forbid, maybe I just get bored easily. Perhaps I should have stuck with kart racing after all....

 

Latest pics from today...

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2012 by gordon s

[chris p bacon]

I have absolutely no idea how or why it happens, but the last couple of weeks have seen me becalmed in the modelling doldrums. One day you are sailing along and everything is fine, the next, nothing and no matter what you do, the enthusiasm for building a layout just goes out the window. Day after day I promised myself I would do something, but it never happened. I know I'm not the only one this happens to, but really have to admire those of you on RMWeb who just keep going, come what may. Perhaps you can let those of us afflicted ones into your secret....

 

 

Funny that, that is what I think of this and the Peterboro North thread, but then some of us have ......work......that gets in the way

[foster104]

Industrial backscene gets my vote behind those warehouses!

[jukebox]

*snip*

Also been playing around with back scenes and as yet the jury is still out. The plain sky looks a bit chocolate boxy and I'm not sure about the industrial scene. I'll keep experimenting and will come to a decision one day in the future. If anyone has some alternative ideas please don't hesitate to let me know.

 

*snip*

 

Hello Gordon;

 

I wonder if a grey, or monochrome toned background may not work better? My thinking is that behind an urban setting, the washed out look of a mid-winter sky may bring more atmosphere, and be more appropriate, than a "field-full-of-buttercups" blue sky with fluffy clouds.

 

FWIW, I like the industrial scene - but not the blue sky that goes with it...

 

Good luck, and I'm sure you'll have a eureka moment that settles it for you.

 

Regards

 

Scott

[trisonic]

Use the Industrial Backscene and then finesse it with a light overcoating of translucent white (not too neat) to imply smoke, mist, pollution (touch of yellow ochre) and general Satanic Mills look! Be subtle...

 

Best, Pete.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Just my view, but the background looks more modern than for a steam-era model. The lighting towers give it a BR Blue-era look rather than steam days.

[Physicsman]

I've jumped into this thread at page 40. Now to start right at the beginning and leisurely work my way through. The whole thing looks superb.

 

Jeff

[Arthur]

Just my view, but the background looks more modern than for a steam-era model. The lighting towers give it a BR Blue-era look rather than steam days.

 

I agree, the buildings have an old urban feel to me, whereas the back scene reminds me more of somewhere like the steelworks at Port Talbot or a modern oil refinery, large industry in a semi rural setting.

[trisonic]

I know what you guys are getting at but Oil Refineries have not changed much since the Fifties and a lot of industrial type towns had abrupt transitions to countryside. General muck and filth of industrial towns were far worse before WW1. I'm not sure what exact year Gordon is aiming at but I assumed late fifties......it is feasible and I know Gordon will never admit to being an artist who could paint his own.

 

Best, Pete.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

But Pete, it just doesn't feel right. I thought Gordon's layout was based on the southern end of the ECML. That type of heavy industry just isn't typical of the Home Counties.

[gordon s]

Thanks for your comments guys and I agree with most of them. The blue sky is just too perfect and happens in the UK only a few days a year. It would suit big sky country settings but not here. The industrial scene is also too modern for the early 60's. I think our hobby is screaming out for 60's industrial backdrops. The few I have seen have been hand drawn and not really up to modern standards. Maybe I have to get my camera out and try and create my own.

 

Thankfully it's all some way in the future but the exercise was certainly food for thought...

[trisonic]

But Pete, it just doesn't feel right. I thought Gordon's layout was based on the southern end of the ECML. That type of heavy industry just isn't typical of the Home Counties.

 

Oh, dear, you never were an Essex lad. I remember my folks taking a (dreaded) Sunday afternoon (Sing Something Simple on Radio) drive around the newly built Shellhaven, BataTown (all within 15 miles of GLC) - I used to hope that when the Russians nuked us they would be the first targets.....

I agree that in that picture it does not look like a refinery...

 

Gordon, maybe the best backscene would be row upon row of grimy grey bricked houses as seen from the rear, I'm thinking Maryland, Forest Gate on the Liverpool Street ex. LNER line, I can imagine the lines out of Kings Cross were much the same for miles - I just never used it as much....

 

Best, Pete.

Edited June 21, 2012 by trisonic

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Hello Pete,

I think Shellhaven was used as a location where they filmed one of the Quatermass films.

 

Anyway, I digress.

 

Still think that landscape looks more like South Wales/South Yorkshire than Southern England. I agree though that house backs would be more typical.

 

From Essex? No, not me. Further up t'north.

[westerner]

I know where you are coming from Pete. After living in Forest Gate for some 28 years.

[S.A.C Martin]

If I may venture an alternative view - is a photographic background absolutely necessary? To me, something in the neutral grey to white behind would do better.

 

I've never really liked photographic backgrounds - accepted, this is just one man's opinion. I personally think it detracts somewhat from the quality of the modelling in front.

[Andy Y]

Thanks for your comments guys and I agree with most of them. The blue sky is just too perfect and happens in the UK only a few days a year. It would suit big sky country settings but not here. The industrial scene is also too modern for the early 60's. I think our hobby is screaming out for 60's industrial backdrops. The few I have seen have been hand drawn and not really up to modern standards. Maybe I have to get my camera out and try and create my own.

 

In complete agreement with you on these thoughts Gordon. There'll be a bit of a how-to from me on MRL tomorrow - https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Features/BRM_Scenery_Special_Your_Timetable/ - which also ties in with the backscene for BCB - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58014-planning-the-backscene-a-view-of-the-bc/ - definitely not chocolate box and I can heartily recommend getting out and finding a potential viewpoint (Ally Pally and look north-eastwards?).

[cromptonnut]

If you aren't able to physically get to a location to have a look for backscene inspiration, I've found that Google Maps satellite view and street view can be quite inspirational. Admittedly if you aren't going for "modern" it may not quite work for you but in many cases the old houses are still there.

 

As Forest Gate was mentioned, the satellite view is here: http://goo.gl/maps/pC1G and the street view gives you an impression of the view from the railway here: http://goo.gl/maps/9FS3

 

Also, have you thought about "drivers eye view" DVD's or Youtube? That might give something useful too.

[Brian D]

Interesting to read the remarks about "industrial" back scenes for the southern end of the ECML. My recollections of steam days trips back up to Durham in the 50s & 60s are that there isn't much industry adjacent to the line this far south. The pit heaps didn't really kick in until the Doncaster area (heading north). What I do remember are the London brickworks around Petreborough and fields full of ex-WW2 vehicles lined up awaiting disposal. It depends on your definition of "southern" I suppose. Plenty of scope for outer suburban London house backs maybe.

I hope this is useful and is in no way meant as criticism. This is really a fantastic layout. Can't wait to see some trains run.

Regards,

Brian.

[gordon s]

Apologies for the late reply, but I've been out most of today enjoying a very pleasant pub lunch in the sunshine, just north of Henley.

 

I see I'm going to get caught out here, so had better put my cards on the table as it were. Almost from birth, we lived in North London and the southern end of the ECML was my old stomping ground and it was natural that the first layout I would build with my new found freedom from work, would be southern ECML based. However, I have always been a fan of Tetleys Mills and loved the look of Dave Shakespeare's retaining walls and Dave very kindly showed me how they were built and I thought "I could do that'.

 

Having produced some retaining walls, I realised that type of stonework was never seen down south (I'm guessing) and this left me in a quandary as to south versus north and the stonework won. Of course this now means that overnight ET moved north by a couple of hundred miles, but then I don't take (or should I say didn't) take my modelling that seriously at the time.

 

This layout has taken several years out of my life and as each day goes by, my views change, something akin to developing the appreciation of good food and fine wine that comes with experience and maturity. This started off as a train set, but hopefully will become a model railway one day in the future.

 

Thanks for the tip about MRL tomorrow Andy. I'll check it out and tune in or whatever is needed to watch. One thing is clear to me and that is there is a huge hole for industrial/city back scenes, ideally from the 60's to go with urban steam/early diesel layouts. OK no one will become a multi millionaire, but they would sell a few no doubt.

 

.....and many thanks for all your feedback and continued interest in this project. It is a long haul and there are peaks and troughs of activity, but the journey has been enjoyable and still has some way to run.

Edited June 25, 2012 by gordon s