ess1uk Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 just wondering what made 47901 so different? is there any truth in the rumour it spent more time in works getting fixed than it did working? would it be easy to model? any one with any pictures of it around Westbury?? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted May 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2011 47 901 was used as a test bed for the Class 58. It's previous Number 47 601 was used as the test bed for the Class 56. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Sadly a loco I never saw As above, it was a test bed for the Class 56 and numbered 47601 It then became the test bed for the engine in the Class 58 and renumbered to 47901 The obvious difference was the roof The bogies were also adapted to include sanding boxes The other cosmetic difference was the sealed beam headlight, making it unique for sometime as the only Class 47 with a headlight I certainly read over the years that it spent more time out of use than in use, which was no surprise for a one-off loco However, this was common once the Class 56 locos started to appear, after which it was pretty much just used as any other freight loco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted May 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2011 It was more powerful than a standard 47 due to the different engine. As regards a model, the roof was non standard. I would not seeing some pictures of it myself, its another loco on my "to do" list but I do not have the photos I would need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
(The) Youth Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Had a non standard headlight aswell on the right hand side (when looking head on) below the tail light HTH Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mcowgill Posted May 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2011 Here's a photograph I took of it running light engine through Westbury station in early 1986. You can see the sandbox at the outer end of the bogie and the sealed beam headlamp under the nearer tail lamp. Unfortunately I don't have any photos showing the roof detail but there are a few here on the Class 47 site. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 The roof changed several times. I've got some drawings I made somewhere of the final form of it if people need them. Not necessarily definitive but I've never seen a definitive set anywhere. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Here's a photograph I took of it running light engine through Westbury station in early 1986. You can see the sandbox at the outer end of the bogie and the sealed beam headlamp under the nearer tail lamp. Unfortunately I don't have any photos showing the roof detail but there are a few here on the Class 47 site. Martin Great photo, Martin, cheers! Subtle weathering, red buffer-beams, and retaining its original (EDIT) BR Crewe builder's plate. Lovely! You can see straight away from this the major visual difference from a linesiding angle, but it is subtle - the full length cantrail grilles. Also the sealed beam headlights are set wider apart than the norm. I recall this was a very early recipient of that headcode treatment, so that might have had something to do with it. EDIT: just noticed what looks like an additional vent above the cab door, a la Class 24. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Was it airbrake only as 47 901 or as 601 too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Hmmmmm, I was wondering whether to mention that James! I reckon she went 'aos' as 601. I've relevant bibles in the garage, and as I'm heading out to my corner of Liliput in a min, I'll check EDIT: Darnit, earliest I can lay my hands on is 1981 when she's already 901, and obviously 'aos' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted May 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2011 some pics as 47 601 at http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_gallery.php?index=3&jndex=0&kndex=0&s_loco=47601 from the pics where at least part of the buffer beam can be seen, it's perhaps not definite, but i can't see a vacuum brake pipe. this would be placed just to the right of the left-hand main-reservoir pipe and curve round in a semi-circle, but i cant see any sign of it. the sealed beam marker lights seem to be in the standard position of dominos/opaque glasses, but (thanks to CHARD), i'd never noticed the cantrail grilles before! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Just a random plated headcode shot, but - and I agree it's fractional - this loco is what I remember as having standard sealed beam headlights. Just gauging their position from relative proportions in that arrangement, I still think 47901 had them fractionally closer to the ends of the panel. Maybe by not more than 50mm, but definitely nearer the ends. 901 the distance from the lamp to the end is a shade less than the diameter of the lamp. In the other shot the distance is equal to the lamp's diameter. http://www.class47.c...g=0999000627000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 wow, thanks for so many replies in such a short time. remember seeing it as a kid round Westbury on a freight but couldn't think why it was such a big deal is their a kit for it? what manufacturers model would be best to adapt? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 wow, thanks for so many replies in such a short time. .... .... what manufacturers model would be best to adapt? Behold the wonders of RMWeb Your last question is now guaranteed to begin a heated debate between the respective Bachmann vs ViTrains vs Heljan camps, plus the 'Lima's/ Hornby's old body rewards careful detailing and modification' crew. EDIT: See post immediately below this for proof And each of these methods will get you a respectable result. It really depends how much work you wish to or feel able to do, and what compromises you're prepared to accept. Discounting Lima and Hornby as having crude mechanisms, not to mention intolerable shape issues, you're left with Bachmann, Heljan and ViTrains. The latter is thought by many as having the better overall shape; however it comes with a lorry-load of detail parts that you have to fit yourself, and it features the class in its later years, with the buffer beam cowl area cut away. Heljan's so-called Tubby Duff is a fraction too wide, but is in every other respect a great basis for a model, its mechanism being exceptional. Otherwise, it's worth thinking about using Bachmann's 47035 as a basis, this has welded headcode panels and buffer beam cowls. A quick search on here or the previous, archived, version of RMWeb should produce several threads debating the relative merits and shortcomings of the various options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Hi chard What do you mean intolerable shape issues? The Hornby duff despite being crude in it's detail is still considered onne of the best for body shape. The lima model looks much more like a 47 than the Heljan one ever has and is also better than the original Bachmann one. The hejlan mech draws huge amounts of power (try double heading them on dc and they will probably trip your controller). The vitrains model does come with original cowls and with such drastic surgery required to the roof and a full repaint why complain about the separate detail when you'd have to take it all off anyway? Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Hi Jim, that caused me the wryest of smiles! I've no axe to grind on any of the 47s, hence my post being peppered with disclaimers. My principal failing was taking insufficient time to find a couple of links to the Great Duff Shape Debates of yore. The last thing I wanted to do was reopen that particular vulture-fest in a thread dedicated specifically to the unique details of 47901. Penguin of Doom and James Wells (I think) have both demonstrated recently what wonders can be achieved with the cruder older bodyshells, for a great deal of modelling satisfaction, and fairly substantial effort. The newer alternatives come with grilles, fans, lights etc and therefore many would consider you're starting at much more advanced baseline no matter which one you choose. What we don't know of the OP, and to which I alluded in my previous post, is how much effort he wants to make and what compromises he's prepared to accept. Not to mention what his budget is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Hi all From memory 47601 / 47901's headlight was not unique. I'm sure there was at least one other 47 with a similar fitting, as well as a handful of 86s. The 47/4 was a low numbered one, but just doesn't jump out at me at the moment. IIRC the loco was substantially rebuilt from crash damaged 47046, with a lot of internal alterations. I doubt it would have retained vacuum brakes after rebuilding but would be willing to be proved wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Just to confirm suspicions above, the Platform 5 book from winter 79 lists 47601 as air brake only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 i actually have an old battered Hornby 47 lying around that i thought i might use for this. as it is a very old model and didn't cost me anything it is ideal as a trial (not sure if the motor is any good, but could model it dumped failed in a siding! ) any ideas of kits to do it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 From memory 47601 / 47901's headlight was not unique It was a requirement that electric locos capable of 110mph or more, and diesel-electric locos capable of 100mph or more, had a headlight At the time this was just the Class 47/6, 47/7, 86/1, 87/0, 87/1 locos and HST power cars A number of Class 86/2 were later also fitted, as they were uprated to 110mph Sadly Platform 5 didn't record specific locos with headlights prior to 1985 Also by 1989 they were standard Therefore if someone with books between 1985 and 1988 could examine the headlight, l, we should therefore be able to work out which other Class 47 had a headlight The headlight design is known as a sealed beam headlight However, I cannot recall any other Class 47 having this type Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Penguin of Doom and James Wells (I think) have both demonstrated recently what wonders can be achieved with the cruder older bodyshells, for a great deal of modelling satisfaction, and fairly substantial effort. Clicky The newer alternatives come with grilles, fans, lights etc and therefore many would consider you're starting at much more advanced baseline no matter which one you choose. Not wishing to start or fuel a debate but the Lima body is far from crude - the grilles and roof detail is wonderfully subtle! Of course to model 47 901 all this would be lost! The Hornby body, with work, can make an amazing model. Have a look here at Peter Johnson's models using the Hornby body as a basis. But he is a modelling god though I'm sure some of us mere mortals could get somewhere near! Things like lights, grilles, fans etc would all be replaced in my case in the case of all 47s on the market so the Lima model doesn't cost any time here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I'm sure there was an article in the railway Modeller about 20 years ago which covered modelling 47901. Possibly by the late L S Vass and also covering 47401 and Lion all in one article? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Didn't A1 do an etched roof panel for 47601 or is my memory playing tricks on me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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