Any Question Answered

[Kris]

There would be no need to adjust the pin point axles if you got the wheels turned down as the axle length is not altered during the turning process.

[Armchair Modeller]

There would be no need to adjust the pin point axles if you got the wheels turned down as the axle length is not altered during the turning process.

Sorry - I had read somewhere that the modern Farish DMUs had half-axles, so the axle stubs had to be moved in on the wheels to give the correct gauge and total axle length. I must be getting confused - apologies for any inconvenience caused!

 

EDIT

 

In my defence, the article I was thinking of was Mick Simpson's on the NEAG blog about converting a 108. In this he describes the unpowered axles as half-axles. From what you are saying Kris, this is not a concern with the 150.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Armchair Modeller

[Kris]

The geared axles on the 108 are a fixed length (I don't have a 150 but would assume that this would be the same case on that one). The other axles are on stubs. From memory these came set to the the correct length when I had them turned down (I didn't wait for the conversion wheels to come out). On the 108 there were a couple of small plastic stubs on the inside of the bogies that needed removing to allow the wheels to fit.

If you do find the wheels need to be reset to the correct width once they have been turned down, then using the back to back gauges (Either 2-048 or 3-272) will soon sort you out.

[Armchair Modeller]

Thanks for that clarification. Having seen some replacement wheelsets for Farish locos, I would feel much happier if replacement wheels were available for a direct swap. I think maybe I should go back an era or two, so that I can use these wheels. Does anyone know if the replacement wheelsets for the Farish 108 also fit the new 101?

[2mm Andy]

Does anyone know if the replacement wheelsets for the Farish 108 also fit the new 101?

 

Yes - they do. I have converted one using the drop-in wheels and it runs very well.

 

Going back to the 2nd generation DMUs, the pinpoints can be adjusted on the wheels - I had that done when I sent the wheels away for my hymek. The Farish 158 seems to have a poor reputation - the 2mm beginners guide (which I am currently revising) advises that the mechanism wasn't one of Farish's best. I don't know if Bachmann revised the design when they took over the range from Farish.

 

Andy

[Tequila Sunrise]

The old Farish chassis for the 158 was very unreliable - so much so that surely there can be few left in working order(?) I remember the plastic bearings in the gear train melting if they ran for more than a few metres. Bachmann continued to use the same design for early Chinese-built models.

 

They eventually revised the 158 chassis around the time they introduced the 170. I think both have basically the same design. It is a solid and reliable hunk of metal these days - totally different to the 108 and 101 though. Just a shame the 158 body was never upgraded too - it looks very toy-like compared with more recent offerings.

[Kris]

The old Farish chassis for the 158 was very unreliable - so much so that surely there can be few left in working order(?) I remember the plastic bearings in the gear train melting if they ran for more than a few metres. Bachmann continued to use the same design for early Chinese-built models.

 

You appear to have had the opposite experience to me. The chassis in both of my examples gave me no problems at all, even with prolonged running at speed. Both of my examples still run. As with all other Farish models of that time I did have issues with the gears splitting.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Now I come to think of it a little deeper, I think I am getting mixed up with the old 101s with 8-wheel drive.

 

I do seem to remember the springs on the transmission fracturing on 158s though.

[Nigelcliffe]

There is recent discussion in the wheel design team (*) about doing 2FS split-axle wheelsets for the Farish 150x series and also to take another look at the Dapol mechanisms (150-series and 121 bubble-car). I guess we should also check any other multiple units which have appeared (I recall mention of EMU's somewhere).

 

To produce any design for replacement wheels, we will need to borrow examples of the models so we can accurately measure things; ideally known good runners which have not been subjected to any modifications or any minor knocks to drive area. Making replacement wheels usually involves ordering a batch of several thousand CNC turned parts, so if a single solution will fit many models it is more likely to be produced than something which only fits one type (which is probably totally uneconomic).

 

Thanks for the confirmation that the Farish 108 and new 101 are identical, that means the 101 can be crossed off my list.

 

 

(* wheel design team = 1.5 people, I'm the 0.5 who prods things occaisionally. One other person does the actual hard work, along with designing and making dozens of other Association components. And he'd quite like to finish his layout ! ).

 

 

- Nigel

[Tequila Sunrise]

The big problem I see with doing replacement wheelsets for recent DMUs - particularly Dapol - is that they seem so ephemeral. By the time you read a review in a magazine and decide to buy, many have already sold out - forever. I don't know if Dapol are using common components in N scale. My friends who buy Dapol 4mm products say they seem to invent new, non-standard solutions for each model they produce. This makes conversion to P4 particularly difficult (except for the Sentinel shunter, anyway). Sending the wheels off to be turned down to 2mm standards may be the only practical option in 2mm scale.

 

Anyways, all of this talk about modern DMUs is getting me drooling. Any chance someone could come up with a totally different question to be answered? Otherwise I might turn into a "Thoroughly Modern 2Millie" myself. (With apologies for the reference to the very cringeworthy, late 1960s Julie Andrews musical)

[Armchair Modeller]

Yes - they do. I have converted one using the drop-in wheels and it runs very well.

 

Going back to the 2nd generation DMUs, the pinpoints can be adjusted on the wheels - I had that done when I sent the wheels away for my hymek. The Farish 158 seems to have a poor reputation - the 2mm beginners guide (which I am currently revising) advises that the mechanism wasn't one of Farish's best. I don't know if Bachmann revised the design when they took over the range from Farish.

 

Andy

 

Thank you for the reply.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Armchair Modeller

[Izzy]

_{This is a first generation chinese chassis i.e. post Poole but pre the current can motor/ DCC ready era. I would hazard a guess that the 101/108 DMU 6mm geared drop-in-wheels will fit. The trailer could be another matter. As it's pre DCC ready model with no lights the wheels may be simple pin-points as they don't collect current. Ordinary 6mm disc will thus do, though what axle length you will need to be found by measuring the current ones. Probably 15.2mm but might be less.}

 

_Izzy.

[Armchair Modeller]

_{This is a first generation chinese chassis i.e. post Poole but pre the current can motor/ DCC ready era. I would hazard a guess that the 101/108 DMU 6mm geared drop-in-wheels will fit. The trailer could be another matter. As it's pre DCC ready model with no lights the wheels may be simple pin-points as they don't collect current. Ordinary 6mm disc will thus do, though what axle length you will need to be found by measuring the current ones. Probably 15.2mm but might be less.}

 

_Izzy.

Thank you. Yes, the trailer wheels are on 15.2mm axles. I need to check if the bogie sides are set at the correct distance apart before I buy though. Unlike later DMUs there is a lot of work required to make these look less like toys!

[DavidLong]

I don't know if Dapol are using common components in N scale. My friends who buy Dapol 4mm products say they seem to invent new, non-standard solutions for each model they produce. This makes conversion to P4 particularly difficult (except for the Sentinel shunter, anyway). Sending the wheels off to be turned down to 2mm standards may be the only practical option in 2mm scale.

 

This has been one of the problems for the aforementioned 'wheel design team' and has been just as much a difficulty in N as it appears to be in 4mm scale. Bachmann have been mostly more reliable in using standard components and hence it has been worthwhile in producing the replacement wheelsets which will then fit a number of designs. It is to be hoped that Dapol may have adopted a now-standard design for their multple units but one would need to examine an example of each to be certain.

 

David

[Chris Higgs]

The big problem I see with doing replacement wheelsets for recent DMUs - particularly Dapol - is that they seem so ephemeral. By the time you read a review in a magazine and decide to buy, many have already sold out - forever. I don't know if Dapol are using common components in N scale. My friends who buy Dapol 4mm products say they seem to invent new, non-standard solutions for each model they produce. This makes conversion to P4 particularly difficult (except for the Sentinel shunter, anyway). Sending the wheels off to be turned down to 2mm standards may be the only practical option in 2mm scale.

 

Dapol use three different factories, and I suspect this lies at the bottom of what we see. I suspect the factories tell Dapol how the design details will be, rather than the other way around. And if when you come back for more there is no capacity to make it , that's the end of it.

 

I was quite disappointed by my Dapol 121 which everyone seemed to be raving about. It's bogies sideframes are way more chunky than they need to be. And the windows have a far more prismatic effect than other manufacturers seem to manage.

 

Bachmann on the other hand own a factory as I understand it.

 

Chris

 

P.S: I am very happy with may latest modern EMU though, an 8 car unit manufactured by Hornby in N. I will leave you to work that out.

[Nigelcliffe]

 

P.S: I am very happy with may latest modern EMU though, an 8 car unit manufactured by Hornby in N. I will leave you to work that out.

 

I'm sure it will look very nice alongside a Kato class 66.

 

Nigel

[Armchair Modeller]

P.S: I am very happy with may latest modern EMU though, an 8 car unit manufactured by Hornby in N. I will leave you to work that out.

plenty of ICE around at this time of year?

[Etched Pixels]

Bachmann on the other hand own a factory as I understand it.

The factory owns Bachmann !

Edited February 17, 2012 by Etched Pixels

[richbrummitt]

That sounds more likely. We work with an injection mould tool company in China. They got very lucky acquiring their factory because they managed to go joint with a Chinese investor who after a year or so let them buy him out. My understanding is that unless you are Chinese it is difficult or impossible to acquire premises for this type of work. Recently we were looking to have a tool modified but it would have to have been shipped through Hong Kong or otherwise under the radar because they will not let you import used mould tools!

[Gingerbread]

Looks like Kader is the Chinese company which owns Bachmann.

See the Bachmann side of the story here, and the Kader side here.

 

David

[RichardJones]

Here's a nice simple question - what's the diameter of Association buffer shanks, or rather what size hole do I need in my buffer beam?

[Steve Sykes]

If you'te talking about wagon buffers, 0.8mm works for me.

[RichardJones]

oops, meant loco although the wagon measurement will also be useful!

[Steve Sykes]

OK then, sticking the calipers on the two sets of loco buffers to hand suggests 1mm should do the trick, possibly with a little reaming out. One set was 1mm spot on, the other a little over, 1.05-1.1mm.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Steve Sykes

[RichardJones]

That'll do nicely, much appreciated. That's the artwork for my Cambrian 2-4-0T finished. (Unless I've missed something of course!)