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Tornado takes to the rails


Andy Y
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Ste234 & Dave.

 

Out of interest, have you tried running just the tender on it's own? Just wondering if the performance is a result of a problem with the engine or if it's mechanism related.

 

Tom.

 

Not yet, I will try it when I get a chance before it goes back. Unfortunately I'm away all weekend so It might be after that...

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"My N test track consist of the peco starter set, which admittedly uses 1st radius curves (and the notes with the loco say 2nd radius minimum....) but, even on the straights the tender wheels spin trying to get the thing to move. It simply won't move unless you give it some revs.

 

The wheels on the loco have resistance when turned by hand, and yes, the middle and trailing coupled wheels are eccentric, accentuated by the white lining on them against the black background of the loco frame. I know someone who had the same with the Bachmann OO version, and can't believe that they've successfully scaled this down....... :nono:"

 

Just checked one of mine (I now have two ;-) ). There is slight resistance on the coupled wheels but not much. I think a good running in is all that is required to free them up. i would be more concerned about issues of concentricity. Neither of mine have any "wobble" at all, they are rock steady. Is it the wheels or the lining on the rim being off centre giving an illusion of a lack of concentricity - does the loco wobble as it goes along the track?

 

 

"The thing runs better backwards, but that's pretty pointless. Running forwards, its stiff and seems to not be square on the rails. All the wheels are on the track properly, but the stiff push that the tender is having to give must be using up all the slop in the flanges and the loco is going skew-whiff as a result,"

 

 

 

If it doesn't free up with running in I'd definitely send it back, No good having a big Pacific you can only run backwards :nono: .

 

 

 

"Its a lovely thing to look at, but thoroughly useless as a source of motive power. Sorry if I'm not toeing the line, but Its the most expensive N loco I've bought, and also the worst runner. Its nice to have all this detail, but have they forgotten to make it move properly ?"

 

 

 

 

I think you are entitled to call it how you find. I think it is such a shame that these QC issues persist and it is frustrating because both of mine are not just stunning lookers but excellent performers too.

 

 

 

 

"In fact, I'm intrigued as to why they've included traction tyres. Is this an admission of a problem ? Surely, as supplied, the model should be capable of moving itself, and mine won't even do that without difficulty. Why should I fit the tyres myself to make it work ? What are the warranty implications of swapping the axles over ?"

 

 

No implication for warranty I'd have thought as they supply different axles for the owner to change.Traction tyres is not an admission of a problem. It is common (indeed normal) on tender-drives of all persuasions from Farish to Union Mills and Fleischmann. Farish give you a spare tyred and non-tyred wheelset so that you can decide the level of trade-off between pick up footprint (None or one axle tyred) to haulage (Two axles tyred).

 

 

 

"Ok, it may be a one off, but I don't think I'm unique here."

 

 

 

Probably not a one-off but that's not a consolation I'm sure. If you cant get it running right I'd send it back although sadly you will possibly have to wait for the sea-shipment to arrive now for a replacement.

 

Regards

 

Roy

Edited by Roy L S
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Ok, it may be a one off, but I don't think I'm unique here.

 

Dave I have the same problem, I replaced the extra tender drive wheel with the one with the traction tire but it hasn't helped. There appears to be a slight bind when turning the locomotive driving wheels by hand, just enough to cause wheelspin on the tender and lumpy running at slow speed. Mine is also going back to the shop.

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Dave I have the same problem, I replaced the extra tender drive wheel with the one with the traction tire but it hasn't helped.

 

Which wheelset did you replace? You'll get the best improvement if the rear two wheelsets are the ones with traction tyres fitted.

 

My 60147 bearly notices 15 coaches in this configuration. I've yet to test it's slipping point, but I suspect over 20 coaches will easily be possible.

 

Cheers,

Alan

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Which wheelset did you replace? You'll get the best improvement if the rear two wheelsets are the ones with traction tyres fitted.

 

My 60147 bearly notices 15 coaches in this configuration. I've yet to test it's slipping point, but I suspect over 20 coaches will easily be possible.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

From the cab Tyre - Plain - Tyre - Plain, this was running light but when running slowly the motor doesn't have enough ompf to get over the slight bind for it to run without stuttering, it seems when turning by hand in a certain part of the motion that the driving wheel closest to the cab binds and twists and if I do it gently I can get it to lock up in certain circumstances.

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From the cab Tyre - Plain - Tyre - Plain, this was running light but when running slowly the motor doesn't have enough ompf to get over the slight bind for it to run without stuttering, it seems when turning by hand in a certain part of the motion that the driving wheel closest to the cab binds and twists and if I do it gently I can get it to lock up in certain circumstances.

 

Put the tyred wheels on the rear two sets - this works better as there are guaranteed to be tyred wheels in good contact with the track (as you have it the tender could easily have more of its weight being supported by the untyred wheels). When you couple a train the dead weight behind will also push the rear two sets onto the track, aiding adhesion. Make sure the phosphor bearings are pushed correctly into the tender so all wheels make contact.

 

Turning wheels by hand is pointless....I can make mine lock up doing this, but it's totally free on track. So it's better to disconnect the tender and roll along by hand, without pressing down on the loco. When you find the tight spot examine the valve gear at this position for parts catching or stiff, or slightly bent - this is almost certainly the cause.

 

Regards,

Alan

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Put the tyred wheels on the rear two sets - this works better as there are guaranteed to be tyred wheels in good contact with the track (as you have it the tender could easily have more of its weight being supported by the untyred wheels). When you couple a train the dead weight behind will also push the rear two sets onto the track, aiding adhesion. Make sure the phosphor bearings are pushed correctly into the tender so all wheels make contact.

 

Turning wheels by hand is pointless....I can make mine lock up doing this, but it's totally free on track. So it's better to disconnect the tender and roll along by hand, without pressing down on the loco. When you find the tight spot examine the valve gear at this position for parts catching or stiff, or slightly bent - this is almost certainly the cause.

 

Regards,

Alan

Might be a stupid question but how do I uncouple the tender?

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Might be a stupid question but how do I uncouple the tender?

 

Use a fine screwdriver to lift the contact wires on the drawbar over the little lip on the peg on the tender. Do this gently so as not to damage the peg casting.

 

Regards,

Alan

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Just to illustrate what Alan says, arrow one are the contact wires which can be gently prised over the top of the locating peg, or alternatively you can unclip the retaining clip, 2, which releases the tightness of the contact wires and should allow you just to lift the loco away from the tender.

 

18SEP11-002b.jpg

 

Tom.

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Just replying to this thread....

 

Gentlemen, all these adjustments are all well and good, but no-one should have to do this to a brand new model. It should work, or else it gets returned. Mine has gone back, and I'm happy to wait for one from another batch.

 

If you are feeling brave, then by all means tackle the above mods, but what happens if you cock it up in the process, and damage it ? I managed to lift the tender gently off the rails whilst pushing the loco along, and it seemed to have three points where the driving wheels met resistance, and would slide along the rails before freeing and revolving again. Should I risk fiddling with the valve gear with the risk of consequential damage - and then try and return a damaged model to the retailer ?

 

Why not build the models with the traction tyres on, and let those who don't want them put the plain wheels on ? After all, the loco does have a surfeit of pickups anyway.

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Why not build the models with the traction tyres on, and let those who don't want them put the plain wheels on ? After all, the loco does have a surfeit of pickups anyway.

 

But how is that any different to having the normal wheelsets fitted, factory standard and then fitting the traction tyred sets later...?

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Just to illustrate what Alan says, arrow one are the contact wires which can be gently prised over the top of the locating peg, or alternatively you can unclip the retaining clip, 2, which releases the tightness of the contact wires and should allow you just to lift the loco away from the tender.

 

Tom.

 

Thanks to Tom and Alan for the information, the problem appears to be in the tender drive with stiff gearing, I have oiled but its not getting any better after running in and sometimes locks up even when traveling quite fast with the motor buzzing away.

 

Dave is right however that for a model costing over £100 it should work without the customer having to fiddle with it so I am taking it back to the shop.

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I've just bought a 'Tornado' as a snap purchase whilst on a business trip, Hattons not having them shown in stock yet, and then read this thread with increasing fears on the train back to London.

 

Sure enough, I have the same problem. Driving wheels are either eccentric or not painted right, the loco is 'nosing' slightly and the wheels are locking at top front angle, right hand side, whether on straight or curved track and in both directions. When they do lock, the tender is incapable of maintaining progress, even light engine. 15 minutes of running in and it's got worse if anything.

 

I really didn't have the money to spare this month but since everything seems to essentially be a limited edition these days, I dug deep so my son could have one to enjoy. Instead, we have yet another loco which has failed even to make it through running-in.

 

Anyone got experience of taking things back to the Ian Allan shops? I bought it in Birmingham but I live in London, so could do with taking it back to Waterloo.

 

More to the point, can anyone give me any faith in the Tornado batch? The good news seems to be coming from people with the BR editions...

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It could be in the painting of the rim, but the middle driver looks like it is reciprocating between the other two - when it is turning!

 

Have lifted the tender off the rails and run it, and it sounds silky smooth, so the vibrations I am hearing must be wheelslip, which, given that I'm trying to run it light engine, is a bit much! It's just got the one tyre on as per boxed condition.

 

Off the track, there are definite tight spots in the motion of the wheels, but also a heck of a lot of slop in the whole setup. I suppose it could even be quartering related?

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Hmm I'm beginning to wonder now...

Mine has had a few more runs back and forth on my layout (as I ripped up one corner to make a full circle but haven't re-laid it yet!) and it doesn't seem as bad as it originally was. It only slips on one particular place on my track, so I think my track may be partially at fault. Even where the baseboard has warped into a slight gradient it will move off easily!

 

I might try it with a few old Lima coaches...

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I've just bought a 'Tornado' as a snap purchase whilst on a business trip, Hattons not having them shown in stock yet, and then read this thread with increasing fears on the train back to London.

 

Sure enough, I have the same problem. Driving wheels are either eccentric or not painted right, the loco is 'nosing' slightly and the wheels are locking at top front angle, right hand side, whether on straight or curved track and in both directions. When they do lock, the tender is incapable of maintaining progress, even light engine. 15 minutes of running in and it's got worse if anything.

 

I really didn't have the money to spare this month but since everything seems to essentially be a limited edition these days, I dug deep so my son could have one to enjoy. Instead, we have yet another loco which has failed even to make it through running-in.

 

Anyone got experience of taking things back to the Ian Allan shops? I bought it in Birmingham but I live in London, so could do with taking it back to Waterloo.

 

More to the point, can anyone give me any faith in the Tornado batch? The good news seems to be coming from people with the BR editions...

 

 

It seems notable that for some reason those who have reported issues with poor running A1;s all appear to have models of "Tornado" I cannot recall one report of a duff BR one?

 

I can only repeat that from the box both my BR A1's ran and continue to run beautifully and pull very acceptably no tweaking messing or fettling being required.

 

Roy.

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Could some of you helpful people out there do me a favour...?

 

Remove the cover that exposes the Tender's axles and gears etc, and remove the rear two wheel sets.

take a very fine screwdriver (or something as delicate) and try and turn the gears inside the tender, do they move quite freely?

 

If so, then it's not just me, but I have a suspicion that gear may not be meshing properly... :(

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Could some of you helpful people out there do me a favour...?

 

Remove the cover that exposes the Tender's axles and gears etc, and remove the rear two wheel sets.

take a very fine screwdriver (or something as delicate) and try and turn the gears inside the tender, do they move quite freely?

 

If so, then it's not just me, but I have a suspicion that gear may not be meshing properly... :(

 

I did something similar to this when poking about with my BR example (not anything wrong with it, but I had opened it up to see how sticky the lubricant they'd used was and whether it looked like it would benefit from cleaning out!).

 

As such there appeared to be a bit of stiction from the lubricant (though not as much as on other models) and the gears were relatively free.

 

Check for small bits of flash or moulding pips on yours, and try swapping the gears about to see if you can identify which one it is.

 

Regards,

Alan

 

EDIT - I should say I removed all the wheelsets and one half of the chassis to do this, this exposes the motor and 3 banks of independent gears (3 small at rear, 3 small at front and a few centrally that transmit the motion to everything) that can be checked in turn.

Edited by Dr Al
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Hello all,

 

Obviously I'm sorry to hear of the bad experiences that some have had with their Tornados; FWIW my one ran faultlessly through two days of heavy exhibition use on Horseley Fields at Model Rail live this weekend.

 

It's one of only two steam engines I own, and while the slow speed running may not be quite as good as a diesel it is more than acceptable and I'm very happy with it.

 

I just need to give it some very light weathering now...

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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Blast - Ian Allan at Waterloo are out of stock already. So - do I try and fix it, or take a refund and hope I can get hold of one from another source which turns out to be ok?

 

Particularly if it's quartering related, not sure I have the means to sort it...

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Hard to say whether the wheels are concentric or not - it could just be the lining (which looks odd enough on one side!) and the fact that it's reasonably stable when the wheels are turning suggests valve gear or quartering as the most likely causes of what on mine is a tight spot in the same place every revolution. With supplies seemingly short I am wondering whether to ask the retailer to return it to Farish, or open it up myself, as an alternative to taking it back to a retailer who at best will have others produced minutes apart from it...

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Hmm, finally got the loop relaid, so I can do laps now... and after leaving it for an half hour or so running, it seems to be fine! Infact, it will pull about 7 lima coaches, 7 farish Mk4's, 12 PCA wagons, 3 Dapol Mk3's, and 4 Farish container flats and a dummy 67... all in one large go!

 

without a single slip! I have moved the traction tyres to the back two axles, I think that may have solved it... along with a bit extra running in

 

 

If you one believes me I have video evidence!

 

It sounds a bit harsh in reverse though...

 

Cheers,

A much Bewildered,

Ste

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post-7607-0-80095500-1316638328_thumb.jpg

post-7607-0-65842900-1316638491_thumb.jpg

 

Sorry about the poor photos but it's the best my camera can manage.

 

Received mine today and tested it at the club tonight. Thoroughly impressed by the looks and running of this model. Too good to be true? You bet! My good friend Ian (Silverlink) was impressed as well, until he spotted a minor error.

Great Central....correct.

Riveted tender....correct.

Running number....60147 (North Eastern) Oh dear (Should be 60156)

 

My supplier will be informed, but having read about some of the problems with other A1s I'm loath to part with my excellent runner in case I receive a dud as a replacement.

 

I'll let you know what happens.

 

Mike

 

Edited to read "North Eastern" rather than "Great Eastern" which was mistakenly written.

Edited by Mike J
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Hi Mike

 

That appears a bit odd.

 

My 60147 Is "North Eastern" but this release should have the early crest yours has late?

 

My Great Central is correctly numbered 60156 with the Late Crest as advertised.

 

Both show correctly on the Hattons Website too..

 

What have you got there? Sounds like a mix of both models. Out of curiosity is the nameplate the tampo-printed one or etched one? It should come with the printed one.

 

Regards

 

Roy

Edited by Roy L S
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