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iL Dottore

iD's 3 Axle GWR Siphon: Now Fully Completed

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Progress IS being made and I am now at the point where I can start on the chassis...

 

Now I have the Mainly Trains detailing fret for things such as coupling eye plates, strapping and rivet strips, but I am recycling some suitable plastic buffers and do not have any buffer mounting plates (unfortunately, I do not have any suitable white metal/sprung buffers - just GWR coach buffers [hopefully, the Stationmaster can tell me that the O 4 Diagramme Siphon sometimes did carry coach buffers??????]). Any ideas how to replicate them?

 

Photos to come soon...

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It all depends on what you mean by a GWR coach buffer. Most photos of O4s show them to have been fitted with something like the buffers on this coach at Didcot:

 

post-6746-0-65915100-1338824472.jpg

 

This is quite similar to the ones sold by Dart Castings (MJT) as "fitted wagon buffers". They also do an earlier type of coach buffer with a round base, listed as "GWR 2ft Coach wagon buffers". The latter type appear to have been the normal fitting on O2 and O3 siphons. They also do a sprung version of the latter. See also Lanarkshire Models B021.

 

Nick

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Thanks for the help, Nick, I've ordered the buffers from dart Castings

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Only just caught up with this thread but it sent me off to the magazine cupboard to dig out my copy of the February 1962 Railway Modeller (was I really only 10 when I bought it. . . ?). The cover of the magazine is dominated by GWR 0-4-2T 4822 which is coupled to a six-wheel Siphon, although only about a third of it is in shot. It features in a distant end-on shot in the article on the layout 'Portreath' from the West Herts EM Gauge group, the article being penned by a certain R.J. Essery. The Siphon was from a kit produced by Messrs K's (N & K C Keyser) and decorated many a Great Western layout of the 1960s. I suspect that like all the other kits by K's it was a fairly sturdy job in whitemetal. What I would be intrigued to know, after the discussions on this thread, was what form the underframe took in order to get it around corners. No fancy etched Cleminsons and the like in 1962, so did it just rely on the generosity of the 00 wheels of the period to accomplish the task? I wonder if there is anyone on RM Web who may have or have had one of these to let us into the secret.

Anyway iD this is looking to be a fine piece of modelling of an unusual prototype.

 

David

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David,

 

I have three of them. The earlier ones had white metal castings for the solebars, W-irons, springs etc. whereas later ones were plastic. The bodies on all of mine are plastic. I don't have any instructions, but there appears to be no particular allowance for getting around curves. Just like most K's tenders, really.

 

Nick

 

edit: ps. to build them, I use a method recommended by Bill Bedford. The wheels are mounted on a piece of 2mm o/d, 1mm i/d tube which slides on a 1mm pinpoint axle. Similar effect to Peter's method below.

Edited by buffalo

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Only just caught up with this thread but it sent me off to the magazine cupboard to dig out my copy of the February 1962 Railway Modeller (was I really only 10 when I bought it. . . ?). The cover of the magazine is dominated by GWR 0-4-2T 4822 which is coupled to a six-wheel Siphon, although only about a third of it is in shot. It features in a distant end-on shot in the article on the layout 'Portreath' from the West Herts EM Gauge group, the article being penned by a certain R.J. Essery. The Siphon was from a kit produced by Messrs K's (N & K C Keyser) and decorated many a Great Western layout of the 1960s. I suspect that like all the other kits by K's it was a fairly sturdy job in whitemetal. What I would be intrigued to know, after the discussions on this thread, was what form the underframe took in order to get it around corners. No fancy etched Cleminsons and the like in 1962, so did it just rely on the generosity of the 00 wheels of the period to accomplish the task? I wonder if there is anyone on RM Web who may have or have had one of these to let us into the secret.

Anyway iD this is looking to be a fine piece of modelling of an unusual prototype.

 

David

From what I can remember of the one I built the guard irons were all fixed. On mine I made the end axles slop free, and the middle one ran in top hats rather than pinpoint, this gave more than enough movement. I still do similar now with 6 wheeled stock.

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Nick, Peter,

 

Nice to know that the venerable K's kits are alive and well and still doing the job they were designed for. And all the way from humble NW10 to deepest Brazil! Interested to read that the body was in plastic as, apart from Airfix and Ratio, there weren't that many kits in that medium in the early 1960s. This is especially the case with K's who I understood used whitemetal for almost everything.

 

David

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David

The first ones were cast in whitemetal, I think it was much later the change to plastic, they did others too, I know the 4 wheeled SR pmv was done in both mediums.

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OK. The body work is pretty much done (will need to add buffer beam details and make good) and it certainly starts to look like a Siphon.

 

post-123-0-43739000-1339269913.jpg

 

And the end hasn't turned out too badly (although a lot of cleaning up and making good is needed)

 

post-123-0-83482800-1339269986.jpg

 

And instead of using a false ceiling, I used roof frame stretchers to minimise the bowing of the sides.

 

post-123-0-57201900-1339270051.jpg

 

Unfortunately, my floor pan is too thin and the model no longer lies square.... However as the floor pan IS fairly thin plastic, I can twist it gently to get it straight. Assuming that the Cleminson 6 wheeler etch ends up being square, with a flat surface to mate with the body, I should be able to gently twist the body so that it will lie flat against the Cleminson etch and glue every thing in place. The wagon length stepboards should then disguise the major wonkiness, or does any one have any other suggestions?

 

F

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I always find keeping it all square a bind, these days I tend to keep a 1/2 kilo roll of solder on the top while I am not working on it, just to try and stop any movement.

 

Looking very good, I have a balsa built one that is in need of a lot of TLC. Seeing yours might prompt me into doing something.

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OK. The body work is pretty much done (will need to add buffer beam details and make good) and it certainly starts to look like a Siphon.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-123-0-43739000-1339269913.jpg

 

And the end hasn't turned out too badly (although a lot of cleaning up and making good is needed)

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-123-0-83482800-1339269986.jpg

 

And instead of using a false ceiling, I used roof frame stretchers to minimise the bowing of the sides.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-123-0-57201900-1339270051.jpg

 

Unfortunately, my floor pan is too thin and the model no longer lies square.... However as the floor pan IS fairly thin plastic, I can twist it gently to get it straight. Assuming that the Cleminson 6 wheeler etch ends up being square, with a flat surface to mate with the body, I should be able to gently twist the body so that it will lie flat against the Cleminson etch and glue every thing in place. The wagon length stepboards should then disguise the major wonkiness, or does any one have any other suggestions?

 

F

 

How about securing it to something flat, I was going to suggest a sheet of glass until I came to part 2, then giving it a dip in boiling water then run it under the cold tap. This should hopefully take all the stresses out of it along with the twist. I have NOT tried it so don't quote me.

 

SS

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Unfortunately, my floor pan is too thin and the model no longer lies square.... However as the floor pan IS fairly thin plastic, I can twist it gently to get it straight. Assuming that the Cleminson 6 wheeler etch ends up being square, with a flat surface to mate with the body, I should be able to gently twist the body so that it will lie flat against the Cleminson etch and glue every thing in place. The wagon length stepboards should then disguise the major wonkiness, or does any one have any other suggestions?

 

If I understand you correctly, you are going to try and use a relatively thin etch to try and straighten a plastic box

that's got a twist. Sounds like a recipe for failure, sorry if that sounds harsh, but you have made such a good job

of the body it would be a shame to ruin the running potential of such a nice model.

I would have thought that the Cleminson underframe needed a firm base to mount on to work properly.

Possibly using the warm water method and weighting it while it set could be your best option, if not, then maybe

constructing a thicker/firmer/stronger floor might work.

Good luck, Jeff

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Thanks for the comments. If I were to get a 2mm steel plate cut to fit the inside of the body and glued it then clamped into place, would that - do you think - bring the floor plan back into square (apart from adding so much needed weight)? Or would 2mm steel buckle and twist?

 

If 2mm or 3mm steel plate would work, anyone know where I could get one cut?

 

Thanks

 

F

Edited by iL Dottore

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I just discovered this thread. Fascinating to watch a scratch built vehicle come together. I like the pictures of the Cleminson chassis - I have some and want to improve my Dapol Stove R. I did get the Chivers 6 wheeled Fish Van working with just a sleeved center axle and rigid sprung outer axles.

 

John

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I think 2mm steel would be just fine, and as you say, will also add much needed weight.

You are not likely to twist it either, the only better option might be 3mm brass so that you

could solder to it.

Good luck, Jeff

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Have you ever tried soldering to 3mm brass? The plastic body would melt before you attached anything.

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Have you ever tried soldering to 3mm brass? The plastic body would melt before you attached anything.

Good point!, but I was thinking of doing the soldering before the body was fitted. :yes:

Jeff

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I think 2mm steel would be just fine, and as you say, will also add much needed weight. You are not likely to twist it either, the only better option might be 3mm brass so that you could solder to it. Good luck, Jeff

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. However, if I can't source 2mm steel, would 2mm or 3mm glass do the trick? All I'd have to do is get a suitable small picture fram and cut to size with (hopefully borrowed) glass cutter. I would imagine that it would be as rigid as the steel (although not so heavy) and a bit easier to find around here in CH

 

F

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I don't recommend glass, apart from the high risk of breaking it,

it will not be easy to fix anything to it [even if it was frosted!].

I would continue your search for brass, I can't believe the Swiss

have banned it [either for safety or health/enviromental reasons].

Is there no-one who can bring you some?

Good luck, Jeff

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Have you ever tried soldering to 3mm brass? The plastic body would melt before you attached anything.

 

You might get away with soldering if you use a resistance soldering unit (RSU) as the solder will melt way before the heat transfers to far.

 

SS

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Well, progress has been made on the GWR Siphon and I'm just about done for the body (although there's still some cleaning up and filing to do).

 

Firstly, taking heed of the excellent selection made by various posters, I added a 0.9mm mild steel floor - which was both easy to cut and stiff enough to maintain body straightness - ironing out the kinks that had crept in.

post-123-0-67396800-1344180723.jpg

 

The Siphon is starting to look pretty much like my reference photos (although the buffers aren't quite right, but are the closest match I could find [and are GWR buffers]):

post-123-0-50684100-1344180184.jpg

 

post-123-0-50309100-1344180277.jpg

I was wondering what to do about the more prominent bolts and retaining plates (correct name?) and a rummage in my box of etched brass details got me exactly what I needed (a kemilway etch as it happens). These were added to the sides (the ones on the ends seem less prominent - so I passed on those). I used plastic strip to fill in for the prominent hinges and locks

post-123-0-92895700-1344180397.jpg

By careful glueing, waiting (the hardest bit) then gentle bending of plastic strip repeated multiple times allowed me to obtain the curved planking at the end of the Siphon. Something that I had been wondering how to achieve.

post-123-0-36494700-1344180620.jpg

 

I then finished the body by adding screw-link couplings, vacuum hoses and buffers.

 

In all, I'd give myself 7.5 out of 10 for the body (no gold medal for me on this :rolleyes: ) as it captures the feel of a 6 Wheel Siphon, but I'm still not 100% convinced about the detailing. Which I might revisit and redo.

 

Next up: the Cleminson 6-wheel chassis etch. I'll be studying the tips posted with great attention and I hope to be a bit faster on the chassis than I was on the body.

 

As always, comments, critiques, feedback etc. appreciated

 

F

edited for spelling

Edited by iL Dottore
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Looks very good, certainly captures the character of a siphon. Just one little, but quite prominent, feature currently missing from the ends is the small piece of timber on which the lamp iron is mounted. See, for example, this photo. Depending on date and running number, you may also need to think about a Westinghouse pipe as well as vacuum, and most had through piping for steam heating.

 

Nick

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Thanks for the tip and photo link, Nick. It'll be quite easy to fix that omission and I'll do so whilst tidying up.

 

F

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Looks great to me, I would like to build a few of these in the future so I'm following this closely and look forward to the updates.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Jim

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I think you still need the filler panels where the G & W go. Lovely looking bit of work.

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