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Hello, I bought an O gauge 02 shunter a few weeks ago and would like to convert it to DCC with sound. There are plenty of chip choices available but there doesn't appear to be any 02 sounds for them. Could I get away with 03/04 sounds? The 02 has different running gear to the 03/04 so would not sound authentic but would provide a solution. Also, can anyone recommend a chip. I've heard good things about LokSound and Zimo.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

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Hello, I bought an O gauge 02 shunter a few weeks ago and would like to convert it to DCC with sound. There are plenty of chip choices available but there doesn't appear to be any 02 sounds for them. Could I get away with 03/04 sounds? The 02 has different running gear to the 03/04 so would not sound authentic but would provide a solution. Also, can anyone recommend a chip. I've heard good things about LokSound and Zimo.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

 

I doubt it. The class 02 was ( is ) 6 cylinder with a manual transmission and the Class 03/4 was ( is ) an eight cylinder with a semi auto five speed gearbox so the engine note and gear changes would be very different.

 

There are 02's in preservation notably at the NRM York.

 

As to the chips to use if you want to record your own project then either ESU or Zimo will suit and both produce a small chip with sound. Speaker installation might be problematical in such a small loco. It was a tight squeeze in my Class 03 for a Loksound Micro speaker.

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Hi,

 

As David has said, there are quite a few differences between these classes which will have a bearing on the sounds produced. Rolls Royce 6 cylinder v Gardiner 8 cylinder, manual v epicylic, likely even a different horn sound.

 

As far as I know, there is no existing authentic sound project available for the 02 yet. I am slowly working through producing sounds for Zimo decoders, and have had several requests for 02 sounds, so it's definitely on my list to do, but I can't say when exactly.

 

If you need sound in this loco, then you could fit an 03 sound decoder /speaker, until the 02 becomes available, and then have it reblown. Whilst there will be differences, the mechanical/gear change/slow speed shunter character will be there. This way, you will get some (similar) sounds with the chance of more authentic sounds later. A sound reblow to an installed decoder is no more difficult than to a bare decoder, though the postage may differ, Ha ha!

 

ESU or Zimo sound chips are fully programmable, so a reblow would be straightforward for either.

 

The current issue of Hornby Magazine (issue 60) has a feature on fitting sound to a Brassworks 03, including speaker and enclosure. Most of this will be relevent

for either Zimo or Lok V4.0.

 

The standard Lok V4.0 should be up to the job, and for Zimo the MX645 is the one you need. Loks are about £98, Zimo about £20 cheaper, but the software has a special 'diesel mechanical' drive scheme which allows for gear changes with the appropriate engine note changes, and 'automatic' coasting on throttle-back.

 

I demonstrated a 'OO' Class 03 sound-fitted model at MRX last weekend, when several RMweb members commented favourably. It's available from Digitrains on Zimo.

 

I may be able to customise the sound file for you before you start, PM me if you are interested.

 

Incidentally, the 'OO' version will feature in the next issue, 61, of HM when the tight squeeze that David mentioned has been successfully addressed. Oh yes!

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

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it's definitely on my list to do

 

Hello Paul, again thanks for the reply. I'm in no huge rush for this as I haven't built the layout yet, I've just started on the baseboard. I've got most of my stock, including the 02, currently DC. I'm happy to wait until you get around to doing it and I'm sure it will be worth the wait. I plan to have something up and running around autumn ready for winter, just so you've got some sort of a timescale.

 

Consider me on your 'definite' list. I'm watching this thread so post any updates here or feel free to PM me with any new details.

Best wishes, Steve

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello Paul, again thanks for the reply. I'm in no huge rush for this as I haven't built the layout yet, I've just started on the baseboard. I've got most of my stock, including the 02, currently DC. I'm happy to wait until you get around to doing it and I'm sure it will be worth the wait. I plan to have something up and running around autumn ready for winter, just so you've got some sort of a timescale.

 

Consider me on your 'definite' list. I'm watching this thread so post any updates here or feel free to PM me with any new details.

Best wishes, Steve

 

Steve,

 

Here's the 'OO' gauge Class 03 I mentioned. I had to wait for Hornby Magazine publication today before releasing it.

 

Obviously, there's more room for a bigger speaker in 'O' gauge, even in an 02.

 

If you go to the actual You Tube, there are some explanatory notes attached.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

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Shackerstone Railway has a meaty sounding 02 D2867.

 

No contact details though,sorry but its due to be running this Saturday* if thats any use.

 

http://www.battlefie...-railway.co.uk/

 

Edit corrected day

 

Thanks, looks interesting but I already have a recording session elsewhere that day.

 

Also, lineside recordings are simply not suitable for DCC sound projects for a number of 'environmental' and technical reasons.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

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  • 4 years later...

Steve,

 

The class 03 sound that Paul showed in the video isn't suitable at all for an 02. The 03 used a slow-running Gardner and a self-changing mechanical gearbox.

 

I have used the Sentinel sound from Digitrains, which I believe was done by Paul, on my Yorkshire Diesel (basically the same as an 02). Both the Sentinel and 02 used turbocharged Rolls Royce engines and twin disc hydraulic transmissions (no gear changes), so it's about as near as you're going to get without a proper sound project for an 02.

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Steve,

 

The class 03 sound that Paul showed in the video isn't suitable at all for an 02. The 03 used a slow-running Gardner and a self-changing mechanical gearbox.

 

I have used the Sentinel sound from Digitrains, which I believe was done by Paul, on my Yorkshire Diesel (basically the same as an 02). Both the Sentinel and 02 used turbocharged Rolls Royce engines and twin disc hydraulic transmissions (no gear changes), so it's about as near as you're going to get without a proper sound project for an 02.

That's great news - I have the Sentinel in my 4mm Hornby model and it's fantastic - I shall order one suitable for my Class 02 from Digitrains

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That's great news - I have the Sentinel in my 4mm Hornby model and it's fantastic - I shall order one suitable for my Class 02 from Digitrains

I agree, good news for an interim (hopes) solution. I too have an 0 gauge 02 waiting for a suitable sound file to become available. Will give this a try.

Steve

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  • 3 weeks later...

Steve,

 

The class 03 sound that Paul showed in the video isn't suitable at all for an 02. The 03 used a slow-running Gardner and a self-changing mechanical gearbox.

 

I have used the Sentinel sound from Digitrains, which I believe was done by Paul, on my Yorkshire Diesel (basically the same as an 02). Both the Sentinel and 02 used turbocharged Rolls Royce engines and twin disc hydraulic transmissions (no gear changes), so it's about as near as you're going to get without a proper sound project for an 02.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Can I just double-check with you, the use of Sentinel sounds for a 'DH' loco. For my part, I am investigating the possibility of a Andrew Barclay 0-6-0DH (Mercian kit) as used at Mountain Ash Colliery and would want DCC sound. Apart from the obvious '35' (Hymek) and '52' (Western) 'DH' soundfiles out there (clearly not suitable!), I have not yet been able to locate one suitable for these smaller 0-4-0DH and 0-6-0DH diesels. My understanding was that the Sentinels are/were DM (Diesel-Mechanical), am I wrong, or did they do both versions? On the other hand, are we talking about a distinction between hydraulically changing gear (in an otherwise mechanical drive), as opposed to actually driving the wheels with a hydraulic 'motor' as well (i.e. 'true' DH)?

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

 

EDIT 1:  OK, I just checked the Judith Edge kits page, to find their Sentinel's are both 'DH' and so perhaps have answered my own question (DOH!).

 

EDIT 2:  Just ignore me, there are Sentinel DM and DH vids out there.  So as long as Paul C's soundfile is indeed recorded from a DH version, all is well with the world.

 

EDIT 3:  Barclay, I meant Andrew Barclay NOT Hunslet (spent too long at the keyboard today, that's for sure).

Edited by steveNCB7754
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The Sentinels, as in the subject of the Judith Edge kits and the Hornby RTR are diesel hydraulics. I've never heard of a diesel mechanical Sentinel. They don't use haydraulic motors but use a torque convertor that then drives final drive and reversing gearbox. As far as I know there is no gear-change.

 

I have an original Sentinel brochure somewhere - I will dig it out and see what it says.

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The Rolls Royce/Sentinel brochure says:

 

HYDROKINETIC TORQUE COVERTOR

 

The Rolls Royce CF11500 three-stage torque convertor (manufactured under licence from Twin Disc Clutch Co., U.S.A.) is carefully matched to the engine and gives a conversion ratio around 5:1. With the associated heat exchanger it is capable of operating at full power at speeds as low as 1 m.p.h., and below this at slightly reduced power in average United Kingdom conditions. No harm will result if full power is applied for several minutes with the locomotive completely stalled as it is fitted with automatic shut-downs to guard against prolonged abuse or incorrect servicing. The fluid used is diesel oil as for the engine, supplied by a pump from the main tank.

 

FINAL DRIVE FORWARD/REVERSE GEARBOX

 

The over-centre clutch and shift are power-operated and act automatically. Change of direction may be pre-selected. Preventive devices avoid inadvertent changing of the forward/reverse gears when the locomotive is in motion, and 'gear home' indicators on the control desk establish visually that the change has been completed before the engine power lever has been opened up. In association with the torque convertor the box allows the locomotive to be driven at all speeds in either direction.

 

The Hunslet Diesel-Hydraulics used the same torque convertor and some even used the same engines as the Rolls Royce/Sentinel locos, although I think Hunslets built their own transmissions but I wouldn't have thought it would make enough difference to the overall sound so I would fit the Sentinel sounds into a Hunslet.

 

I am investigating the possibility of a Hunslet 0-6-0DH (Mercian kit) as used at Mountain Ash Colliery

 

 

I didn't know Mercian did such a kit.

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The Rolls Royce/Sentinel brochure says:

 

HYDROKINETIC TORQUE COVERTOR

 

The Rolls Royce CF11500 three-stage torque convertor (manufactured under licence from Twin Disc Clutch Co., U.S.A.) is carefully matched to the engine and gives a conversion ratio around 5:1. With the associated heat exchanger it is capable of operating at full power at speeds as low as 1 m.p.h., and below this at slightly reduced power in average United Kingdom conditions. No harm will result if full power is applied for several minutes with the locomotive completely stalled as it is fitted with automatic shut-downs to guard against prolonged abuse or incorrect servicing. The fluid used is diesel oil as for the engine, supplied by a pump from the main tank.

 

FINAL DRIVE FORWARD/REVERSE GEARBOX

 

The over-centre clutch and shift are power-operated and act automatically. Change of direction may be pre-selected. Preventive devices avoid inadvertent changing of the forward/reverse gears when the locomotive is in motion, and 'gear home' indicators on the control desk establish visually that the change has been completed before the engine power lever has been opened up. In association with the torque convertor the box allows the locomotive to be driven at all speeds in either direction.

 

The Hunslet Diesel-Hydraulics used the same torque convertor and some even used the same engines as the Rolls Royce/Sentinel locos, although I think Hunslets built their own transmissions but I wouldn't have thought it would make enough difference to the overall sound so I would fit the Sentinel sounds into a Hunslet.

 

I didn't know Mercian did such a kit.

 

Thanks for the comprehensive reply and yes, you are right, I meant Andrew Barclay (same letters, different order LOL) and not Hunslet-  another edit to my initial posting!

 

If all such Sentinels were/are DH's, why do some suppliers advertise the Hornby 0-4-0 Sentinel as a '4wDM' then?

 

Confused.

Edited by steveNCB7754
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Thanks for the comprehensive reply and yes, you are right, I meant Andrew Barclay (same letters, different order LOL) and not Hunslet-  another edit to my initial posting!

 

If all such Sentinels were/are DH's, why do some suppliers advertise the Hornby 0-4-0 Sentinel as a '4wDM' then?

 

Confused.

Because they don't know any better.

 

I don't know the details of the Andrew Barclay diesel-hydraulics but it's a safe bet that they would use the same transmission as the Sentinels and Hunslets. It's just a matter of engines but they would have been similar to what Sentinel and Hunslet fitted as they would be required to match the type of transmission. it's still going to be a better option to put the Sentinel sounds in than the class 03 sound.

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