Hayfields turnout workbench

[hayfield]

Quite thin stuff, may be a bit less

[hayfield]

I forgot to take photos yesterday when I finished the rest of the turnout, will have to remember to photo there next one where I left off. Yesterday the letter box rattled and the Modelu GWR slide chairs arrived

 

 

Much larger than life and magnification at my phones camera limits, excellent produci

 

 

Slide chairs fitted and once painted will blend in well

 

 

Extreme left are the adapted Exactoscale Block chairs in position PL3 & 4 and my interpretation of adapted slide chairs position PL1 & 2

[hayfield]

On 13/06/2019 at 22:32, St Enodoc said:

John, can you please show us a close-up of the joggle? I've read about that method but never used it yet, just relying on pliers.

 

A quick reply about the joggles, I am looking for the subtle approach, rather than an over scale bend

 

Step 1 mark the position of the joggle, using double sided tape the first piece of shim goes on the outside of the rail just before the mark

The second piece of shim goes on the inside of the rail just after the mark

The amount of joggle depends on how far apart the 2 shims are and the pressured used in the vice

Now just squeeze the rail in the jaws

 

Next up are the switch rails, 2 are roughly cut to length

 

The easy way is to use a switch rail jig, in pairs the backs are filed

They are then turned over and the head is filed off one side at a time

 

 

[hayfield]

These are the Exactoscale (central parts) block chair

I dont use the inner and outer parts of the chair as they are 3 bolt versions, I just cut a 2 bolt chair in half and pop either side of the two rails

I dont use any of the other parts as I alter standard and slide chairs for the PL 1 & 2 positions

 

Next I fit the curved switch rail, the important part is where the switch rail joins the common crossing and against the block chairs, once the switch rail is set I fit the curved stock rail with gauges

[N15class]

47 minutes ago, hayfield said:

These are the Exactoscale (central parts) block chair

I dont use the inner and outer parts of the chair as they are 3 bolt versions, I just cut a 2 bolt chair in half and pop either side of the two rails

I dont use any of the other parts as I alter standard and slide chairs for the PL 1 & 2 positions

 

Next I fit the curved switch rail, the important part is where the switch rail joins the common crossing and against the block chairs, once the switch rail is set I fit the curved stock rail with gauges

 I always file about 10mm of the head one side, then bend the rail so it's straight with the rest of the head. Then file off the back. 

 

All looks very nice.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

A quick reply about the joggles, I am looking for the subtle approach, rather than an over scale bend

 

Step 1 mark the position of the joggle, using double sided tape the first piece of shim goes on the outside of the rail just before the mark

The second piece of shim goes on the inside of the rail just after the mark

The amount of joggle depends on how far apart the 2 shims are and the pressured used in the vice

Now just squeeze the rail in the jaws

 

Next up are the switch rails, 2 are roughly cut to length

 

The easy way is to use a switch rail jig, in pairs the backs are filed

They are then turned over and the head is filed off one side at a time

 

 

Thanks John, very helpful.

 

I also use the S4 Soc jigs, both for vees and switches. I find the switch jig very good for kicking off the filing of the head on the front of the blades but I finish off on the bench as I find the jig awkward for filing the backs. That's not a criticism of the jigs by the way, it's just the way I have found easiest for me.

[hayfield]

15 hours ago, N15class said:

 I always file about 10mm of the head one side, then bend the rail so it's straight with the rest of the head. Then file off the back. 

 

All looks very nice.

 

Thanks both for the replies

 

When I first bought the jig I filed the head first then the back, at one of the shows (EMGS/Scalefour or Railex) I have spoken with two or three demonstrators asking them how they used the jigs and the conscientious was to make a pair at

a time, filing the backs first as they tend to support each other helping to keep the filing flat. I guess its just finding a way that works for you

 

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks John, very helpful.

 

I also use the S4 Soc jigs, both for vees and switches. I find the switch jig very good for kicking off the filing of the head on the front of the blades but I finish off on the bench as I find the jig awkward for filing the backs. That's not a criticism of the jigs by the way, it's just the way I have found easiest for me.

 

What I do is to finish the blades out of the jig, tapering the inside of the railhead from the set at 90 degrees to the point at 45 degrees by eye, then polishing where I have filed with emery cloth/wet and dry and rounding off the top of the point

 

It does help having a bench vice and the jig as this speeds up the process no end and is far easier on the fingers. The Vee filing jig is much easier to use and now I make the rails long enough to use the jig to hold the rails whilst soldering them together.

[hayfield]

The first photo on this thread clearly shows the switch blades with the chamfer at the ends

 

 

[N15class]

But if you look it's not a chamfer as such. It is straight with the rest of the rail head. So it was either planned and bent or it was planned the length of the outside planing.

[hayfield]

Peter

 

Thanks for the correction of my incorrect description, I did notice the groove and I now assume the taper on this illustration goes front to back rather than middle to top. Far harder especially in 4 mm scale to replicate. I stand to be corrected (again) but the examples I have seen in the past show the latter. In both instances the foot on the inside remains intact which is far easier to replicate and gives a much stronger fixing for Stretcher/tie bars 

 

[hayfield]

I have an old C&L-Timber Tracks B8 Y turnout which came with a load of parts from an eBay lot. Someone had started the build buy gave up, it all looked wrong as around the common crossing the stock rails were too close to the end of the timbers. I printed off a Templot template and the reason the person had problems building it was that it is 3 timbers too short at the heal and 3 timbers too long at the toe ends. I had some spare Timber Tracks 12" timber strip so I decided to build it and find a buyer than just leave it in its unbuilt state

 

The common crossing looks to be made from a commercial Vee but the wing rails looks to be hand assembled with a 1 mm flangeway, so it will be built to 00-SF standards through the common crossing

 

 

The common crossing is now in the correct position, looks a bit odd at the moment, but once its off the fret and the timbers stained it will be fine, far better than it was looking with the timbers being too short.

As the fret has both C&L and Timbertracks etched into it, the kit must be when Brian Lewis owned both businesses. I have no idea what plan was used to design the fret but it looks like somehow the timber sizes got miscalculated rather than the fret has been cut down. 

[hayfield]

 

I have fitted one stock rail fully and attached the other opposite the common crossing, before it can be fully fitted I like to fit the switch rails as I find its easier to gauge everything to each other

 

 

Next up a 7 mm scale trailing crossover, timbers cut, now to build the common crossings. The timbers are from Timber Tracks and against the C&L (older version) ones I am used to they seen very light, must be something to do with the laser cutting, though I thought the C&L ones were laser cut ?

 

[martin_wynne]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

I have an old C&L-Timber Tracks B8 Y turnout which came with a load of parts from an eBay lot. Someone had started the build buy gave up, it all looked wrong as around the common crossing the stock rails were too close to the end of the timbers. I printed off a Templot template and the reason the person had problems building it was that it is 3 timbers too short at the heal and 3 timbers too long at the toe ends. I had some spare Timber Tracks 12" timber strip so I decided to build it and find a buyer than just leave it in its unbuilt state

 

That illustrates so well what a daft idea the timber bases are. Turnouts can be built just as easily, more accurately, and at vastly less cost, by sticking timber strip on a printed template in the traditional way.

 

John, take extreme care cutting the timber webs if the turnout is already assembled. Don't use a knife blade or ordinary snips -- the plywood will be forced apart by the thickness of the blade, distorting the turnout. Use a Dremel type mini-circular saw, or a nibbler type of cutter. The effort to cut the webs without damage will take far longer than cutting and sticking individual timber strips would have done (with no risk of damage).

 

Laser-cutting a timber base is a solution looking for a problem. (Or someone with more money than sense).

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Martin

 

I broadly agree with you, but for different reasons, pre cut or moulded when accurate can be a super time saver and in the instance of the Exactoscale moulded plastic bases which can be used both for P4 and EM gauges make a very strong and stable turnout and crossing, this is the third issue with a Timber Track base

 

The first issue was the centre guide for the common crossing was off centre, very minor and easily overcome

The second was a P4/EM slip, it is common knowledge that they should be different sizes, when offered up to a Templot template of the same size it was wrong for both EM & P4 gauges

This one somehow has lost the width at the toe end it is the correct length but loosing 5 mm by the time it gets to the toe. This B8 Y kit as I said is one of the early ones (as it has both  Timber Tracks and C&L logos on the fret) so more modern ones may have been corrected  

 

For the time poor they save an hour or so and do make the turnout/crossing a bit more stable when transferring them from the workbench to layout, 

[hayfield]

Back on the 7mm scale this week, the hardest parts have been made which are the common crossings, I must admit moving to brass bar rather than copperclad strip makes for a far stronger job in building them

 

 

The first common crossing cut to length(I always make the rails a bit longer than needed, then cut them to length when fitting them) and chairs threaded on where possible, once the common crossing is stuck in place the cosmetic chairs can be fitted. A great pity slab and bracket and block chairs are not easily available in this scale

[Stephen Freeman]

Slab and Bracket 1 in 7 but have to adapt for the other sizes and gauges - Off the Rails at Shapeways, other chairs also but not unfortunately GWR.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Stephen Freeman
mis-spelling

[hayfield]

Stephen

 

Thank you and I have some NE parts and they are excellent, but not cost very effective, If you buy the check chairs in bulk the cost reduces but the other parts become very expensive if only a few bits are used. Having said this the GWR slab and bracket chairs both look good and are quite reasonably priced, could be said better than doing nothing

 

I think Modelu may be considering a few parts, I had a quick chat with Alan at Railex, but these bits have a very limited market (owing to modellers lethargy with track matters). Modelu's GWR slide chairs are superb.

[hayfield]

When making the curved stock rails in 4 mm scale I find it easy to bend the rails by running it through my fingers, with 7 mm scale you have a much greater mass of metal

 

 

This is where rolling bars come in handy

 

 

The straight stock rails have been fitted and the curved ones only stuck down opposite the common crossing, I like to fix the curved stock rail after the straight switch rails are in position and in conjunction with fitting the curved switch rails, this I find is an easier  way of ensuring everything is in gauge

 

The first switch rail has been made and fitted, building it was made easier as I have 2 new Vallorbe files and of course my trusty disk sander

[hayfield]

After a bit of a rest turnouts are on the bench again

 

 

A p4 A6 using Exactoscale components and C&L rail

 

 

Close up of the additional detail where the switch rails join the wing rails

 

 

A bit more challinging is a double slip (at least its not curved !!) ply timbers are temporary in place until the obtuse crossings are all soldered up. My starting place is always the common crossings,followed by the two stock rails

Edited August 6, 2019 by hayfield

[martin_wynne]

14 minutes ago, hayfield said:

My starting place is always the common crossings, followed by the two stock rails

 

Hi John,

 

Don't forget the two sets in each stock rail -- the tricky bit is to get them exactly the right distance apart. They are marked on the Templot templates but not usually on others.

 

Actually, I know you know all this, just posting for your many followers on here.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Martin

 

The first thing I have learnt to look for when assisting others. Wind the clock back to SMP days and this is never mentioned, to a certain extent you can get away with it on short straight turnouts, but try getting a curved turnout to work without it. In my opinion the best retail plans are the C&L ones, full of chair detail and the planing length is shown on the turnouts (not slips), set not shown only the start of the planing on the blades.

 

Thanks for reminding everyone, as its a thing I just do automatically, but at shows I do show those who I chat to when discussing track building

 

[hayfield]

 

 

 

These are the two sprues that comprise of the Exactoscale E4CH 502A common crossing chairs, 5 different angles 1 in 5/6/7/8 & 10, the parts that cannot be easily replicated are the "A" chairs (slab and bracket) and the centre parts of the block chairs

 

 

The first photo shows the "A" chair (opposite the tip of the vee. The second photo clearly shows the block chair in the secod timber from the left, there is also a block chair on the first timber on the left

The timber on the right shows 2 standard S1 chairs, the next one shows both a standard S1 and a smaller L1 chair (fae nicer than splicing 2 standard chairs to fit

 

 

These next two photos show the next sets of special chairs required, In the first are M1, check rail & L1 chairs. The second photo shows the two sprues in the Exactoscale 4CH 504A slip packs for either a 1-7 or a 1-8 crossing

The thing about making turnouts and crossings is to think ahead, as mentioned before I have temporally fitted some ply timbers where I will have to solder some joints in the obtuse crossings, also the first stock rail has been fabricated (the sets clearly visible) with chairs and check rails added

 

 

The stock rail being fitted using check rail gauges along with some standard ones which are sadly no longer available from Exactoscale

[sharris]

31 minutes ago, hayfield said:

These are the two sprues that comprise of the Exactoscale E4CH 502A common crossing chairs...

 

I never realised Exactoscale did so many special chairs.

 

Wish I'd known that 4 months ago before I'd starting making my turnouts and chopped up bits and pieces of standard, bridge and slide chairs here and there to make rather less convincing chairs around the crossings! 

[hayfield]

Right from the start (when the track system was introduced) as far as I know. All the chairs are based on what was called the P4 track Company turnout and crossing kits, which as far as I know are now not available. Thankfully though the plastic parts used are all available

 

The standard 2, 3 and 4 bolt chairs, as well as the LSWR 3 bolt are all available

 

Here is a link to all the 4 mm track parts

 

https://exactoscale.com/track-components/track-pricing/

 

There is the odd chair that is specially adapted for the pre-assembled rails in the old kit, these are few and far between and easily rectified, check rail chairs are really only for P4 but again easily modified for EM & 00SF, slide chairs in P4 and 4 mm (EM & 00) sizes

 

Instructions of what chair goes where

 

https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/

 

Certainly for P4 and the turnouts for EM (crossings and slips need a slight modification) the plastic turnout bases not only save time but make a very strong unit

 

 

These bases are very under rated and unused

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Certainly for P4 and the turnouts for EM (crossings and slips need a slight modification) the plastic turnout bases not only save time but make a very strong unit

 

 

These bases are very under rated and unused

 

Hi John,

 

Before too long it will be possible to export files from Templot for 3D printing of similar bases, with pips for the chairs. For home 3D printing, or sending the files to commercial 3D printers.

 

This will make it possible to use the Exactoscale pipped chair construction method on any pointwork template which can be created in Templot. Including for 00, EM, etc. With some ifs and buts, naturally.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.