Dock Green

[chaz]

 

March 2011 - Baseboards, folding legs, lighting beam and its supporting pillars all made. The stack of material on the baseboard top is for the cassettes.

 

Chaz

Edited March 3, 2014 by chaz

[2ManySpams]

Thanks Chaz - what thickness of ply did you use for the sides and tops?

[chaz]

Thanks Chaz - what thickness of ply did you use for the sides and tops?

 

Sold as 4mm - measures at 4.2mm. Scandinavian birch ply' - steered clear of the nasty far-eastern stuff. Yes, I know we are supposed to use 12mm for baseboard tops but in my opinion it's too heavy.

[keefr2]

That's very nice looking carpentry Chaz - you mentioned before you used to be a teacher, wasn't in woodwork was it? Very professional looking work there, & shows my 'carpentry' up for exactly what it is - rubbish!!

 

Plans are now just about final for our visit to our daughter in Alton this weekend, so shall hopefully be seeing Dock Green in all its splendour on Saturday!

[2ManySpams]

Sold as 4mm - measures at 4.2mm. Scandinavian birch ply' - steered clear of the nasty far-eastern stuff. Yes, I know we are supposed to use 12mm for baseboard tops but in my opinion it's too heavy.

 

Thanks Chaz. Now you've had the boards for a while is there anything that, in hindsight, you would have done differently board-wise? 

[chaz]

Thanks Chaz. Now you've had the boards for a while is there anything that, in hindsight, you would have done differently board-wise? 

 

Yes, I would not have surfaced the top with cork. 'Orrible stuff which I think is unnecessary and which, by virtue of its softness can produce some variations in level. The friend who was working on Dock Green with me at the time was very keen so I went along with it but it did give rise to a few problems later.

[chaz]

That's very nice looking carpentry Chaz - you mentioned before you used to be a teacher, wasn't in woodwork was it? Very professional looking work there, & shows my 'carpentry' up for exactly what it is - rubbish!!

 

Plans are now just about final for our visit to our daughter in Alton this weekend, so shall hopefully be seeing Dock Green in all its splendour on Saturday!

 

Design and technology Keef (?), woodwork vanished from the curriculum quite a while ago. Thanks for the comment. However I must say a close examination of the underside of Dock Green would reveal a few dodgy bits. Your carpentry doesn't have to be that good with this style of baseboard - no clever joints to cut! The most important thing is a flat and level top surface. I will post a photo (or two) of a frame later which might help you.

 

If you do make it to the show say hello - I'm always happy to talk to any RMwebbers who trainspot at Dock Green.

 

Chaz

[keefr2]

Design and technology Keef (?)....

 

If you do make it to the show say hello - I'm always happy to talk to any RMwebbers who trainspot at Dock Green.

 

Chaz

 

 

Will do Chaz. Keef is a throwback to a girlfriend in college thirty years ago who had a lisp. 'Nickname' seems to have stuck!

 

And I do enjoy trainspotting at DG - but haven't started taking down the loco numbers yet....!

 

Keith

[81A Oldoak]

Sold as 4mm - measures at 4.2mm. Scandinavian birch ply' - steered clear of the nasty far-eastern stuff. Yes, I know we are supposed to use 12mm for baseboard tops but in my opinion it's too heavy.

12mm is definitely too thick for the top surface. That's the mistake I made with the first Cwm Bach boards. 

[Steve Williams]

What type of saw blade is the best for cutting ply, as it always seems to splinter on the one side?

[N15class]

What type of saw blade is the best for cutting ply, as it always seems to splinter on the one side?

To stop the splintering you need a panel saw with 2 blades one above the other. so you cut from both sides

[66C]

Hi Steve

 

For straight cuts in relatively thin ply - up to about 6mm thick - use a Stanley knife. Score one side and cut part way through and then transfer the cut position to the other side and cut the rest of the way through. This is accurate and there is no mess.

 

For thicker ply score the cut line with a Stanley knife and then cut with a saw on the waste side of the line.

 

Regards.

[chaz]

What type of saw blade is the best for cutting ply, as it always seems to splinter on the one side?

 

I use a fairly fine-toothed tenon saw to cut ply' for my frames - this has never caused any splintering problems on good quality birch ply'. I must admit I winced a little at the suggestion of using a Stanley knife - sounds like hard work to me.

To cut the curved roadbed on my new US NG layout I use a power jig saw with a fairly fine-toothed blade fitted. Very little splintering with this either, just a slightly "furry" edge easily removed with glasspaper.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

As promised here is a photo of one of frames.

 

 

Each member is made from two strips of ply', spaced apart with pine blocks. These are glued and pinned and positioned to support the joints between sides and cross-members.

 

Look closely at the corners and you can see that the ends fit inside the outer skin of the sides. Two screws hold the corner together, one through the end into the side and one through the side into the end. Provided the pieces are cut reasonably accurately to length the two screws pull the corners tightly together and make a very strong joint once glued.

 

This photo was taken before the frame members were glued - this was a "dry" assembly to check the fit. I dismantled the frames to fit the hinges to the ends. More of that later.

 

Chaz

Edited March 3, 2014 by chaz

[2ManySpams]

Next woodworking question Chaz, in some of your photos there are 2-3" dia circular holes cut at each end of the front frame. What are these for? Some sort of recess for electrics? 

[Softvark]

I use a fairly fine-toothed tenon saw to cut ply' for my frames - this has never caused any splintering problems on good quality birch ply'.

 

I think this is the key - use a good quality plywood.

 

I bought some 'cheap' stuff from a well know diy store not that long ago and the amount of splintering on the underside was appalling. I was using a fine toothed blade in a jigsaw, with the anti splinter guard in place, but I'd used the same type previously with nowhere near the same amount of tearing. However it does seem quite difficult to find decent quality ply - especially at a reasonable price.

 

Julian

[David Siddall]

One way to minimise splinters when cutting plywood (or any laminated material for that matter) is to run some masking tape along both sides of the sheet along the line you intend to cut, rub it down firmly, draw the line you want to follow onto the masking tape and off you go. Jigsaws (manual or powered) are best at cutting curved shapes not straight lines and its difficult to avoid shaggy edges as the blade flails about when attempting a straight cut.

 

A hand-held circular saw is probably the best tool for square-cutting sheet of any description, or failing that a nice new rip saw held at about 10-15 degrees from the timber and used gently (allowing the saw to do the work).

 

How do I know this... ownership of a woodworking shop as part of a sign business and two narrow boats fitted out from bare steel shells. Both used ply in various forms (shuttering, marine, faced, etc) in prodigious quantities and in niether application were splintered edges an option...

 

David

Edited March 4, 2014 by David Siddall

[chaz]

Next woodworking question Chaz, in some of your photos there are 2-3" dia circular holes cut at each end of the front frame. What are these for? Some sort of recess for electrics? 

 

Exactly! The large holes are in the outer skin on the operators' side. The sockets for the jumper leads connecting one baseboard to the next are mounted on the inner skin. In fact all electrical fittings are so fitted. It means that they can't be damaged when the baseboards are handled or put down on edge. A large hole makes it easy to fit plugs into sockets.

I didn't want to have to get underneath the layout when setting up at a show - all the connectors fit into the back.

 

Chaz

Edited March 3, 2014 by chaz

[chaz]

An early view of the roadbridge at the LH end of the layout.

 

 

The shell is foamboard. I cut ribs, rather like the ones in a model aircraft's wing, to support the card road with a cambered surface. I have seen roads modelled with flat surfaces and IMHO they don't look much like roads.The black painted sections are where I later put drains. Not too convincing to see the white foamboard through the grills!

The strips of grey card on the top of each rib were glued on with PVA and effectively sealed the foam centres and allowed me to use a impact adhesive (Timebond) to attach the card road surface. As this was in one piece, curved gently by hand, I needed an adhesive which would grab and hold the card.

 

Chaz

Edited March 3, 2014 by chaz

[chaz]

Bridge #2 is the single track railway that crosses the yard. The girders were scratchbuilt from HIP with cross-beams from Plastruct 'H' section. Here are a couple photos of it in progress.

 

 

 

I cut the Plastruct beams on my Proxxon circular saw to get them all the same same length with square cut ends.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I think this is the key - use a good quality plywood.

 

I bought some 'cheap' stuff from a well know diy store not that long ago and the amount of splintering on the underside was appalling. I was using a fine toothed blade in a jigsaw, with the anti splinter guard in place, but I'd used the same type previously with nowhere near the same amount of tearing. However it does seem quite difficult to find decent quality ply - especially at a reasonable price.

 

Julian

 

I suspect your problem is in that last phrase - "especially at a reasonable price". Cheap stuff will always involve accepting compromises. Having used a fair quantity of cheap ply' in the past I now will only buy Scandinavian birch. I get mine from Totton Timber in Southampton who are fairly local to me. It's not cheap but much nicer to work with and I suspect the finished baseboards are more stable.

 

Chaz

[David Siddall]

I think this is the key - use a good quality plywood.

 

I bought some 'cheap' stuff from a well know diy store not that long ago and the amount of splintering on the underside was appalling. I was using a fine toothed blade in a jigsaw, with the anti splinter guard in place, but I'd used the same type previously with nowhere near the same amount of tearing. However it does seem quite difficult to find decent quality ply - especially at a reasonable price.

I have to say, cheaper ply has its time and place, although, as Chaz says, it may involve compromises...

 

Another anti-splintering trick when cutting plywoods is to paint thinned PVA, proprietary wood hardener; or best of all (IMO) thinned Expoxy Resin along the line you want to cut on both sides of the sheet. Whatever 'hardener' you use it needs to be thinned sufficiently to ensure it soaks through the outer ply's and bonds them thoroughly. Finally to protect edges from moisture and splintering as a result of accidental knocks give them a further couple of coats.

 

David

[chaz]

I'm still twitching.....this job was just about the most fiddly one I've faced on Dock Green....

 

I have just spent well over an hour chaining the load to the bogie bolster. Two pairs of snipe-nosed pliers and two pairs of tweezers were essential for this job

 

The 'easy' (!) bit was fitting the first end of the chain to the loops on the wagon using those wire links I made...

 

 

Great care was needed feeding the chain around the load. The tiny links abraid paint very easily, being particularly good at wearing it off of any edges.

 

 

I found it impossible to get all the slack out of the chains - the tensioners are dummies after all. Still I think the end result looks good and was worth the effort. It's a vast improvement on running the wagon with no load or worse still a unsecured load.

 

 

I think it will be a star-turn on the layout.

 

I remember lusting after the Hornby Dublo bogie bolster when I was a kid. I never did get one although one of my friends had two.

 

Chaz

 

EDIT - I don't know if I mentioned above that the wagon is one of Jim's excellent Connoisseur kits. A little trickier to build than some of his as you have to make some very long folds in the etched brass to make up the solebars and the sides. Still, with a bit of care it comes out very well. I modified mine, cutting off the stanchions which were all on the outside, "plugged in" to those sockets - in fact cast as part of the them. With this narrow load of steel angle the stanchions have ben positioned in the holes in the bolsters.

having loaded the wagon I can't think of any way that it could be easily unloaded - if you wanted to be able to run it back to Corby "empty" I think you would have to build a second wagon - life is a little too short....

Edited March 4, 2014 by chaz

[chaz]

I have to say, cheaper ply has its time and place.....

 

David

 

Quite so David, but I wouldn't use it to make baseboards. It might serve for the formers for scenery, although I will probably use card or foamboard when I come to add the scenery to my On30 layout.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Another photo from my archive...

 

The canal was included in the design from the start, so I was able cut the baseboard top and sides to suit. Cutting the baseboard top meant that the trackbed could be continuous. It would have been perfectly possible to make the bridges removable but doing it this way meant that there were no problems with getting smooth level joints in the trackbed - there aren't any!

 

 

The "girders" in the photo were quicky jobs, cut from foamboard to see how the bridges might look. I used quite a lot of foamboard on Dock Green, both to mock up features and for the shells of buildings etc.

 

Chaz

Edited March 5, 2014 by chaz