RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Rich, I'm astonished you're having so much trouble with Markits drivers. Just a thought.................. Have you scraped out (gently, with a curved craft blade) the inside edges of the square hole in the wheels' centres? Have you then just dressed (again, gently, with a fine file) the square edges on the axles' ends? After this, have you just pushed the wheels into place to begin with, not using the screw fixing? I find it rare that I have to do the first two procedures listed above, but I always push the wheels into place, just by hand, first. I push them on, take them off, brush away any slight detritus, and finally fit with the screw. I must have done this procedure with Romford/Markits wheels thousands of times......................... Regards, Tony. Thanks, that is more or less the process that I have been following, although I will give it another try following it to the letter and see how I get on. Once done, how much pressure are you having to apply to get the wheel to seat onto the axle? Thanks Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, CF MRC said: My memory of Frank’s locos on exhibition was that they were not quiet, as such, because the pick up skates made the most realistic squealing noises. Far better than some DCC sound! Tim Oh I agree Tim. In the yard at Lutton there was quite a curve, including two points. The noise of the skates over the nail heads gave a very realistic flange squeal, and is something I can still hear now. I need to go through the back issues of the MRN to learn more about his modelling.. Andy G 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: *snip* Finally, and on a completely different subject, may I ask what rates a thread as 'most-popular', please? I 'upset' someone by suggesting that a particular thread was the most popular, going on the number of pages. It was not his. Apparently, it's the number of views, not the number of responses (the latter boosting the page count, I suppose). Which is it? I ask the above, just out of a little interest, though, I have to say, it would matter not a jot to me which was which. It's certainly not a competition and I feel it's not really that important (though, clearly, it is to some). As far as this thread goes (which isn't 'mine', by the way), it's all of you, the correspondents, who make it what it is. Just look at the variety of subjects covered over the last few pages. I've learned a lot! Regards, Tony. Tony... it’s pretty meaningless. ‘Popular’ is one of those words like ‘average’ that can be measured in many different ways. I recall a while ago that British Airways and Virgin had a spat about which one was the world’s most ‘favourite’ airline. One flew the most passengers, the other had the best customer satisfaction scores. There is no right answer. The statistics being used may not be accurate either. Many of us lost much of the data that is used to calculate our ‘reputation’ on this forum, when it was upgraded recently. I now regard such statistics as being indicative, rather than absolute. Rather than using popularity, I prefer to rate forum threads on other parameters such as engagement and how informative they are. This one is well ‘up there’ on that count! Phil 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glo41f Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I have to say that I like the Acro 4F shown here . To me it looks better than the equivalent white metal one. I cannot say whether this is prejudice (it probably is) as I prefer brass or nickle silver to what was once described to me by a well known modeller "margarine metal"! Brass/nickel looks better is easier to solder and to me is more durable. I often wonder why white metal continues to find favour in 4mm. (Was there not a scare once about the makeup of white metal being injurious to health?) . London road models have it right in my view! Martin Long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 84C Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I think its wonderful that old models come out of hiding and then get built. Having survived that long they deserve to go on and on unlike their builders. I have an American reefer kit unbuilt, it must be seventy yrs; old, even has the packet of powdered glue ready to be mixed with water. £3 at a toy and train fair, is it better as a kit or built? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, The Fatadder said: Thanks, that is more or less the process that I have been following, although I will give it another try following it to the letter and see how I get on. Once done, how much pressure are you having to apply to get the wheel to seat onto the axle? Thanks Rich Rich, Not too much pressure by hand. The drivers should fit snugly before tightening up the retaining screw/nut. I find it's the putting on/taking off once or twice that makes the fit 'perfect'. Incidentally, though not that widely known, builders using the finer gauges and/or friction-fit wheels will use a set of Romford/Markits wheels to set up their chassis first; because of the wheels' ability to be put on/taken off as many times as is required without loss of function. Regards, Tony. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Chamby said: Tony... it’s pretty meaningless. ‘Popular’ is one of those words like ‘average’ that can be measured in many different ways. I recall a while ago that British Airways and Virgin had a spat about which one was the world’s most ‘favourite’ airline. One flew the most passengers, the other had the best customer satisfaction scores. There is no right answer. The statistics being used may not be accurate either. Many of us lost much of the data that is used to calculate our ‘reputation’ on this forum, when it was upgraded recently. I now regard such statistics as being indicative, rather than absolute. Rather than using popularity, I prefer to rate forum threads on other parameters such as engagement and how informative they are. This one is well ‘up there’ on that count! Phil Thanks for that Phil (and Paul MP), I rather thought that might be the case. I have to say that I find it rather 'pathetic' that it's important to some. Rather like counting the number of 'likes'. However, each to their own, though to me the ultimate 'like' is seeing a model railway item in the flesh to make a value judgement on, either visiting where it's kept or at a show. Regards, Tony. Edited March 16, 2019 by Tony Wright to clarify a point 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, uax6 said: I'll try and liberate it from the display cabinet and arrange a date to bring it over so we can have a play with it. Frank died at the wheel towing a caravan, which must have been scary for Peggy his wife.... Do you happen to have any copies of the photos per chance? I'd love to see the layout again... Andy G I don't have copies, Andy, Those which still exist will be in BRM's archives; somewhere................. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: In the days of Comet, only insulated drivers were stocked. I assume Andrew has continued with this policy. Tony is correct. It says on the Wizard website that they only supply insulated Markits driving wheels. Andrew 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Rich, Not too much pressure by hand. The drivers should fit snugly before tightening up the retaining screw/nut. I find it's the putting on/taking off once or twice that makes the fit 'perfect'. Regards, Tony. That’s really good to know, hopefully starting again tonight I will have a bit more luck (although priority one will be getting enough brass milled out of the body to actually get the rear driver to fit). Thanks again for all of the help, I don’t know where my kit building would be without it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I'm astonished you're having so much trouble with Markits drivers. Tony, Are the wheels that you use from stock that you've had for some time? I have to say that recent production seem to need much more removal of casting flash / machining burrs than was ever required in the past. Nevertheless, I still use Markits' wheels exclusively. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Rich, Incidentally, though not that widely known, builders using the finer gauges and/or friction-fit wheels will use a set of Romford/Markits wheels to set up their chassis first; because of the wheels' ability to be put on/taken off as many times as is required without loss of function. Regards, Tony. That's a great idea Tony. I have a 2P kit, bought off Ebay that has, I think, Gibson wheels that look to be push fit and basically one shot with a taper pin to secure them. I will definitely use some Slater's wheels that I've got in another box to set that chassis up. It's marvellous what pearls of wisdom are scattered around in this thread. Jamie PS, before anyone makes the smart comment I did wonder if I could fit in the comments about pearls and swine without offending anyone and thought better of it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 hours ago, glo41f said: I have to say that I like the Acro 4F shown here . To me it looks better than the equivalent white metal one. I cannot say whether this is prejudice (it probably is) as I prefer brass or nickle silver to what was once described to me by a well known modeller "margarine metal"! Brass/nickel looks better is easier to solder and to me is more durable. I often wonder why white metal continues to find favour in 4mm. (Was there not a scare once about the makeup of white metal being injurious to health?) . London road models have it right in my view! Martin Long I agree about etched brass or nickel generally looking better, especially around visible edges. Casting usually fails to produce the crispness of sheet metal. However white metal loco kits remain popular for several reasons. Lower cost, greater weight without adding ballast for better haulage, simpler (i.e. fewer parts) to assemble and hence quicker to build, plus possibly others I can't think of. Despite that, I gave up building white metal loco kits a long time ago. Modelling the LNWR generally meant GEM kits, weren't the best and not up to the standard of Wills (now SEF) or M&L (no longer readily available). The latter produced the better LNWR kits - I still have two in my London Road roster - but even then didn't compare with the etched offerings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Mike 84C said: I think its wonderful that old models come out of hiding and then get built. Having survived that long they deserve to go on and on unlike their builders. I have an American reefer kit unbuilt, it must be seventy yrs; old, even has the packet of powdered glue ready to be mixed with water. £3 at a toy and train fair, is it better as a kit or built? Agree. I have quite a few O scale American kits bought over the years, mostly freight cars. Some are "Ambroid" craftsman type kits, just wood, wire and a few cast fittings with instructions. Others are much easier "Athearn" kits with beautifully painted and printed metal sides, ends and roof which are glued over a wooden box structure, pre cut and in the kit. I have a few of these built up (off ebay) and are superb - you can tell just by looking they are not plastic. I'll build this one soon. More difficult is a brass "kit" built 4-6-0 Pacific steam loco bought recently for a song again off ebay. Its a pre 1950 "International Models" kit, not quite complete and a bit of engineering metalwork / ingenuity will be required. It has been built once, and dismantled. Its missing a driving axle, the motor spins under 12V DC but has no power - I suspect the magnet needs re magnetising or perhaps a new motor is needed. It is a 3 rail kit though all the wheels are insulated, as is the front bogie, The boiler / cab and other sub assemblies have been nicely made. The tender is a mess but I have a spare. There are no instructions but a blue print is supplied - Crikey !!!! This will tax me a bit - but its late 40's American O gauge, nothing too fiddly !! Brit15 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted March 16, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2019 8 hours ago, uax6 said: For some reason a previous post I replied to keeps coming up. Oh, well.................. I've spent the days casually finishing off the old Acro 4F. Adequate, I think. One thing I didn't attempt was to carve out the cut-outs at the base of the firebox to accommodate the sandbox fillers. Anyway, here it is performing the typical duties for which I built it. A layout loco running on a layout. Nothing more. Many thanks for the interest. 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 5 hours ago, cctransuk said: Tony, Are the wheels that you use from stock that you've had for some time? I have to say that recent production seem to need much more removal of casting flash / machining burrs than was ever required in the past. Nevertheless, I still use Markits' wheels exclusively. Regards, John Isherwood. Interesting, John, Having now built/completed/started seven locos this year, all shod with Markits drivers of diameters between 27mm and 18mm, I've not had the slightest problem with fitting the wheels, most of which were bought late last year or early this one. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 17 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said: I agree about etched brass or nickel generally looking better, especially around visible edges. Casting usually fails to produce the crispness of sheet metal. However white metal loco kits remain popular for several reasons. Lower cost, greater weight without adding ballast for better haulage, simpler (i.e. fewer parts) to assemble and hence quicker to build, plus possibly others I can't think of. Despite that, I gave up building white metal loco kits a long time ago. Modelling the LNWR generally meant GEM kits, weren't the best and not up to the standard of Wills (now SEF) or M&L (no longer readily available). The latter produced the better LNWR kits - I still have two in my London Road roster - but even then didn't compare with the etched offerings. There's no doubt that a 'hard' metal locomotive does (literally) have the edge, Jol, Especially where thin visible edges are apparent - smoke deflectors/cabsides/tender sides/etc,. However, as you say, white metal has the advantage of weight. I think that's why my favourite loco kits are the kind made by the likes of DJH and SE Finecast, where the merits of both types of metal are exploited to the full - weight where it's needed (smokebox/boiler/firebox) and thin edges where they're required (deflectors/cabsides/tender bits/etc,). Granted, with both of the manufacturers mentioned, it's their later kits which have these desirable features, and many in the ranges still have largely white metal components. Thankfully, there are now no kits (as far as I know) which provide white metal frames. The original Wills kit for a J69 did have a white metal chassis, but, thankfully, Dave Ellis of SE Finecast now provides an excellent etched one. The body, though, is still white metal. Perhaps the coal rails would be better as etches. I'm surprised this popular class still remains untouched by the RTR boys. See what I mean about the merits of a mixed-media kit? DJH's A2/2, again a type not available RTR. I should have fitted better bogie wheels, but these were supplied by the customer. Of course, the all brass/nickel silver loco kit will always appeal; especially when there as good as this D2 and D3 from London Road Models. Beautiful little locos indeed. Are they on anyone's RTR radar? I don't think so, and I definitely hope not. A type now available RTR is a B17. I still prefer to make my own - in this case from a Crownline/DMR kit. However, where kits from this range include a resin boiler - no thank you! Regards, Tony. 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) The first loco kit I ever built, when I was in my teens, was a Wills King with a big block of white metal for a chassis. I never could get it to run well and in those days (1970 ish) I had never heard of etched brass chassis kits. Thank goodness such things aren't still around. Jamie Edited March 17, 2019 by jamie92208 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 Just now, jamie92208 said: The first loco kit I ever built, when I was in my teens was a Wills King with a big clock of white metal for a chassis. I never could get it to run well and in those days (1970 ish) I had never heard of etched brass chassis kits. Thank goodness such thigs aren't still around. Jamie Jamie, One white metal kit I built in my 'formative years' was a McGowan 'Jersey Lilly'. It was all in white metal, including chassis, coupling and connecting rods! Did it run with the parts supplied? I have no idea, because I scratch-built a chassis for it in brass, forming the rods from filed-down rail. Where is in now, I wonder? Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @Jamie Oooh .... I don't know about the Will's King. I built one in the late 60s as a pimply faced youth, for someone known to the model shop owner where I worked on Saturdays. It fitted together quite well on its whitemetal chassis, and ran smoothly with an X04 motor and 40:1 gearing on Romford wheels. I thought (at the time) that it was good, hand painted and lined with 'Pressfix' lining transfers. I got paid £25 for that, which at the time was a lot of money for me as I was still in school. (Seemed to go downhill from there on - cars, women, pubs ..........). Cheers, Philip 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jol Wilkinson Posted March 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Jamie, One white metal kit I built in my 'formative years' was a McGowan 'Jersey Lilly'. It was all in white metal, including chassis, coupling and connecting rods! Did it run with the parts supplied? I have no idea, because I scratch-built a chassis for it in brass, forming the rods from filed-down rail. Where is in now, I wonder? Regards, Tony. Tony, that sounds like the early GEM LNWR Precursor Tank kit. I never got the thing to run properly despite also making new coupling rods from the then preferred material, BH rail. The quality of the castings wan't great, and just one of the reasons I became dissatisfied with w/m kits. I've never built a mixed material kit such as SEF or DJH produce, only because the don't produce anything I want. The nearest I have got is the LRM Coal Tank with a resin boiler, which, despite your reservations, goes together well. Nearly all the boiler fittings locate into holes to make them secure, while the chimney, dome and s/v are glued with epoxy and have withstood exhibition transport and handling on quite a few occasions. The tanks contain lead sheet ballast which, together with the cast metal parts gives enough adhesion for my needs, but she couldn't pull 15 carriages at 70mph on Little Bytham (even if the wheels fitted the track!) Jol Edited March 17, 2019 by Jol Wilkinson Spelling/grammar (and even then I am not sure if I have got it right). 18 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said: Tony, that sounds like the early GEM LNWR Precursor Tank kit. I never got the thing to run properly despite also making new coupling rods from the then preferred material, BH rail. The quality of the castings wan't great, and just one of the reasons I became dissatisfied with w/m kits. I've never built a mixed material kit such as SEF or DJH produce, only because the don't produce anything I want. The nearest I have got is the LRM Coal Tank with a resin boiler, which, despite your reservations, goes together well. Nearly all the boiler fittings locate into holes to make them secure, while the chimney, dome and s/v are glued with epoxy and have withstood exhibition transport and handling on quite a few occasions. The tanks contain lead sheet ballast which, together with the cast metal parts gives enough adhesion for my needs, but she couldn't pull 15 carriages at 70mph on Little Bytham (even if the wheels fitted the track!) Jol That's a beautiful model, Jol, Thanks for posting. My reservations regarding resin boilers come from the older Crownline kits for locos like the A1/1, A2/2 and A2/3, where the quality of the resin castings was a bit suspect. There were scuff marks, too much flash and pit marks all over the place on the three mentioned. Not only that, the dimples for the handrails were in the wrong place. On the A2/3, I substituted a SE Finecast A2 boiler. I would think that the current PDK equivalents are far superior. Certainly, the resin boiler on your coal tank looks very good indeed - of very high-quality. Speaking of 'high-quality', there's nothing wrong with Graeme King's resin-bodied locos, either. I built the 2-6-2 on the right using one of Graeme's V2 bodies, fitting a Comet chassis beneath it and arranged it to tow a Bachmann tender. The painting/weathering is mine. I think it's a good layout loco. As is the the other V2, built from an old Jamieson kit. This time the painting is by Ian Rathbone (it shows!). Graeme's resin J6 is also very good as a layout loco (or better?). I didn't use his resin chassis for this, preferring to scratch-build one in brass. I should have disguised that prominent screw in the frames. I also should have made a better job of cleaning up the footplate valance. This was subsequently sold, after the SE Finecast re-release of the old Nu-Cast kit was announced, and a chap I'm helping with his modelling couldn't resist it. The dear old J6 always seems to score highly on RTR wish-lists. Don't worry about your Coal Tank not being able to pull 15 bogies at speed on LB. There are good many, much bigger, RTR locos which can't do that, either! Regards, Tony. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2019 Hello Tony A little question, would a British Railways, Southern Region allocated Karrier Bantam with flatbed trailer be used at Little Bytham? 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Hello Tony A little question, would a British Railways, Southern Region allocated Karrier Bantam with flatbed trailer be used at Little Bytham? Is that what it is, Clive? Probably (definitely?) not. Would any SR modeller out there like it? Mr. Duck? If so, it's yours! Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Is that what it is, Clive? Probably (definitely?) not. Would any SR modeller out there like it? Mr. Duck? If so, it's yours! Regards, Tony. Tony, If Clive can provide correct ER fleet numbers (and registration number?), I will provide the transfers !! On the other hand, you may say "Look at my face - do I care" ?; (...no, probably not) ! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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