Wright writes.....

[Flying Pig]

Well I have read 1066 and All That and it was most definitely palfreys wot did the old king in. Or praps not. There is, I will admit, a certain amount of confusion from time to time in that volume. It might even be deliberate.

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, Flying Pig said:

Well I have read 1066 and All That and it was most definitely palfreys wot did the old king in. Or praps not. There is, I will admit, a certain amount of confusion from time to time in that volume. It might even be deliberate.

 

So have I, a brilliant book. Perhaps the reason I failed History O level.

[Oldddudders]

Back a few pages, at the weekend, our host illustrated his progress with point rodding. While the essentially loco-centric nature of our hobby has meant that in subsequent pages this work got left behind a little, I just wanted to point out something that Tony is probably aware of. I am no engineer, least of all an S&T wallah, but I am aware that at one time much point rodding used round rods, not the square (I think it’s actually U-channel) section of more recent times. Knowing zilch about LNER/Eastern Region signalling practice (although about 30 years ago I did share a meeting table with the head of the York Design Office) I cannot say whether the round rodding was ever used at Little Bytham, but am concerned that Tony should feel more comfy with his choice of rodding. 

[jwealleans]

Quote

King John.

 

It was peaches which allegedly did for John.  Henry I was the victim of lampreys.

 

1066 and All That is one of those books which is funnier the more you know about the subject (try Animal Farm before and after you read up the Russian Revolution).  If you know your history, it's highly recommended.  Substituting 'palfreys' for lampreys' is exactly in the style of the authors (see 'The Venomous Bead' who wrote the first history of the English).

 

Hamilton Ellis' Rapidly Round the Bend is in a similar style.

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Back a few pages, at the weekend, our host illustrated his progress with point rodding. While the essentially loco-centric nature of our hobby has meant that in subsequent pages this work got left behind a little, I just wanted to point out something that Tony is probably aware of. I am no engineer, least of all an S&T wallah, but I am aware that at one time much point rodding used round rods, not the square (I think it’s actually U-channel) section of more recent times. Knowing zilch about LNER/Eastern Region signalling practice (although about 30 years ago I did share a meeting table with the head of the York Design Office) I cannot say whether the round rodding was ever used at Little Bytham, but am concerned that Tony should feel more comfy with his choice of rodding. 

Round rodding, commonly gas pipe, was used in the early days of the LNWR but could suffer from undetected internal corrosion. F W Webb patented  the inverted U shape version in 1874, which was produced in Crewe works. It was adopted  as standard by the LMS. 

 

This information came from Richard Foster's excellent Pictorial Record of LNWR Signalling, but doesn't inform as to what the other railway companies did.

[westerner]

My goodness this thread moves so quickly.

My Oxford Encyclopedic English Dig definition of "plethora" is 1. An oversupply, glut, or excess, 2. Med,  An abnormal excess of red red corpuscles in the blood, an excess of any bodily fluid.

[drmditch]

43 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Round rodding, commonly gas pipe, was used in the early days of the LNWR but could suffer from undetected internal corrosion. F W Webb patented  the inverted U shape version in 1874, which was produced in Crewe works. It was adopted  as standard by the LMS. 

 

This information came from Richard Foster's excellent Pictorial Record of LNWR Signalling, but doesn't inform as to what the other railway companies did.

 

The NER made use of gas piping, which was available in large quantities at a good price. (From 'A History of North Eastern Railway Signalling' published by NERA

[Niels]

On 03/04/2019 at 14:43, MarkC said:

Thanks too for clarifying the point about cylinder blocks - this morning's claim about common castings was the first I had heard of that theory.

 

My morning claim was that Raven A2 (4-6-0),Q7(0-8-0) and B16(4-6-0) shared cylinder blocks.

Bradley writes that Q7 and B16 had inter-changeable cylinders ,boilers and motion.

That A2 used same cylinder casting is likely, but not confirmed.

The B16 had conrods outside coupling rods as had A2s and Q7

Edited April 4, 2019 by Niels

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Round rodding, commonly gas pipe, was used in the early days of the LNWR but could suffer from undetected internal corrosion. F W Webb patented  the inverted U shape version in 1874, which was produced in Crewe works. It was adopted  as standard by the LMS. 

 

This information came from Richard Foster's excellent Pictorial Record of LNWR Signalling, but doesn't inform as to what the other railway companies did.

It depends on who (Railway/Region) and when, and then practices varied between Railways/Regions as well as the effect of 'when'.

 

If Little Bytham had survived long enough it might well have acquired channel rodding instead of round rodding (some Railways/Regions used solid rod and not gas pipe) but there is a need to closely study exact practice in photos.  For example some Regions stuck to the use of round rodding for transverse runs passing under track (e.g WR) while other Regions (e.g. LMR) used channel rodding for transverse rods as well as in rodding runs.  

 

Alas I don't know the answer for ER (GN section) practice but somebody on RMweb might know.   A photo I have found on the 'net suggests to me that the practice at Little Bytham by the late steam era was to use channel rodding for the rodding runs and round rodding for all the transverse rods.  Drives from cranks to points etc would in any case be done using round rodding.

[31A]

Just had a quick look at "The Book of the Great Northern, Part Two" by P.J. Coster.  This book has numerous pictures of the permanent way at stations on the GN Main Line between Welwyn and Doncaster, the majority taken in the late 1950s / early 1960s (but including late 1930s and early 1940s at Doncaster), and almost all show channel section rodding, where it can be identified.  The exception as far as I can see being at Cadwell (N. of Hitchin) where, in a picture (p49) dated 1961, the point rodding looks to be round section.

[Enterprisingwestern]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The Concise Oxford Dictionary, Mike. 

 

I bought it in 1967, and have relied on it since then.

 

One of my sons' mini-dictionaries describes plethora as 'too much' of something. 

 

Clearly, different dictionary compilers have different definitions, though I still think the word is rather pejorative, rather than complimentary; especially used in the context I described. 

 

And, anyway, in which dictionary will you find 'consuckting'? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

It was actually consucting, I was just checking if you were paying attention!!

Plethora is from some Greek, (I think), word, and I believe, was originally applied to a medical condition meaning an excess or over filling of a bodily area with red blood corpuscles, yet another example of the transition of a word into a slightly different meaning and application.

 

Mike.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

 

I like to think that I use English reasonably correctly - I DID get a Grade 1 in 'Use of English', after all.

 

Nonetheless, I will happily admit that I too have been, for some seventy years, under a misapprehension as to the true meaning of 'plethora'.

 

I shall henceforth refrain from its use when referring to a quantity or condition better described as an 'abundance'.

 

Thank you for educating my aging brain - you can teach an old dog new tricks!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

How about a surfeit, as of lampreys?

 

Edit: sorry, should have read all the pages before posting this.

Edited April 3, 2019 by St Enodoc

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

How about a surfeit, as of lampreys?

Or a plethora of comments about 'plethora'? 

 

Mind you, I started it!

[CF MRC]

Hence a plethoric face...

 

Tim

 

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

It was peaches which allegedly did for John.  Henry I was the victim of lampreys.

 

1066 and All That is one of those books which is funnier the more you know about the subject (try Animal Farm before and after you read up the Russian Revolution).  If you know your history, it's highly recommended.  Substituting 'palfreys' for lampreys' is exactly in the style of the authors (see 'The Venomous Bead' who wrote the first history of the English).

 

Hamilton Ellis' Rapidly Round the Bend is in a similar style.

As is "4' 8 1/8" and All That", but not a patch on the original.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

It depends on who (Railway/Region) and when, and then practices varied between Railways/Regions as well as the effect of 'when'.

 

If Little Bytham had survived long enough it might well have acquired channel rodding instead of round rodding (some Railways/Regions used solid rod and not gas pipe) but there is a need to closely study exact practice in photos.  For example some Regions stuck to the use of round rodding for transverse runs passing under track (e.g WR) while other Regions (e.g. LMR) used channel rodding for transverse rods as well as in rodding runs.  

 

Alas I don't know the answer for ER (GN section) practice but somebody on RMweb might know.   A photo I have found on the 'net suggests to me that the practice at Little Bytham by the late steam era was to use channel rodding for the rodding runs and round rodding for all the transverse rods.  Drives from cranks to points etc would in any case be done using round rodding.

Thanks Mike,

 

I've now chosen to make the point rodding on Little Bytham out of round brass wire for two reasons. For one, it's considerably cheaper (and I need 'miles' of it) than the square nickel silver rod sold by MSE, and, two; once fitted, it's impossible to tell the difference at anything more than four inches distance from it on the model. I don't even know if all the square sections I've installed are actually 'square' when soldered to the stools. Some might well present a 'diamond' section, with a thin edge at the top. 

 

I think it's a case where making some details on a 'large' model railway (I suppose at 32' x 12', does LB constitute a large layout?) calls for a different approach from the 'micro layout' approach, so much in favour today. If one were, say, installing point rodding on a 4mm layout which could fit on to a shelf or bookcase, then one could 'go to town' on it, so to speak. I don't have that micro 'luxury'. The rodding on LB runs for almost the entire scenic section, some 25'. At both ends, it's only one run, then, very rapidly, increases both ways until a maximum of some 15 rods are all in line - the whole length of the station, and beyond. I think, more than perhaps with any other detail, a 'sketchbook' approach to this is pertinent. What, with all those associated cranks and compensators, I think all I'm seeking is an 'impression'. 

 

It's ironic; before I made and installed any of the point rodding on LB, I was blissfully unaware of it not being there. The moment I started installing bits of it, the 'miles' of its absence were immediately apparent. 

 

I've started so I'll (I must) finish it!

 

More pictures of it tomorrow.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Northmoor]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Do these writers not know that by using 'plethora' they are, in fact, conveying exactly the opposite of what they wish to express? Obviously not. 

 

I and several scientifically-trained colleagues used to similarly dislike the use of the phrase,  "a quantum leap in...." some field of product development or other.

The users always thought it meant a huge step change, when it actually means a change in atomic radii, which is measured in Angstroms.

I suppose, "The change we've made is detectable in only about four laboratories around the world", probably isn't what they wanted to convey.....

[Headstock]

20 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I actually find this to be one of the few things that is easier than in the old days.

 

Just go to "choose files" and select the ones you want from wherever they are stored. They will then appear as thumbnails below your text. Just highlight where you want each one to go and click on the little cross in the bottom left corner of the thumbnail. That's it.

 

Thanks for the reply,

 

the problem is with the forum logging me out. Currently I type in another bit of software, paste it in and then post. Otherwise by the time I press reply or post I find myself logged out and having to start again.

 

13 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

I get that now with only a few wagons ive made. The engineers train in building is completely my own work and I cannot wait to see that go round. 

 

 

Evening Jesse,

 

The engineers train really stands out, it got my attention strait away. I would like to know a few more details on how you produced your Dolphins if you don't mind.

[CF MRC]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

I've now chosen to make the point rodding on Little Bytham out of round brass wire for two reasons. For one, it's considerably cheaper (and I need 'miles' of it) than the square nickel silver rod sold by MSE, and, two; once fitted, it's impossible to tell the difference at anything more than four inches distance from it on the model. I don't even know if all the square sections I've installed are actually 'square' when soldered to the stools. Some might well present a 'diamond' section, with a thin edge at the top. 

 

I think it's a case where making some details on a 'large' model railway (I suppose at 32' x 12', does LB constitute a large layout?) calls for a different approach from the 'micro layout' approach, so much in favour today. If one were, say, installing point rodding on a 4mm layout which could fit on to a shelf or bookcase, then one could 'go to town' on it, so to speak. I don't have that micro 'luxury'. The rodding on LB runs for almost the entire scenic section, some 25'. At both ends, it's only one run, then, very rapidly, increases both ways until a maximum of some 15 rods are all in line - the whole length of the station, and beyond. I think, more than perhaps with any other detail, a 'sketchbook' approach to this is pertinent. What, with all those associated cranks and compensators, I think all I'm seeking is an 'impression'. 

 

It's ironic; before I made and installed any of the point rodding on LB, I was blissfully unaware of it not being there. The moment I started installing bits of it, the 'miles' of its absence were immediately apparent. 

 

I've started so I'll (I must) finish it!

 

More pictures of it tomorrow.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

We use cotton and pins on CF for point rodding. A little bit can be seen in the attached video & image of Belle Isle Up box .

 

 

It’s only representative but, along with things like the fog man’s huts and detonator placers, adds interest to otherwise rather empty areas - it can also withstand the odd knock with a track rubber as it is flexible.   This video might also be of interest:

http://streaming.britishpathe.com/hls-vod/flash/00000000/00017000/00017694.mp4.m3u8

 

 

Tim

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by CF MRC
Added a bit

[Jesse Sim]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks for the reply,

 

the problem is with the forum logging me out. Currently I type in another bit of software, paste it in and then post. Otherwise by the time I press reply or post I find myself logged out and having to start again.

 

 

Evening Jesse,

 

The engineers train really stands out, it got my attention strait away. I would like to know a few more details on how you produced your Dolphins if you don't mind.

It wasn’t actually that difficult, I thought it would be much harder. 

 

I bassically scrapped the BR sturgeon bogies for LNER standard ones, then hacked and sweared at the solebars until all the extra bits came off and filed and cleaned them up to represent what they looked like in the 30’s. I had Peter Tatlows LNER wagons propped right next to me and I just observed and hacked for a good 20 minutes. Sturgeons had 4 small doors instead of 2 big ones, like the Dolphins, so I just scrapped the doors all together and am modeling them without the doors all together, laziness? The doors were often left at depots anyway. The Dolphin wagons also had fixed ends instead of dropped ends, so I just scratchbuilt some ends out of plasticard and there we are an LNER Dolphin wagon from a Cambrian Models BR Sturgeon. 

 

 

 

For the second one I’ll kit bash I’m going to do a more detailed version of the build as I’ve been asked about a practical article for BRM. So, if it turns out alright I’ll pass along the idea to Howard and see where it goes. 

 

Hope that all made sense. 

[Jesse Sim]

Tony, apologies, I have totally hijacked your thread, but I can’t help but want to post this. 

 

This is is my first ever Brass kit that is more or less completed. I am very happy with the result, I know that with practice I’ll get better and better. I must thank Jonathan for his awesome help with it, via countless Facebook messages! 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said:

Tony, apologies, I have totally hijacked your thread, but I can’t help but want to post this. 

 

This is is my first ever Brass kit that is more or less completed. I am very happy with the result, I know that with practice I’ll get better and better. I must thank Jonathan for his awesome help with it, via countless Facebook messages! 

 

 

 

Jesse, hijack whatever you like.

 

This is terrific stuff.

 

You've had no better a mentor than Jonathan Wealleans, but you've also been a 'model' pupil.

 

If you weren't sure you were a modeller before this, I can assure you - you are now!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, CF MRC said:

 

We use cotton and pins on CF for point rodding. A little bit can be seen in the attached video & image of Belle Isle Up box .

 

 

It’s only representative but, along with things like the fog man’s huts and detonator placers, adds interest to otherwise rather empty areas - it can also withstand the odd knock with a track rubber as it is flexible.   This video might also be of interest:

http://streaming.britishpathe.com/hls-vod/flash/00000000/00017000/00017694.mp4.m3u8

 

 

Tim

 

 

Perfect, Tim.

[Jesse Sim]

59 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Jesse, hijack whatever you like.

 

This is terrific stuff.

 

You've had no better a mentor than Jonathan Wealleans, but you've also been a 'model' pupil.

 

If you weren't sure you were a modeller before this, I can assure you - you are now!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Many thanks Tony, I’ll be sure to bring some of the kitbuilt stuff with me in November for a show and tell! 

 

Perhaps even my first kitbuilt loco, the c12?? 

[Mallard60022]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

I've now chosen to make the point rodding on Little Bytham out of round brass wire for two reasons. For one, it's considerably cheaper (and I need 'miles' of it) than the square nickel silver rod sold by MSE, and, two; once fitted, it's impossible to tell the difference at anything more than four inches distance from it on the model.

Tony. 

Fortunately the LSWR/BRSR had the foresight to know that I would be using brass or NS wire for my  point 'rodding' and kindly installed that at the location that is to be depicted by my train set.

Fortunately most of it is in long, straight runs, but there is an awful lot of it and the knitting extending from the Box is daunting.

Phil