Popular Post grahame Posted January 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 hours ago, rowanj said: . . . . Folk posting their work seems to have dropped off a bit, so here is "one of mine" . . . Yes, it does seem a little like that. So here's a pic of mine, although not a recent project, that is all N/2mm scratch-built although not complete. It's in b&w to give that aged period era look that many like, judging by some of recent photos posted. And I might have shown it before, but can't remember, so apologies if so: 15 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: What about Derek Cross? Isn't he, and his friend, Ivo Peters, on your layout of Shap? Derek Cross used a Linhof Teknika plate camera. A very serious bit of kit. Regards, Tony. Like this you mean? (pic by Andy York) It's not actually Ivo Peters and Derek Cross - it's Ivo Peters and his travelling companion Norman Lockett. The story goes that Derek Cross tried to persuade Ivo Peters for years to make the long trek north to Shap. Eventually, he 'gave in' and he went up there with Derek Cross in April 1965 (I've seen at least one example from that trip of them photographing the same train, a Black 5 on an oil train, photographed from Greenholme bridge). Ivo was captivated! So he then travelled up several times more until the end of 1967, always staying at the Shap Wells Hotel. His regular travel companion was Norman Lockett and that is who Tom D has captured in this scene, based on a picture in the book of Ivo Peters' pictures from these trips. Well - at least it's some modelling! (albeit done a few years ago now). I should have something new on the modelling front to post on here in the next few days. 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: Like this you mean? (pic by Andy York) It's not actually Ivo Peters and Derek Cross - it's Ivo Peters and his travelling companion Norman Lockett. The story goes that Derek Cross tried to persuade Ivo Peters for years to make the long trek north to Shap. Eventually, he 'gave in' and he went up there with Derek Cross in April 1965 (I've seen at least one example from that trip of them photographing the same train, a Black 5 on an oil train, photographed from Greenholme bridge). Ivo was captivated! So he then travelled up several times more until the end of 1967, always staying at the Shap Wells Hotel. His regular travel companion was Norman Lockett and that is who Tom D has captured in this scene, based on a picture in the book of Ivo Peters' pictures from these trips. Well - at least it's some modelling! (albeit done a few years ago now). I should have something new on the modelling front to post on here in the next few days. I seem to recall an advert for the car and appropriate figure models. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 As much as I'd like to show some scans of Ben's photo I suspect I can't because of Copyright reasons. He was known to climb trees to get his shots including his possibly most famous one of a 22xx next to the River wye at Kerne Bridge. However I do like to take my photos of Blakeney in the style of Ben Ashworth an example. his photos are mainly in B%W hence I often make my shots B&W. 14 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jol Wilkinson Posted January 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Camden, What an extraordinary piece of work. I feel quite ashamed in a way with what I usually do with tender interiors. That is to solder a piece of flat brass, just below the top of the sides of my tenders, then, after painting, just fill it with (real) coal, even allowing some to spill over to the rear, around the dome and water filler. Thus, any detail (not that there is any) is buried. Would anyone actually model a tender interior like the one you've shown? By that I mean, on an operating model railway like Little Bytham, most of the locos' tenders would be fairly full of coal (even the Up 'Lizzie's' tender used to have plenty left by Kings Cross). The only time a tender's interior would be so visible is just as its towed out of the paint shop for weighing or in a museum. Splendid work, nonetheless. Regards, Tony. Do people model the interior of tenders in detail? Probably not often with the later large, high sided types but with the smaller more open per-group ones it is often worth adding the detail. This photo shows a LNWR 1800 gallon tender from a LRM (ex George Norton) kit. The riveting around the coal space and the tunnels for the brake and water scoop operating rods are quite prominent. Without a front plate the level coal level would be low towards the foot plate and so this detail would be visible. 16 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Compound2632 said: I suppose the ideal would be for locomotives to be modelled with the appropriate amount of coal in the tender for the working and the location. So, with Little Bytham being very nearly exactly a quarter of the way to Edinburgh, and supposing that engines working through pretty much exhausted their supply, on the Anglo-Scottish expresses, about ¾ full northbound and ¼ full southbound? Assuming the tender tank gauge is modelled, what level should the indicator be at? Thanks Stephen, I'd have a bit more in the respective tenders. During Little Bytham's period of representation, most of the A4s had double chimneys, and so did a few A3s. As with the Thompson/Peppercorn Pacifics, this made them lighter on coal. There are many pictures of A4s arriving at Kings Cross on the 'Lizzie' with enough coal left to probably get halfway back to Edinburgh. Northbound locos would have their coal piled up so high that Gasworks Tunnel acted as the 'loading gauge'. Regards, Tony. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Ribird said: As @gregpokes1/Camdenmentioned earlier and shown off his beautiful Mallard tender (which is a Locomotion Models version that he added various details to), I'm working on various versions of the detailed inserts. These inserts are only a visual representation of the real thing, not dimensionally accurate (sorry)! I do have a few tweaks to do with these versions before counting them as "finished," mainly fixes for printing issues. Below is the other version for the non-corridor tender, a detailed Hornby version, along with the first test print of the raised bunker back. The high backed tender for the non-corridor tender is also for preserved 60008. There are so many variations of the non-streamlined corridor tender due to the differences with the preserved tenders. The two corner, rivet strips, and the tender door are all separate prints. A flush riveted door has also been made. I do not have any plans for streamlined faring, as that will involve sanding to be proper, along with the shell needing modification for the extended front faring (Look at the Hornby Garter Blue W1 tender to see what I mean if confused). As mentioned above, most modelers will model their tenders full of coal, so details will get lost sadly. These would be perfect for the preserved modelers and the not-as-filled tenders. For replacing the inserts, really simple to cut out (I've already cut out three! One of each tender variant ). The Hornby inserts are not part of the shell, just glued in (look at the Hornby W1 progress shots to see what I mean). Cut from the bottom along the edge, breaking the glue joint. And then push the insert towards the bottom of the tender, cutting any bits of glue still in. These new inserts should be a simple slide in and glue. We will post our progress and further info when there's more to show I do have a lot more drawing to do now! Any questions feel free to ask! Fascinating. Many thanks for showing us. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpokes1/Camden Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Camden, What an extraordinary piece of work. I feel quite ashamed in a way with what I usually do with tender interiors. That is to solder a piece of flat brass, just below the top of the sides of my tenders, then, after painting, just fill it with (real) coal, even allowing some to spill over to the rear, around the dome and water filler. Thus, any detail (not that there is any) is buried. Would anyone actually model a tender interior like the one you've shown? By that I mean, on an operating model railway like Little Bytham, most of the locos' tenders would be fairly full of coal (even the Up 'Lizzie's' tender used to have plenty left by Kings Cross). The only time a tender's interior would be so visible is just as its towed out of the paint shop for weighing or in a museum. Splendid work, nonetheless. Regards, Tony. Tony, Thank you very much for the compliments. I'd thought about the coal covering the detail... but there still would be at least something sticking out. Since my model is the NRM glossed edition, I decided to have a go at modeling this one empty to a museum standard. Even with tenders relatively full, the water filler area would still be visible and maybe the top of the front when the coal would start to form a dimple where you could see the coal door and corner bracings. I think the representation of the detail ought to be there if you're paying close to the £200 for these models. Since the A3's/A1's are obviously undergoing a retool, I think we should expect to at least see some sort of representation of the interior as we did with the new A2's Hornby is rolling out. Since there were no A4's in the 2021 range announcements and the A1/A3 retool was announced, I think it's reasonable to expect a retool of the A4 announced next year? I hope they do something better than the horrid '90s tender drive valve gear, sort out the slab-sided cylinder valancing and correct the tender height and interior detailing to a degree, longer front buffers, and an open-framed front bogie. Oh how I can wish! Regards, Camden 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, LNER4479 said: Like this you mean? (pic by Andy York) It's not actually Ivo Peters and Derek Cross - it's Ivo Peters and his travelling companion Norman Lockett. The story goes that Derek Cross tried to persuade Ivo Peters for years to make the long trek north to Shap. Eventually, he 'gave in' and he went up there with Derek Cross in April 1965 (I've seen at least one example from that trip of them photographing the same train, a Black 5 on an oil train, photographed from Greenholme bridge). Ivo was captivated! So he then travelled up several times more until the end of 1967, always staying at the Shap Wells Hotel. His regular travel companion was Norman Lockett and that is who Tom D has captured in this scene, based on a picture in the book of Ivo Peters' pictures from these trips. Well - at least it's some modelling! (albeit done a few years ago now). I should have something new on the modelling front to post on here in the next few days. I've taken a picture of them as well, Graham. I assume that's the actual number of Ivo's Bentley? Did they capture views like this from their vantage point? They'll have needed a step ladder or two to get this one! It was certainly a popular spot for photographers.................. As you have replicated............................ I took this last picture at the Warley Show (as you know). I assume the 8F now has a front coupling, cab glazing and lamps (and a crew)? Speaking of 8Fs, when we (at last) get back to exhibiting, you're more than welcome to borrow the one of mine which has just been finished. Regards, Tony. 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Manxcat said: Tony, Your wish is my command! Archie Many thanks Archie, What struck me most in the video was the incomplete point rodding and the way-out-of-scale MR/M&GNR girder bridge. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Many thanks Archie, What struck me most in the video was the incomplete point rodding and the way-out-of-scale MR/M&GNR girder bridge. Regards, Tony. None-the-less, a very interesting display. Thank you. Spent far too long admiring your railway. I did like the actual wheels-on-the-rail sounds which, for me, were much better than any electronic simulations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 19, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2021 46 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: As you have replicated............................ I took this last picture at the Warley Show (as you know). I assume the 8F now has a front coupling, cab glazing and lamps (and a crew)? Not yet .. it did have some lamps which seem to have been lost, it had also lost its front coupling in transit. These can now be replaced as the stock is now at my home. No glazing yet but I am really not a fan of crew members.. until we can animate them! But this one has been weathered all over.. looks like the cleaners cleaned the smokebox and its door on your version. It is a DJH kit with a Portescap motor by the way. Baz 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Barry O said: Not yet .. it did have some lamps which seem to have been lost, it had also lost its front coupling in transit. These can now be replaced as the stock is now at my home. No glazing yet but I am really not a fan of crew members.. until we can animate them! But this one has been weathered all over.. looks like the cleaners cleaned the smokebox and its door on your version. It is a DJH kit with a Portescap motor by the way. Baz Good evening Baz, Geoff Haynes and I looked at lots of 8F pictures with regard to weathering. Quite a common feature was evidence of the smokebox having been replaced at some point. I recall this feature as a trainspotter, where a loco would present a shiny black 'face' on approach, resulting in our believing it was ex-works, only to find that the rest of the paintwork was shabby. I suppose it all comes down to observation. You're a dab-hand at weathering, and observation of the prototype is always essential. Of course, regarding smokeboxes, the opposite case is often true; with the rest of the loco reasonably presentable, but the smokebox badly burnt. I assume that's the reason they were replaced from time to time? Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 19, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Quite a common feature was evidence of the smokebox having been replaced at some point. I recall this feature as a trainspotter, where a loco would present a shiny black 'face' on approach, resulting in our believing it was ex-works, only to find that the rest of the paintwork was shabby. Replaced? Terry Essery, Saltley Firing Days, writes of his first few weeks as a cleaner, February / March 1950: "My artistic aptitude was soon spotted, and I found myself armed with a 3 ft 6 in L-shaped paint brush, a gallon pot of black heat-resistant paint and a 'brief' to transform every rusty-looking Saltley smokebox to a Cherry Blossom shine. After this I had to get down to some realy delicate work and whiten the shed and smokebox numbers." 8 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted January 19, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Replaced? Terry Essery, Saltley Firing Days, writes of his first few weeks as a cleaner, February / March 1950: "My artistic aptitude was soon spotted, and I found myself armed with a 3 ft 6 in L-shaped paint brush, a gallon pot of black heat-resistant paint and a 'brief' to transform every rusty-looking Saltley smokebox to a Cherry Blossom shine. After this I had to get down to some realy delicate work and whiten the shed and smokebox numbers." Thanks Stephen, I'd always assumed (in my ignorance) that the the smokeboxes had been replaced, though the effect is the same. As is often the case, a chance remark led me to delve into the photo collection.................... A clean loco, but note how the smokebox has discoloured (through priming?). The self-same 60112 as shown above, but this time with heroic weathering. There can hardly be any paint left on the smokebox, and look at that leading bogie wheel. At least someone has attempted to clean the number, or some of it. Had Ian Rathbone or Geoff Haynes painted an A3 for me, and then it was obliterated like this, that would be a real waste. Anyone taken 'extreme' weathering to this level on their models? Though the loco is a bit grubby, just look at the even worse state of its smokebox. A very clean A3, but the smokebox door's base is badly burnt. I've never seen this combination on a model. More evidence of a smokebox door being red hot at one time. An ill-fitting door? Even more-extreme. Note the staining on the crosshead and the rear bogie wheel; evidence of emulsified oil being squirted out from the rear of the cylinders. It looks as if the smokebox door has been repainted of late on this B1. And on this one, but only at the bottom. Many smokeboxes showed a different finish to that on the boiler. A shiny boiler, but a matt smokebox. I show these images, not to 'prove' anything but to always promote the application of prototype observation; at all times. Weathering is rarely 'uniform'. As displayed here on this O2/2 I built from an ACE kit (don't ask!). I painted it, and the splendid weathering is the work of Tim Shackleton, one of the masters of the craft (note the emulsified oil). Regards, Tony. 22 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 19, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2021 I had been under the impression that what Essery describes was a Saltley "thing" but your remark about seeing it in your spotting days suggested that it was more widespread. Plenty of evidence that it was very far from universal, though! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 19, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2021 In my mind's eye from looking at pictures, I have always associated the shiny, newly repainted smokeboxes with LM engines rather than those of other regions. Hadn't particularly thought of it as a peculiarity of Saltley as such, although it might have been. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Anyone taken 'extreme' weathering to this level on their models? Now Tony do we really need to ask that question? One clean Austerity shown at a club night, and one phrase of, “ it will need to be weathered to run on Stoke.” Led to one austerity which it is rumoured might once have been black. richard 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LNER4479 Posted January 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2021 7 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I've taken a picture of them as well, Graham. I assume that's the actual number of Ivo's Bentley? Speaking of 8Fs, when we (at last) get back to exhibiting, you're more than welcome to borrow the one of mine which has just been finished. Thanks Tony - I chose Andy's picture on this occasion as the angle on the figures was similar to the picture in the Ivo Peters book that they were based on. It will of course be a delight to host your newly-completed 8F at a future show. I'm sure it's a case of 'when' rather than 'if'. Meanwhile, some actual modelling to report on: Here is the latest work on the new signal for Retford. More or less ready for the white spray can, following some fiddly work with mini-somersault brackets, finials and lamps. It's not particularly big as bracket signals go (pic alongside a loco to give an idea), but there again these are miniature arms. Lots more fiddly work to come ... 15 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrg1 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 13 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I've not seen Ben Ashworth's work, Alan, Though it's entirely subjective I know, my choice for the greatest (British) railway photographer would be W. J. (Bill) Verden Anderson. Regards, Tony. Definitely-his Scottish Photographs are superb. HR 103 at Dalnaspidal is an especial favourite. Books I would nominate are Fenman's Images of Steam, Colin Walker's record of the GCR and Eric Bruton's BR steam. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted January 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2021 Tony, I love all the pictures with the smokebox door weathering. However, my eye was drawn to the interesting formations behind the locos (as you may not be surprised to hear!). The first and fifth photos (60112/56) are clearly of the same train in the same spot and have a lovely ex streamliner twin behind the drawbar. It must be 1959 or 60 because of the wind deflectors on St Simon but I can’t find any train like it in the CWN. Do you have any idea what the train is or where the shots were taken? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grob1234 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Am I alone in loving the 'colour tones' in the older film colour pictures? Although modern digital cameras are able to capture wonderfully sharp images, for me there is something about the perfect imperfection that film images display, that adds to the atmosphere. I also love the colour images of F1 in the 50's and 60's too. 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: Tony, I love all the pictures with the smokebox door weathering. However, my eye was drawn to the interesting formations behind the locos (as you may not be surprised to hear!). The first and fifth photos (60112/56) are clearly of the same train in the same spot and have a lovely ex streamliner twin behind the drawbar. It must be 1959 or 60 because of the wind deflectors on St Simon but I can’t find any train like it in the CWN. Do you have any idea what the train is or where the shots were taken? Andy These images have been discussed before. They are approaching Gainsborough Lea Road, presumably on diversion. I have not managed to identify the workings. Unfortunately, for the likely date of the photos, information on carriage workings is sparse to non-existent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted January 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, 31A said: In my mind's eye from looking at pictures, I have always associated the shiny, newly repainted smokeboxes with LM engines rather than those of other regions. Hadn't particularly thought of it as a peculiarity of Saltley as such, although it might have been. Definitely not just a Saltley thing. For example there are a number of E R Morten photos in the early 50s showing Kirkby-in-Ashfield's 48379 with a painted smokebox. See for example this 1952 view on the late David Hey's site: Painted smokebox doors to try and cover the burnt doors (not always successfully) seemed to be a feature on ex-NER locos, particularly towards the end of NE steam. For example (Mike Morant collection): To avoid causing t-b-g to end up sobbing quietly in a corner I won't share photos of the large boilered Robinson GCR locos that often just had the bottom third or so repainted to cover over the burnt portion of the smokebox door towards the end of their lives. The paint line is obvious in many photos, but it's not often modelled. Simon Edited January 20, 2021 by 65179 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 10 hours ago, 31A said: In my mind's eye from looking at pictures, I have always associated the shiny, newly repainted smokeboxes with LM engines rather than those of other regions. Hadn't particularly thought of it as a peculiarity of Saltley as such, although it might have been. Good morning Steve, Your 'association' is confirmed by my experiences (though I'm sure burnt smokeboxes were attended to on other regions), 'spotting at Chester. It was common to see Black Fives and 8Fs with gleaming 'faces', when the rest of their appearance was very grubby. Regards, Tony. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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