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Tony Wright

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3 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Andy, the build was on one version of RMWeb, no longer accessible, but it's also on the LNER Encyclopedia forum where you can see how I made the missing windows.  It was by no means as hard as I expected.

 

I have some 10' MJT bogies to replace the present pair, I'm just awaiting a source for the cosmetic sides.

Thanks, I thought you would have done and I must have read it some time ago but that would have been before I bought the kit so it wouldn’t have registered. It looks difficult but manageable, so I think I’ll hang on to it for now.

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On the subject of kits, I built two Westward panniers(64xx and 74xx) over 25 years ago, decent kits and still going strong.

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2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

That was a very long list of kits from Tony - I notice it didn't include any of ours though... Anyone who knows the history of Judith Edge kits will be aware that they arose from Judith's irritation at hearing my continual complaining (polite expression) at other kits. I do have a Jidenco Claughton kit in the cupboard somewhere - I might try to build it one day but I don't have any use for one at the moment.

There are many reasons for criticising kits and as has been pointed out some ranges such as Falcon and London Road come from a variety of designers so obviously some might be much better/worse than others.

Many have basic dimensional errors, usually because an incorrect drawing has been used to produce the kit - this can be more or less insurmountable.

Many more are badly drawn or designed, especially true of hand drawn etches from the pre-computer age. The worst cases are left and right hand parts drawn separately - and differently, many more simply don't fit together.

Over complication and inclusion of parts which will be invisible on the finished models are what I dislike the most, often coupled with very thin and flimsy half etched parts which are almost impossible to solder together neatly. In my view the principal function of the kit designer is to make life easier for the builder - I want builders to finish the job, not give up part way along.

Instructions are another common source of complaints, they can be so long and comprehensive that nobody can be bothered to wade through them all or so short (Jidenco were good at this) to be completely useless. The current fashion is to produce a series of photographs as the model is constructed with little or no explanation and no proper parts list - certainly not an accurate drawing of what is being built. This seems a very lazy way to do the job and the photo reproduction is very often poor. In my view the parts list should be numbered, with numbers shown on the etch (no frantic searching for random numbers on a photo of the etch) and a description/name for every component. A problem with this approach is that many kit designers have little or no knowledge what the parts are, what they are for on the full size loco, how they work and how they were designed.

I've built nearly all of the Backwoods range, a couple of them were really difficult (Penrhyn 0-4-0 and K1 Garratt come to mind) but mostly they were very good and all produced excellent models.

Most of the above refers to etched kits, I don't get to build many white metal ones these days but most of them were buildable with care. K's were very good when the moulds were new but quality deteriorated when they used the worn out moulds for far too long. NuCast, DJH, Little Engines, Cntre Models and Wills/SEF were normally very good - some of the others mentioned by Tony would be better melted down and used for weight in a proper model. I have done this with some particularly awful castings.

The complaints about the 7mm ex Jidenco Coal Tank are probably valid (I haven't built one myself) but the finished model looks pretty good to me, which is what the customer expects. There are quite a number which I would say "never again" to - or at least increase the price considerably.

 

Nor High Level, Finney or Mitchell. Perhaps because those posting to this thread, Tony included, have no interest in the prototypes covered in those ranges.

 

I am far from impartial, but don't enjoy seeing Jidenco and LRM listed in the same sentence. John Redrup of LRM has absorbed other ranges into the London Road Models catalogue, which might otherwise have disappeared. That has ensured that those kits continue to be available although it does, as you suggest, mean that the kits are designed with a variety of different approaches. The design age of some of the kits also means that differences occur, particularly for those kits designed "pre-CAD". However, LRM has kept kits developed by Iain Rice, Steve Barnfield, George Norton, Planit Engineering, Danny Pinnock and Derek Munday available, which may not have been the case if other kit producers hadn't come forward to take them on. Andrew at Wizard,  Brassmasters and others have also done the same. Sadly, some have failed to keep things going, such as Falcon (Jidenco) and Blacksmith/Mallard (Coopercraft).

 

John has also continued to add kits by other designers, especially those who had the interest in a particular prototype but welcomed support in in getting the kit into production. Two recent examples of additions to the range are the LNER 0-8-0's designed by Frank Davies for the Shipley MRS “Clayton” layout, together with the forthcoming MR Railmotor (Andy Walker) and LNWR 0-4-0 shunting tank (Dave Smith).

 

Jol

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Very enjoyable series of posts on kit manufacturers. Can I add the Dave Alexander kits, now much missed by NE modellers, which were whitemetal with some brass and etched parts with etched chassis. Excellent as starter kits and able to be detailed by those who want to. ArthurK's excellent kits and those from 52F are well designed and I have successfully built all 3 makes, and if I can....

 

.High level Models are also worth a look, though I have only seen, but never built these kits.

 

John

Edited by rowanj
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One manufacturer not mentioned yet, and in the MIA lists of manufacturers bought, and not returned to market is Impetus. A brilliant range of industrials, I built a couple, including the Y10, (why did I sell it :( ?) Here’s a Barclay started by me and completed by  @t-b-g in EM gauge. I’ve ceased working in EM, and Tony’s agreed to look at making it narrow gauge for me. In this image it sits upon a box of purest unobtainium....

E3AFC82E-9CE4-4682-80DF-8622BD5B782D.jpeg

Edited by PMP
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19 minutes ago, PMP said:

One manufacturer not mentioned yet, and in the MIA lists of manufacturers bought, and not returned to market is Impetus...... a box of purest unobtainium....

 

 

Why DO people - in this case Kalgarin Models, I believe - buy these excellent kit ranges, and then do absolutely NOTHING with them ?!?

 

Impetus kits were beyond my budget and skills when I used to see their stall at ExpoEM - but now I have the wherewithall and skills, they've disappeared off the face of the planet.

 

By no means the only ones - but it is immensely frustrating !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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A couple more to add to the list of kits, TAG Models - etched brass Ruston 48ds - ok, and Roxey - whitemetal Planet - again ok.

 

 

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My understanding is that Karlgarin had every intention to return them (Impetus) to market. Circumstances including I believe ill health, and a lack of castings mean they have never reappeared. 

Edited by PMP

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1 minute ago, PMP said:

My understanding is that Karlgarin had every intention to return them (Impetus) to market. Circumstances including I believe ill health, and a lack of castings mean they have never reappeared. 

 

That's fine - sh*t happens; but surely the thing to do then is to dispose of the business to someone who CAN make use of it?

 

Just sitting on assets that are in demand can surely never be justified?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Perhaps a bit late entering 'the fray' regarding kit manufacturers but a year or two back I finally decided to build the Kingdom Kits Barclay 0-4-0 saddle tank which had been in my 'to do' pile for ages.  To be polite, it was a challenge,  The whitemetal was so thick and heavy that in some places it was impossible to solder and other parts took a great deal of fettling to get right.  Cylinders etc. went into the 'heavy metal' scrap!..I did get it finished in the end and it runs very well - but that I feel is more up to me than the kit!

 

Someone mentioned Stephen Poole.  They made a couple of GE locos and also a GWR 64xx pannier.  I've not built one - but I did fall into the trap of buying some of their wheels.  Rave reviews in the model railway press of the time, they looked good but performed terribly.  Aluminium is not a good material for wheel tyres!

 

I ended up jumping on my Jidenco Cambrian Brake Van:huh:  Thankfully the only Jidenco kit I bought.

Edited by 5050
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I can add Chivers, Arthur Kimber and Dave Bradwell

Edited by Paul Cram

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    Jidenco kit of the LNER F8 , or rather a Jidenco kit with all the cast parts changed to Arthur K 's much much better parts, a scratch built roof and even the coupling rods are new parts. What was left of the actual kit ,went together reasonably well. The only reason I bought the kit, was because no one else has ever done a kit of the F8, that I am aware off.

  The same cannot be said for a Jidenco LNER Cattle wagon which was simply dire and is not even worthy of a photo . I dont think I will be buying any more kits from that source !.

 

post-7186-0-96814500-1531765616.jpegpost-7186-0-04593800-1531765640.jpeg

Edited by micklner
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Tony, please forgive me for publicising my range here.

My name has been mentioned a couple of times in the above posts. There are about twenty locos in range, all are NER prototypes.

NORTHEASTERN KITS PRICE LIST.pdf

Not all are available at any one time as they are produced in small batches.

Note the these are not complete kits and do not include handrail knobs,  nuts & bolts or wire. They do include all etches, castings and comprehensive instructions.

Many of these are detailed in MikeMeg's threads

 

ArthurK

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Rivarossi made some very nice American O scale steam loco kits back in the 70's / 80's. I made a couple of Indiana Harbour Belt 0-8-0's seen here. They also did an old time General, and a Casey Jones 4-6-0 tender loco of which I made one of each. All run very well though the motor is small and a bit underpowered for O gauge. The tanks locos behind were factory built americanised german locos.

 

These are / were VERY well designed kits with good instructions and a pleasure to make - including the valve gear !!. Interestingly you bought a loco kit and a separate motorising kit could be bought later, and easy installed to motorize the loco.

 

174916881_DSCF8775CS102rszd.jpg.02a5cfa539fd9c20509d38376b862392.jpg

 

A couple of pages from the assembly instruction manual. red coloured parts are from the motorising kit. VERY well thought out.

 

image.png.8e7b2f2043759062f2c3dda096121760.png

 

image.png.7ca9d3a50fc7244050fd2aeef2786edb.png

 

Img00007.JPG

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
typo
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The only reason for putting Jidenco and London Road in the same sentence was that both include kits from several different designers, the LRM kits I have built have all been good.

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38 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

 

 

A couple of pages from the assembly instruction manual. red coloured parts are from the motorising kit. VERY well thought out.

 

 

 

 

 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/70129856184191298/filePointer/70129856188621571/fodoid/70129856188621552/imageType/LARGE/inlineImage/true/Img00007.JPG

 

Brit15

 

 

That motion bracket has a very "Riddles" look to it.

Edited by Barry Ten
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Good morning Tony

 

Mention of Bec is interesting. I recall you built a  Bec D11 last year, I think it was, or at least fixed one up. I have recently been resurrecting one I originally built about 1973 and rebuilt in the mid 80s, as a test piece to practice lining with a bow pen and a Bob Moore lining pen.  I think I'm getting there slowly? I need to line two C12s, a D2 and D3 for the layout that Gavin is building for which I'm providing the stock (and eventually more of my black LNER locos that should be lined!). Of course in commencing work on the D11 I decided to upgrade it a bit further so I haven't finished lining it yet.  It runs ok and has a Buhler motor with Ultrascale gearbox. I'll post a photo when its finished - you will probably like it with its naval connection - Jutland!

 

In the process I have actually lined the C12 I built late last year but its not quite finished yet and is definitely only a step in my learning on the techniques for lining with pens. I'll need to weather it a bit to mask a few areas that are a bit rough, I'll post a photo of that also when its finished.

 

Regards

 

Andrew

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Here are my two BEC J11's (centre and right) with their Tri-ang chassis on my small Wigan GC layout. Tony will recognize the J10 as I bought it from him a couple of years ago. All were typical Wigan GC locos up to shed closure in 1951.

 

DSCF0993rszd.jpg.e632ca67b34041b8e59bb65e5c71fe7e.jpg

 

After closure the J11's went to Gorton shed and the J10's went to nearby Springs Branch. Here is 65175 in strange surroundings. Springs Branch men apparently liked the J10's, they lasted until the early 60's. The last J10 in service was withdrawn from Springs Branch.

 

h53n5m5c.jpg

 

Brit15

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Has anyone mentioned Centre Models yet? I built one of their RSH 0-4-0ST kits many years ago, powered with an ECM motor (remember them?) instead of the recommended X04. It was all whitemetal, including a crude chassis block, albeit one that was drilled quite accurately. I sold it to a friend and fellow member of this parish back in 2010 or thereabouts - it's still going strong, and is a great load puller. They had several other industrials in their range, if memory serves?

 

Mark

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13 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Has anyone mentioned Centre Models yet? I built one of their RSH 0-4-0ST kits many years ago, powered with an ECM motor (remember them?) instead of the recommended X04. It was all whitemetal, including a crude chassis block, albeit one that was drilled quite accurately. I sold it to a friend and fellow member of this parish back in 2010 or thereabouts - it's still going strong, and is a great load puller. They had several other industrials in their range, if memory serves?

 

Mark

 

I don't think so but here is one that I built. Top is as it came but most of the chassis is scratch.

 

ArthurK

Slide1459A.jpg.6bf6404061693558ba13198e19ae6d7a.jpg

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On 12/09/2019 at 20:51, Tony Wright said:

Of course they're all yours Martin,

 

No one can (or shouldn't even try to) deny you that right.

 

However, on a purely personal note, seeing something which someone has personally made, rather than just bought (whether it be RTR or commission) will always mean more to me. There's a personal story to listen to.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

It will be running with detailed Lima Hornby and some Bachmann blue Diesels, quite a few DMUs, taking turns with a few other steam locos hauling a cut and shut rake of Triang mark 1s converted into TSOs with Replica windows, painted in WR chocolate and cream.

 

I was just annoyed it was not ready for the Gloucester Swindon runs but Clun Castle was an excellent runner.

 

Nothing better to bring back memories of the WR in 80s than lots of Blue and Grey with Green Chocolate and Cream.

 

Wagons are 90% kits.

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No one mentioned Vulcan, I have an 04 as a random preserved one.

 

A1 Hunslet 05 stalled as coupling rods are difficult. And I have lost a couple of bits. This would go on a diorama but I need some London Undergrouind EMUs, luckily thr current owners sent me some nice close ups of the bonnet.

 

Edge family (Michael told me the story) PWM650, stalled due to a lot of DIY in the house.

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