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20 minutes ago, Chamby said:

On the subject of geniuses and invention heroes, it is interesting that all those named thus far reside in the annals of history.  There is a complete dearth of modern day equivalents, at least in the realms of railways and transport engineering.  

 

We are surrounded by bland anonymity, regarding the characters developing our modern railway world.  Is it because the world’s focus has moved on to digital technology and commercial entrepreneurs?  Or is it that Britain just imports all its stuff from elsewhere these days? 

 

Edit: from a Cornish perspective, I’d add Richard Trevithick to the list as well!

Recent history (and ignoring the term Genius, its as overused as Legend and hero), how about Terry Miller MBE?

 

Perhaps strangely in today's celebrity-conscious world, we don't have the high-profile characters in engineering because we acknowledge the whole team involved in the achievements, rather than focus on a single (often rather vain) lead individual?

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On 20/03/2021 at 15:36, Tony Wright said:

 

In case of the A2/3s he reverted to a round dome (even though the perforated steam collector was proven to be superior) and a flat cab front (why?). Even though the Peppercorn A1/A2 boiler was virtually the same as the Thompson A2/3 boiler (individual A2/2s, A2/3s, A1s and A2s carried both types), it reverted to the perforated steam collector, placed further back. 

 

...

 

The further forward dome resulted in water surging into it under heavy braking, and the 'V'-fronted cab (at least with regard to the spectacles) was far superior in reducing reflected glare. Yet, in his new construction A2/3s Thompson chose to discard the perforated steam collector and the 'V-fronted' cab, both reinstated by his successor. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Morning Tony and all,

 

I've read that a freak accident was the motivation for Thompson to dispense with V-fronted cabs. 

 

In the late '30s two A4s passed at speed on up / down expresses while one was picking up from a water trough. A sheet of water shattered the front spectacle glass of one of the engines which fatally injured an inspector riding on the A4's footplate, though driver and fireman were uninjured and able to bring the train to a safe stop. 

 

Thompson firmly believed the overspill would not have smashed the glass if the cab had been a flat-fronted type. Though, whether or not resolving the terms of this uncanny coincidence makes up for severely reduced nighttime visibility is of course up for debate.

 

I'll have a look for the source quote later after work, may well have been from a Cecil J. Allen book. 

 

Cheers,

 

Ollie

Edited by OliverBytham
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1 hour ago, bbishop said:

Andy, One hundred lines: Oliver Vaughan Snell Bulleid

 

The appointment of Bulleid was almost the final act of Sir Herbert Walker in 1937.  He was inherited by Gilbert Szlumper, who was General Manager for less than two years before being seconded to the War Office.  He was replaced by "Useless Eustace" Missenden.

 

The SR Chairmen were Robert Holland-Martin until 1944, then Eric Gore-Brown - both doubled barrelled bankers!  Nuff said?

 

Obviously Useless failed to manage Bulleid, resulting in 30 self-immolating Channel Packets and no less than 110 light pacifics, ok more reliable, but that many?   Szlumper was a bumptious little sh1t, but he could manage people, Useless was a pen pusher.

 

One can speculate what would have happened if Szlumper had stayed.  Would Bulleid have returned to Doncaster?  There would have been the first 20 Channel Packets, obviously, but thereafter?   What the Southern Railway really needed was a modern 4-6-0 on the H15 chassis and (I'm no engineer, so was it possible) the Schools chassis extended to a three cylinder 4-6-0.  So basically a Black 5 and a Jubilee.

 

Bill

 

But the point of Bulleid's Light Pacifics was to equip the Southern with an equivalent to the Black Five and the Jubilee, the V2, the Rebuilt Scot and the Castle. All in one package and with a firebox and boiler that could produce as much steam as anyone might need from the sort of "coal" that would unfortunately become the customary diet of steam locos post-war.

 

They largely delivered that, though both sizes would have been better with the valve gear based on Cock o'the North that Bulleid originally planned, but couldn't get made during the war. The chain driven gear was "Plan B" and, had it really been as bad as some maintain, why didn't BR change it on the last ten MNs and forty lightweights built? Presumably, improvements were made over time or the air-smoothed locos would have disappeared far sooner than they did. A handful remained in service right through to 1967, even though it would have been easy to bung a few of the early-withdrawn Rebuilts through Eastleigh in 1964. 

 

The West Countries also have the widest route availability of any engine in their power classification, and much less restrictive than any of the Urie-derived 4-6-0s.

 

It should also be noted that the de-bugging of the original design that made the Light Pacifics more reliable from new was the result of ongoing in-service development on their big sisters, resulting  in similar improvement to them as the successful modifications were applied retrospectively. 

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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2 hours ago, OliverBytham said:

 

Morning Tony and all,

 

I've read that a freak accident was the motivation for Thompson to dispense with V-fronted cabs. 

 

In the late '30s two A4s passed at speed on up / down expresses while one was picking up from a water trough. A sheet of water shattered the front spectacle glass of one of the engines which fatally injured an inspector riding on the A4's footplate, though driver and fireman were uninjured and able to bring the train to a safe stop. 

 

Thompson firmly believed the overspill would not have smashed the glass if the cab had been a flat-fronted type. Though, whether or not resolving the terms of this uncanny coincidence makes up for severely reduced nighttime visibility is of course up for debate.

 

I'll have a look for the source quote later after work, may well have been from a Cecil J. Allen book. 

 

Cheers,

 

Ollie

Thanks Ollie,

 

I think it lead to the spectacles being replaced with armoured Triplex glass. 

 

I'm not sure how a flat-fronted cab would have prevented such an accident. I would have thought it would have less deflective tendencies.

 

Anyway, the incident was unique, and the lack of internal reflection was a far safer option.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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Another request, please....................

 

61672.jpg.b05b59a77887dbdf7d2875d6faf07c8e.jpg

 

Anyone know where this is? 

 

Large buildings in the background and to the left, and carriage sidings to the right.

 

The loco is either shedded at Stratford or Ipswich (no date is given, though it's high summer - the train heating pipe at the front is missing) and it's clearly a GE-section service.

 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

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This delightful old K's ROD has just arrived through the post as a donation to CRUK (thanks Stewart)........................

 

1921558836_KsROD.jpg.65eb54c96cf679cf168ed411191d9868.jpg

 

Unsurprisingly, it doesn't run. I'll repair/rebuild it, fit new wheels, a new motor gearbox and paint/weather it. Then see what it's worth. 

 

I'm reminded of the K's ROD I built..........................

 

1051925140_O4363701.jpg.33dd167839775de4e8512e704cb8f842.jpg

 

Near on 50 years ago now, and still running on LB (though with no K's mechanical parts!). 

 

 

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On 21/03/2021 at 14:38, richard i said:

What about usa designers. The Pennsylvanian k4 was some of the inspiration for Gresley’s a1 pacific. Others went over too for ideas. Robinson for example is one. The USA had locos of any size long before the uk got round to them.

richard 

This is a bit late to the party, but "Yes" what about US designers? I don't know who designed the NYC Niagara S1b 4-8-4 steam locos but Alco built them in 1945 & they came to be considered as one of the most efficient steam locomotives ever, though like the BR 9Fs they too were a bit late to the party as the diesels took over in the USA. Nevertheless with 6,000 hp they ran for long stretches at 100 mph initially on New York to Chicago (928 miles) trains 6 days a week covering 26,000 miles a month. The NYC conducted very well executed tests comparing them against 2-unit & 3-unit E7 diesels & found that the overall costs were less than for the 2-unit E7s & the same as for the 3-unit E7s.

 

William580157415_nyc6000.jpg.26b1269648fe9a15f92e96330eb872a8.jpg

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2 hours ago, gr.king said:

Excuse the scepticism, but which features of the new arrival were you thinking of as "delightful"?

Good question.....................

 

It's certainly unique, in need of a lot of TLC (and a good scrub) and at least the wheels can be used to represent scrap. 

 

I rather 'delight' in resurrecting abandoned old locos like this, though you're right in your scepticism. 

 

Let's see what it looks like when I've finished.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Ollie,

 

I think it lead to the spectacles being replaced with armoured Triplex glass. 

 

I'm not sure how a flat-fronted cab would have prevented such an accident. I would have thought it would have less deflective tendencies.

 

Anyway, the incident was unique, and the lack of internal reflection was a far safer option.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Whilst unusual , this incident was not unique , I have read of other similar incidents including one on a Peppercorn pacific during the 1950's . Fortunately the fireman was firing at the time & thus escaped injury .

  The water would hit a flat fronted cab at a greater angle rather than head on . Thompson pressed Gresley into fitting armoured glass but when the A.2/3 was being designed this was not available , all supplies going to the armed forces .

   It must also be said that with the limited view through the spectacle plate most drivers leaned out of the cab to see .

                Ray 

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Ollie,

 

I think it lead to the spectacles being replaced with armoured Triplex glass. 

 

I'm not sure how a flat-fronted cab would have prevented such an accident. I would have thought it would have less deflective tendencies.

 

Anyway, the incident was unique, and the lack of internal reflection was a far safer option.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 


Indeed, Tony. And O. S. Nock would’ve agreed...

 

The story and its aftermath are from his ‘The Gresley Pacifics’, not an Allen memoir as I misremembered earlier.

 

BB6BB4D1-F20F-4BC4-919C-FCA5C209889E.jpeg.9510d495aa7f5e24b5e58cfcc6ca95b5.jpeg

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At least this pair of dead spiders must have thought that the old K's ROD tender was a 'delightful' residence. At least for a time.

 

86879773_KsROD02.jpg.5515e0d8850137848ab842056ee10b2b.jpg

 

I think new pick-ups might be needed as well...........................

 

I have no room to talk. I sold an A2/1 to a friend a couple of years ago, and when he took the loco body off to install a DCC chip, he found a great big dead spider inside!

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You can tidy up those Ks O4s with no extreme effort if you're so minded.  Two-thirds of mine came from Ebay, the rest from the then proprietor of NuCast as spares.  It's been plodding round Grantham ever since I became involved, bent handrail and all (Sir's photo):

 

TW_Grantham_Nottingham_8_small.jpg.89816da6b87b28c901d9e21980865d3f.jpg

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Still not a word on that picture of 61672.

 

I'm stumped. 

Sorry, Tony. Not really my part of the world.

 

Can anyone say whether that disc code indicates the GE mainline Liverpool St-Ipswich-Norwich? It certainly looks like a decent express train.

 

With the sun on the front end like that it looks to be heading south-ish. I did wonder if it was just leaving Norwich, with the fag end of Crown Point depot in the right background but - apparently - there's a bridge across the river at this point!

 

Just in case that prompts a thought or two from any more familiar with the locale ... ? I do like a good where-izzit!

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4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Maybe he means 'delightful' in the sense I used 'fun' when referring to a Jidenco kit?

 

This was all my old K's ROD ended up being good for ...

 

 

IMG_3853.JPG

Is that loco still not fixed? 
 

Been a few years now......

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50 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

You can tidy up those Ks O4s with no extreme effort if you're so minded.  Two-thirds of mine came from Ebay, the rest from the then proprietor of NuCast as spares.  It's been plodding round Grantham ever since I became involved, bent handrail and all (Sir's photo):

 

TW_Grantham_Nottingham_8_small.jpg.89816da6b87b28c901d9e21980865d3f.jpg

I spy with my little eye something beginning with T 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I have no room to talk. I sold an A2/1 to a friend a couple of years ago, and when he took the loco body off to install a DCC chip, he found a great big dead spider inside!

And the loco was Robert The Bruce. Spooky spider connection, eh?

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