John Tomlinson Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The “square axleboxes” cause me concern for long-term use. They do wear visibly; quite quickly at first. I suppose it’s too much to hope that the new regime will have enough pride in the product to cast a new chassis, apply separate cab handrails and check the paint. Perhaps unlikely if these are still coming out with the wrong bogie wheels – surely not the most difficult thing to fix. I'm sure you're right about long term use, in my case I have quite a few locos and don't run any of them that much, so it maybe they'll be going when I'm not! Or, as my Dad used to say, "it should see me out". I think the Bachmann A1 & A2's don't have bearings either, though its a while since I took mine to bits, and they seem to run OK after a few years, although two wrongs obviously don't make a right. I'd be reluctant to take a wheel off an axle in order to slide in something like Romford bearings, having filed the chassis down accordingly, but I suppose it could be done. A lower risk solution would be to cut half bearings that could be glued into filed down axle spaces, so that the axles needn't have wheels removed, but then I haven't tried this either. The moulded handrails seem to me pretty unforgiveable, and as many have said it would be better to leave them off altogether and let the punter make and fit some if he or she wished, rather than have to risk damaging the paint finish. Thankfully "design clever" seems dead and buried, lets hope it never rises from the grave! My "British Monarch" I think comes with 10 spoke wheels, which were part of the Hornby inventory anyway, so just sloppy research in not getting this right on some of the variants. My model also had some bits loose in the box, the lower tender frames (with springs and axleboxes) and the smokebox dart. It must have been a low glue day when mine was put together, something I don't mind as it's easily fixed, and far better than the alternative, particularly if I follow Coachmann's method of changing the nameplates. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted August 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 3, 2018 I'm sure you're right about long term use, in my case I have quite a few locos and don't run any of them that much, so it maybe they'll be going when I'm not! Or, as my Dad used to say, "it should see me out". I think the Bachmann A1 & A2's don't have bearings either, though its a while since I took mine to bits, and they seem to run OK after a few years, although two wrongs obviously don't make a right. I'd be reluctant to take a wheel off an axle in order to slide in something like Romford bearings, having filed the chassis down accordingly, but I suppose it could be done. A lower risk solution would be to cut half bearings that could be glued into filed down axle spaces, so that the axles needn't have wheels removed, but then I haven't tried this either. The moulded handrails seem to me pretty unforgiveable, and as many have said it would be better to leave them off altogether and let the punter make and fit some if he or she wished, rather than have to risk damaging the paint finish. Thankfully "design clever" seems dead and buried, lets hope it never rises from the grave! My "British Monarch" I think comes with 10 spoke wheels, which were part of the Hornby inventory anyway, so just sloppy research in not getting this right on some of the variants. My model also had some bits loose in the box, the lower tender frames (with springs and axleboxes) and the smokebox dart. It must have been a low glue day when mine was put together, something I don't mind as it's easily fixed, and far better than the alternative, particularly if I follow Coachmann's method of changing the nameplates. John. There's always room for cosmetic improvement on a Star, it just depends on how far you want to go.. Take this version Knight of Thistle below (she started life as Knight of St Patrick) Incorrect bogie wheels (replaced FOC, by Hornby) - produced after British Monarch. Whistles replaced with Modelu 3D printed ones (with shield) Hand rails replaced. Repainted in Post War GWR Unlined Green. I use the same method as Larry for doing the Nameplates - it's the same for all but one of the current Hornby crop of GWR 4-6-0's (the odd ball being the Grange). 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) There's always room for cosmetic improvement on a Star, it just depends on how far you want to go.. Take this version Knight of Thistle below (she started life as Knight of St Patrick) 4012_rhfan.jpg Incorrect bogie wheels (replaced FOC, by Hornby) - produced after British Monarch. Whistles replaced with Modelu 3D printed ones (with shield) Hand rails replaced. Repainted in Post War GWR Unlined Green. I use the same method as Larry for doing the Nameplates - it's the same for all but one of the current Hornby crop of GWR 4-6-0's (the odd ball being the Grange). Yes, that's come out well, and helpful perhaps that the scheme doesn't involve lining! One observation if I may. The official distance between loco and tender on GW engines is 8 inches, so 3mm less a smidge to us. I don't know what your curves are like, but I've found I can get down to this on my 27 inch minimum radius layout. On Hornby locos with Satan's plug, such as this, I cut the supplied linkage in half after measuring the spacing it gives, then cut the two parts down to give the 3mm minus, both then soldered together with a brass strip across the join for strength. The improvement is noticeable, and would be the finishing touch to a model such as yours that has clearly received such careful attention. John. Edited August 4, 2018 by John Tomlinson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted August 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2018 Yes, that's come out well, and helpful perhaps that the scheme doesn't involve lining! One observation if I may. The official distance between loco and tender on GW engines is 8 inches, so 3mm less a smidge to us. I don't know what your curves are like, but I've found I can get down to this on my 27 inch minimum radius layout. On Hornby locos with Satan's plug, such as this, I cut the supplied linkage in half after measuring the spacing it gives, then cut the two parts down to give the 3mm minus, both then soldered together with a brass strip across the join for strength. The improvement is noticeable, and would be the finishing touch to a model such as yours that has clearly received such careful attention. John. I just do what a client asks... .. though if you think doing an unlined Star is easy - good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I just do what a client asks... .. though if you think doing an unlined Star is easy - good luck. Not at all, just less work than one with lining. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted August 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 4, 2018 Not at all, just less work than one with lining. John. Removing the lining is the challenge.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Removing the lining is the challenge.. My comment meant adding lining to the newly finished model, I need to be more precise in my use of English. Of course you are right, as presumably if the original lining isn't removed it shows through, at least to the extent of the thickness of the tampo printing if not the actual colour. Do you strip back to the original plastic shell? John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted August 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 5, 2018 My comment meant adding lining to the newly finished model, I need to be more precise in my use of English. Of course you are right, as presumably if the original lining isn't removed it shows through, at least to the extent of the thickness of the tampo printing if not the actual colour. Do you strip back to the original plastic shell? John. I don't fully strip the loco, I try and remove as much of the lining and printing as possible using micro sol and/or fine wet & dry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted October 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2018 Bump on the thread, a few of questions for those far more knowledgeable on the class than I am.. Firstly does any one know, when 4018 Knight of the Grand Cross was painted in Wartime Black and when she was repainted post war? Secondly is there any info, as to when she got a Collett 4,000 gallon tender post war*? *I have a photo of her dated July 45, still with a Churchward Tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) "Design Clever" lives!!! Today felt like déjà vu to me with the announcement of R3684, GWR, Star Class, 4-6-0, 4003 'Lode Star' - Era 3 in the 2020 announcements. I know this is a photoshop job. It looks exactly like the announcement of the Star from seven years ago. Is this just lazy, convenient or a portent of things to come? The cabside "shelf" instead of a handrail is still there. The cab fallplate glued at 45° providing the fireman a ~2" scale drop to shovel coal from the tender is still there. Close inspection of the enlarged image on the Hornby website shows 12 spokes on the pilot bogie. I also note that it is branded as: RAILWAY MUSEUM Anyone have a clue what that means? Some items in the 2020 announcements are branded as "RAILROAD PLUS" so this is new and different. And when will we see a Collett "GREAT WESTERN" livery on a Hornby GWR passenger locomotive? I'm delighted for Shirtbutton fans who historically haven't had much to choose from but the only recent mainline passenger GWR locomotive in a couple of years was GWR, Castle Class, 4-6-0, 5076 ‘Drysllwyn Castle', again with the shirtbutton. Actually, if I'm honest, I wouldn't buy another one of these Saints until the glaring visible defects are addressed anyway. Not for something selling for £180. Hornby is celebrating their centennial. If this image represents the final product as released, I really wonder about how well this company can muddle through to their 102nd anniversary, while running at a £2.4m loss (through September 2019) and today announcing a £3m loan to get them through to the middle of 2021. Edited January 7, 2020 by Ozexpatriate 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted January 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2020 Railway Museum is the new logo of the National Railway Museum. This will be an NRM edition loco with the new logo on the box. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said: Railway Museum is the new logo of the National Railway Museum. This will be an NRM edition loco with the new logo on the box. That explains why it is Lode Star (and why the shirtbutton) - given that the first Star made by Hornby was Lode Star in a "GREAT <arms> WESTERN" livery for STEAM. Am I missing anything from the following list of Stars made by Hornby, along with their first appearance in a catalogue: No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (GREAT <arms> WESTERN) for STEAM No. 4018 - Knight of the Grand Cross .. (shirt button) ...... 2013 Catalogue No. 4061 - Glastonbury Abbey .............. (Early BR) ............ 2013 Catalogue No. 4021 - British Monarch .................... (Early BR) ........... 2014 Catalogue No. 4013 - Knight of St. Patrick .............. (G <arms> W) .... 2016 Catalogue No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (shirt button) ..... 2020 Catalogue (for NRM) Presumably Hornby would not even do this without the NRM sponsoring it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted January 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Ozexpatriate said: That explains why it is Lode Star (and why the shirtbutton) - given that the first Star made by Hornby was Lode Star in a "GREAT <arms> WESTERN" livery for STEAM. Am I missing anything from the following list of Stars made by Hornby, along with their first appearance in a catalogue: No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (GREAT <arms> WESTERN) for STEAM No. 4018 - Knight of the Grand Cross .. (shirt button) ...... 2013 Catalogue No. 4061 - Glastonbury Abbey .............. (Early BR) ............ 2013 Catalogue No. 4021 - British Monarch .................... (Early BR) ........... 2014 Catalogue No. 4013 - Knight of St. Patrick .............. (G <arms> W) .... 2016 Catalogue No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (shirt button) ..... 2020 Catalogue (for NRM) Presumably Hornby would not even do this without the NRM sponsoring it. I think that’s the full list of Stars so far. Just because it’s got their name on the box, doesn’t mean they are sponsoring the model though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Ozexpatriate said: That explains why it is Lode Star (and why the shirtbutton) - given that the first Star made by Hornby was Lode Star in a "GREAT <arms> WESTERN" livery for STEAM. Am I missing anything from the following list of Stars made by Hornby, along with their first appearance in a catalogue: No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (GREAT <arms> WESTERN) for STEAM No. 4018 - Knight of the Grand Cross .. (shirt button) ...... 2013 Catalogue No. 4061 - Glastonbury Abbey .............. (Early BR) ............ 2013 Catalogue No. 4021 - British Monarch .................... (Early BR) ........... 2014 Catalogue No. 4013 - Knight of St. Patrick .............. (G <arms> W) .... 2016 Catalogue No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (shirt button) ..... 2020 Catalogue (for NRM) Presumably Hornby would not even do this without the NRM sponsoring it. 4050 Princess Alice was done in a set. Think it was a Troop Train pack as had three clerestory coaches also. Not sure of the year and very few were produced and command high prices. I got mine a few months back from a second hand charity shop that didn’t know what it was and were going to throw it out as they’re not allowed to sell anything electrical. It’s in perfect condition and had never been run as box was still sealed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Updated: No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (GREAT <arms> WESTERN) for STEAM No. 4018 - Knight of the Grand Cross .. (shirt button) ......................... 2013 Catalogue No. 4061 - Glastonbury Abbey .............. (Early BR) ............................... 2013 Catalogue No. 4021 - British Monarch .................... (Early BR) ............................... 2014 Catalogue No. 4050 - Princess Alice ........................ (GREAT WESTERN, unlined) .... 2015 Catalogue (Troop train pack with 3 x Clerestory coaches) No. 4013 - Knight of St. Patrick .............. (G <arms> W) ....................... 2016 Catalogue No. 4003 - Lode Star ............................... (shirt button) ........................ 2020 Catalogue (for NRM) 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said: "Design Clever" lives!!! Today felt like déjà vu to me with the announcement of R3684, GWR, Star Class, 4-6-0, 4003 'Lode Star' - Era 3 in the 2020 announcements. I know this is a photoshop job. It looks exactly like the announcement of the Star from seven years ago. Is this just lazy, convenient or a portent of things to come? The cabside "shelf" instead of a handrail is still there. The cab fallplate glued at 45° providing the fireman a ~2" scale drop to shovel coal from the tender is still there. Close inspection of the enlarged image on the Hornby website shows 12 spokes on the pilot bogie. I also note that it is branded as: RAILWAY MUSEUM Anyone have a clue what that means? Some items in the 2020 announcements are branded as "RAILROAD PLUS" so this is new and different. And when will we see a Collett "GREAT WESTERN" livery on a Hornby GWR passenger locomotive? I'm delighted for Shirtbutton fans who historically haven't had much to choose from but the only recent mainline passenger GWR locomotive in a couple of years was GWR, Castle Class, 4-6-0, 5076 ‘Drysllwyn Castle', again with the shirtbutton. Actually, if I'm honest, I wouldn't buy another one of these Saints until the glaring visible defects are addressed anyway. Not for something selling for £180. Hornby is celebrating their centennial. If this image represents the final product as released, I really wonder about how well this company can muddle through to their 102nd anniversary, while running at a £2.4m loss (through September 2019) and today announcing a £3m loan to get them through to the middle of 2021. I think - as ever - that we should not be too misled by Hornby's release/catalogue images which are in many cases what their computer operator has generated for them. But having said that are we to (could we?) expect them to retool the various failings/'design clever' features of the earlier versions? interesting question and I suspect that we know the answer - unless we are going to be hugely surprised? And would the NRM accept it without various tooling tweaks in view of the standard of various models they are now marketing - that's an interesting question too. Overall unless they do sort at least one of the errors (we all know which one) I do wonder about their commitment. But I also wonder about anybody's ability to make a good return selling GWR 'shirt button' livery models - it has never seemed to be a popular. But in this case it could well turn out to be the NRM which carries the financial risk and it is of course working now in a different and widened market which will not necessarily be as finicky or as 'anti shirt button' as the traditional UK GWR market. So despite its possible shortcomings it could do well simply because it is GWR and being marketed through the NRM. So where does that take Hornby when it comes to your final paragraph? Well a lot of what they have announced will not be going into the 'true modeller' part of the market with plenty in there for collectors (various) and a much wider range of outlets than the normal purveyors of model railways. Thus I can see some models being sell outs 'at the factory' which is what Hornby needs for financial security or advancement although I still wonder just how some newly announced models might actually turn a profit and generate a sufficient return - even one of the 'nostalgia' items is in incorrect boxes ('Duchess of Atholl' is - it came in a plain blue box in the 1940s). So I think we will see what we see but overall I don't think the latest version of the 'Star' is going to be any sort of portent for Hornby's real future. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 42 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: I think - as ever - that we should not be too misled by Hornby's release/catalogue images which are in many cases what their computer operator has generated for them. But having said that are we to (could we?) expect them to retool the various failings/'design clever' features of the earlier versions? interesting question and I suspect that we know the answer - unless we are going to be hugely surprised? And would the NRM accept it without various tooling tweaks in view of the standard of various models they are now marketing - that's an interesting question too. Overall unless they do sort at least one of the errors (we all know which one) I do wonder about their commitment. But I also wonder about anybody's ability to make a good return selling GWR 'shirt button' livery models - it has never seemed to be a popular. But in this case it could well turn out to be the NRM which carries the financial risk and it is of course working now in a different and widened market which will not necessarily be as finicky or as 'anti shirt button' as the traditional UK GWR market. So despite its possible shortcomings it could do well simply because it is GWR and being marketed through the NRM. So where does that take Hornby when it comes to your final paragraph? Well a lot of what they have announced will not be going into the 'true modeller' part of the market with plenty in there for collectors (various) and a much wider range of outlets than the normal purveyors of model railways. Thus I can see some models being sell outs 'at the factory' which is what Hornby needs for financial security or advancement although I still wonder just how some newly announced models might actually turn a profit and generate a sufficient return - even one of the 'nostalgia' items is in incorrect boxes ('Duchess of Atholl' is - it came in a plain blue box in the 1940s). So I think we will see what we see but overall I don't think the latest version of the 'Star' is going to be any sort of portent for Hornby's real future. Since Duchess of Atholl is not the Hornby Dublo tooling, but a new model, the box colour isnt really such a big deal. These anniversary models are a nod to the past. In the same way, Evening Star in a triang Hornby box is far removed from the original silver seal model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said: "Design Clever" lives!!! Today felt like déjà vu to me with the announcement of R3684, GWR, Star Class, 4-6-0, 4003 'Lode Star' - Era 3 in the 2020 announcements. I know this is a photoshop job. It looks exactly like the announcement of the Star from seven years ago. Is this just lazy, convenient or a portent of things to come? The cabside "shelf" instead of a handrail is still there. The cab fallplate glued at 45° providing the fireman a ~2" scale drop to shovel coal from the tender is still there. Close inspection of the enlarged image on the Hornby website shows 12 spokes on the pilot bogie. I also note that it is branded as: RAILWAY MUSEUM Anyone have a clue what that means? Some items in the 2020 announcements are branded as "RAILROAD PLUS" so this is new and different. And when will we see a Collett "GREAT WESTERN" livery on a Hornby GWR passenger locomotive? I'm delighted for Shirtbutton fans who historically haven't had much to choose from but the only recent mainline passenger GWR locomotive in a couple of years was GWR, Castle Class, 4-6-0, 5076 ‘Drysllwyn Castle', again with the shirtbutton. Actually, if I'm honest, I wouldn't buy another one of these Saints until the glaring visible defects are addressed anyway. Not for something selling for £180. Hornby is celebrating their centennial. If this image represents the final product as released, I really wonder about how well this company can muddle through to their 102nd anniversary, while running at a £2.4m loss (through September 2019) and today announcing a £3m loan to get them through to the middle of 2021. Hornby retooled the chassis for the GWR eight-coupled tanks, although the shelf wasn’t fixed, so far as I’m aware. A re-issue of the old model would not be welcome. Into the bargain, it would be pleasing if Hornby were to pass the model over to Bachmann for a decent paint application. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG 7305 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Leaving aside the various liveries we have had 2 of the 3 steam pipe options, the third seems to be being ignored: Produced: Inside type - As built. Elbow - outside from boiler but inside pipe type to cylinders. Ignored: Full Castle - still waiting........... Please see RCTS for locomotives and dates. I have purchased examples of the first 2 but I am still waiting for one with full Castle pipes, this since the model was introduced. Mr Hornby, please take note. Back to liveries, I model the GWR so "Monogram" or "G Crest W" (preferred) would be great. Best regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG 7305 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) On 07/01/2020 at 13:10, No Decorum said: And when will we see a Collett "GREAT WESTERN" livery on a Hornby GWR passenger locomotive? You won't. The section on locomotive liveries in the RCTS series (vol 1, Preliminary Survery) is somewhat opaque but my understanding is that post WW1: Until 1927 - Stars, Saints, Castles, KIngs and Halls had "Great - Garter Crest - Western". At the introduction of 6000 King George V, the GWR asked the Palace for permission to name their latest express passenger engine after the King. This was graciously granted but the College of Arms took the opportunity to step in and point out that the Garter Coat of Arms was being used without Royal permission and was incorrect in this application. Therefore the GWR took note and ceased to use the Garter Coat of Arms and 6000 was the last locomotive so painted. All "lesser" classes had the "Great Western" you refer to on their tenders and tanks. In 1934 the monogram was introduced. These exceptions I am aware of, no doubt there are many others: In the early years (ie 1922) after WW1 Stars at least came out with "Great Western" without Garter Crest (4061 built 1922 for example) The 72xx came out post 1934 with "Great Western" on the tanks but they were rebuilt from brand new 5201 class and on rebuild the only change was behind the cab, no need to repaint the tanks. The GWR was very thrifty. I look forward to reading informed comments on this. Edited January 24, 2020 by MG 7305 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 Livery wise so far we have had what j believe to be the least common post war version in lined G crest W, rather than the much more common unlined green (or wartime black). I did my star in the latter (it’s still waiting on new cab handrails fitting) 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I would question the commercial viability of a Star with Castle pipes. Firstly, there weren't that many of them (13), and secondly, a new cylinder set and height-setting would be required (a comparatively expensive bit of tooling), In anycase, I imagine the majority of Star fans like the distinctive style of the original inside pipes. Those people who want something looking more like a Castle will buy, err, a Castle. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coppercap Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, The Fatadder said: Livery wise so far we have had what j believe to be the least common post war version in lined G crest W, rather than the much more common unlined green (or wartime black). I did my star in the latter (it’s still waiting on new cab handrails fitting) Not got new front bogie wheels yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG 7305 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 But I have already got Castles 4073 narrow Vauxhall front frames, 4073 wider Vauxhall front frames, 5013 Collet tender and 5013 Hawksworth tender. It is the Star family that is missing a variation. Please do not shatter my dreams! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted January 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Coppercap said: Not got new front bogie wheels yet? It does now, though I didn’t check on the photo which was taken after I finished adding transfers a couple of years ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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