Two Varney 1000 hp EMD switchers, all metal version, from 1940's

[alcoRS1]

Got it! Was thinking of using krystal klear or similar to make windows, I don't know yet, that's another trick I'm looking to overcome.

 

The Cary shells that Bowser has are remaining stock, when they're gone, they're gone for good!

 

Cary Bodies

 

I stand corrected on the price, they're actually cheaper, $34.44 - - Also, don't know where my head was, it's the FM switcher I was referring to. Only the PITT remains for steam.

 

the trick I found to make windows, just did this for my brass RS-1, is to use styrene clear plastic, cut to the window side, then using krystal klear, put a little around the inside of the windows edges, and it should bond the plastic to the metal, it dries clear, but you would want to keep it off the viewing par of the glass. I use krystal klear for the light lens, just put a dab in the light hole.

[thnksno]

loving that Alco S2/S4.

 

Thank you sir! I was actually pleasantly surprised to find it instead of the advertised SW1500... You don't want to know what I paid for the SW1500. Seems I've been battling a 'hoarder' and when I found a misspelled/unidentified/mis-categorized/poorly pictured listing I plunked my name down on it and rode it to the end with nobody else paying attention. IT WAS A STEAL! lol... A few days later the package arrived including the S2/S4, I was very happy!

[bertiedog]

mircoscales Krystal Klear is great for that.

 

I have used microscale Krystal klear, and it works well for this size lens, but it simply cannot form a domed glass lens front, only dead flat panes, and epoxy has the advantage of being near indestructible when compared to the Klear product.

 

If the optic fibre is single strand plastic, as most simpler model types are, (like fibre optic Xmas Trees, a great source!), then heat will form a nice lens. It simply will not work with glass optic fibre, the multi strand types, these will need the epoxy end if it has a domed end like most lamp lens usually have.

 

 

This PRR lamp cover is domed, other Nw-2's are flat, or two domed lamps side by side. for making special lamps like markers, Loctite make a totally clear epoxy, (as do most makers), but the Loctite version seems more easily available.

 

One problem with slightly blue white LED's is that the light turns greenish through yellow epoxy, so make sure the LED is true white type. The clear Loctite epoxy has no colour itself, if coloured marker lights are needed add the colour at the other end of the guide with a coloured LED.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

To join the LED lamp, (any colour), to the guide use electrical heat shrink (black), no glue, it makes a perfect pluggable joint to the fibre optic guide, for disassembly later on as well.

 

 

The Heat Shrink type is 3mm black poly 3:1 shrink, (closes to 1mmm bore), this is commonly supplied for fishing floats! 3mm will take most Leds bodies. Do not buy glue lined versions if you want to make it un-pluggable.

 

Useful size for lots of model insulation and covers for wiring, available freely on Ebay. (2mm and 1mm done as well).

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Heat Shrink, and a different experimental Window method.

 

I am going to use black heat shrink for another use on the handrails, the stanchion bases, I tried some ordinary insulation tonight, but it was a bit too thick, and I have used the heat shrink insulation before, it is thinner, and they do a 1mm that shrinks to .3mm or so.

 

The stanchions are the bases where the hand rail enters the structure of the footplate, it looks wrong if left off. Doing them in brass is extremely fiddly on the lathe, but easy with heat shrink tubing, slip on a longer than needed piece and shrink, and then trim with scalpel to size. It takes paint all right as well as gripping to stay in place.

 

Some is on order tonight from Ebay for both the Varney locos, 99 pence worth!!

 

Still trying to work out a way of doing the flush glazing needed.....I am going to experiment with an etching process, first taking an accurate outline tracing of the windows pattern directly from the Varney body castings.

 

By transferring to approx 3mm thick brass, I think I can take advantage of the "undercut" problem that plagues metal etching, in that the etch goes down, but also under the edge of the metal etch outline.

 

If the metal is etched down about .5mm it will have also have undercut the resist areas and leave a raised pattern .5mm approx smaller all round than the original window pattern .

 

The sharp edge of the undercut can be filed away, or further etched a bit without resist, and then filed, and mirror polished, thus making a polished brass plate vacuum mould, with the window pattern .5mm smaller all round.

 

Then the plate can have a vacuum moulded sheet of poly sucked on to it, resulting hopefully in a perfect set of windows for each face of the cab, except for the side windows, which easy to do separately.

 

I think it will work, I am certainly not cutting out two complete sets of curved and rounded edged individual windows!

 

If it works then each piece can be slipped in at the very last point of finishing, with a bit of double sided tape to hold each sheet.

 

The edge of each window pane could be painted with black acrylic, and any on the window face simply wiped away, leaving the effect of a rubber window surround as well. Acrylic paint will not attack, or mark, the poly sheet windows in any way. The plastic between each pane can be painted the cab interior colour to completely mask it from view.

 

I can only try it out and see if it works.

 

I did do the 4mm scale prototype Deltic, (Kitmaster based), in a similar vacuum formed way, but with hand filed brass blanks many years ago, this gave perfect windows with the very desirable black surround.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Very nice HO body shells, but expensive if ordered in from the United States, the cost of the US mail to over here is higher than the body shells cost by quite a bit!

 

I have been looking at other older Varney items from Ebay, but the postage is crippling on the journey from the States, plus risk of import duty is higher on such items with high postage shown.

 

Stuff that comes from China Post costs peanuts compared to US Mail, although on Ebay a lot of Chinese suppliers load the postage charge up. to supply items at seemingly super low buy it now prices.

 

Stephen.

[thnksno]

You need to work with someone in the US, like me. lol!

 

I just checked USPS and a priority mail flat rate, up to 4 pounds and maximum $400 value is only $12.78 to the UK? That's cheaper than some sellers tack on to go from Georgia to Illinois! But still 1/3 the retail value of the item.

 

I'm going to pick up a FM this week, if you want one let me know I'll add it to my order and ship it out, we can settle up on paypal just the same as eBay.

[bertiedog]

You need to work with someone in the US, like me. lol!

 

I just checked USPS and a priority mail flat rate, up to 4 pounds and maximum $400 value is only $12.78 to the UK? That's cheaper than some sellers tack on to go from Georgia to Illinois! But still 1/3 the retail value of the item.

 

I'm going to pick up a FM this week, if you want one let me know I'll add it to my order and ship it out, we can settle up on paypal just the same as eBay.

 

I have got to leave it for a while, there is an Ebay item to come first, thanks for the offer. The post rate are the quotes on Ebay, a bit loaded to say the least.

 

I once had a very odd and somewhat disconcerting experience with Roundhouse, and some missing parts and the US Postal System.

 

There were some side rods missing, so to speed things along I sent International Reply paid coupons, paid for this end , they are redeemable in the US Mail for a fully paid up return, only to have the items turn up with Roundhouse paying the postage and returning .. quote from memory.....

 

"The Unusable Socialist State Reply coupons that are not recognised in the United States of America Postal service, and please make sure that I do not send such items ever again"........

 

......Perhaps questioning Roundhouse's shipping departments grasp on reality in relation to both the International Postal System and Politics anywhere outside the Good ol' USA!!!

 

In the late 1950's/early 1960's getting a US company to understand there was a customer outside the US was somewhat of a difficult problem for some well known model supply companies, who I will not name as they are still in business.....amazingly!!!

 

Stephen

[thnksno]

It's funny, now a days everything is international... Especially this great knowledge base we're chatting on now. Pretty amazing, I doubt you and I would have ever crossed paths back in the 50-60's unless one was a celebrity in this hobby, which I definitely am not. lol! Trains have been an on again - off again thing for me primarily because of spacial reasons. My house is modest sized, I do have a basement and too many interests, none I specialize in but R/C aircraft is where I show most competence. Plus kids take up a lot of room. So I keep it small and steep for now, switchers are good along with other small diesels. I got into the cast metal in effort to add weight and run them smooth and sloooow.

 

Your pictures, detail and resourcefulness are inspirational.

[bertiedog]

It's funny, now a days everything is international... Especially this great knowledge base we're chatting on now. Pretty amazing, I doubt you and I would have ever crossed paths back in the 50-60's unless one was a celebrity in this hobby, which I definitely am not. lol! Trains have been an on again - off again thing for me primarily because of spacial reasons. My house is modest sized, I do have a basement and too many interests, none I specialize in but R/C aircraft is where I show most competence. Plus kids take up a lot of room. So I keep it small and steep for now, switchers are good along with other small diesels. I got into the cast metal in effort to add weight and run them smooth and sloooow

Your pictures, detail and resourcefulness are inspirational.

 

I think we grew up in the UK with the export or die mentality to pay the countries way after the UK wartime bankruptcy, but often the impression with some from companies in the US was .. why bother, the US market was so huge they did not even want to export in smaller ways, big deals, yes, IBM or Boeing size, but sell models abroad??

 

Fortunately there were some enthusiastic UK importers, (at a price), who kept US supplies going in the UK, and now of course we share the same Chinese makers all over the world, suppliers can't keep markets to themselves. Trouble is these days so much is plastic, and it does not run as well, despite some modellers trying to convince me otherwise.

 

A friends collection of Varney and Lindsay, and Bowser etc, ran so much better than anything else, it provided the reason to model US outline, add in the best Japanese made models and it was a delightful recipe compared to Tri-ang and Hornby in the UK. The US models worked, and worked hard, and well in use, but supplies were appalling at times. UK taxes took their toll as well, with import duties at astonishing rates.

 

The running qualities of US outline still staggers some UK modellers, I demonstrated a 1950's Tenshodo made brass Niagara the other week, unused and un-sold, bought from the States from a closed store, you know one of the "early noisy unreliable brass locos", except this one ticks over at about a foot a minute, is near silent at low speed, and all original parts, and pulls like blazes, all with the Japanese motor as well.

 

If that's what was supplied to the US markets, why was the UK served up with so much toy makers rubbish? It was shown with a PRR Bowser Pacific, which can pull the Niagara backwards in silence, and a Varney Old Lady, now that's one showing it's age a bit.

 

As standard no fine details, but this one has about half of Kemtrons catalogues lost wax brass details added by the previous owner!!!, all dating from a period when such details were completely unknown in the UK, the 1940's.

 

Well, times have changed and it's sad that Bowser are forced to cease manufacture in the States, but at least overall the market is healthy for both models and the toy market as well. I don't think the US quite suffers such polarity as between the toy market and fine models, in the UK accusing somebody of playing with toy trains is tantamount to a challenge to a duel of honour for insulting him!!! Personally I am far more interested in building trains than running them, but not for cabinet display, but proper use, fine running is vital.

 

Anyway back to the Varney pair, and bringing the detail level up to what could be achieved 50 years ago, if you tried hard enough!! ( Stands back, and waits for latest plastic wonder to be shown!!)... the wonder is whether some will still be running in 50 more years?

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Anybody got a nice old brass shell for a Geep?.....I got two Kemtron lost Wax cast Brass Pilots from Ebay tonight at 99 pence, just need the rest of the GP to go with it!!

 

Seriously I will have to look out for a plastic bodied model to do up with these rather nice ends. I noticed them in a search for Kemtron ends for the NW-2, none of those of course!, but these were too good to pass up on.

Stephen.

 

 

 

[bertiedog]

And another one!!!.....from US Ebay, a 1949 Un-assembled Lindsay 1000 HP switcher kit, in original box, complete, bar a missing handrail. Spotted completely by chance looking for Kemtron NW-2 parts for the Varney locos.

 

It's the all brass Lindsay Switcher, with flywheel motor, single powered bogie etc., as per the shots and drawing.

 

 

Slightly different from the die cast Varney body , the toolbox on front step etc., it's made from lost wax brass castings and coined brass parts, factory soldered together, for screwdriver assembly and finishing. I had been after one for years, even have a bogie for one end stored away, bought as spare 30 odd years ago.

 

 

Coming from the States, so a few days on the others first, looks like a small 1940's industrial switching layout is now what's needed!

[CraigZ]

http://bowser-trains.com/hoother/cary/cary.htm - sadly the Bowser metal diesel shells are gone when current stock is depleted.

 

After Bowser bought out the Cary line the metal used did indeed change from that softer metal you see on the Alco and SW1500 Cary shells to the zinc alloy as used on the Bowser steam engines. Frankly the older material was much easier to work with; certainly easier to drill and to get a smooth finish painting it. The new stuff is downright crystalline in appearance, rather rough...disappointing. I have a couple of the FM shells, SW1500s too. I also have a painted and finished Cary rarity, a GP9. It was the very first GP9 with a scale width hood...it rides on a modified Athearn drive. The Bowser page reports that the tooling was damaged early on and so there were not many produced. It's a real puller as one might imagine...

[thnksno]

I can't confirm the SW and Alco came from Bowser, but the SW box came right from Cary, Illinois... Not far from here actually. (Old most likely dead fella's address and all on the box). The Alco maybe, but considering the packaging too, that old fella might have gotten it direct as well... So wondering what differences you see or anymore insight to the different metals, I plan to order an FM this week and you've just totally sold me just to see if there is a difference... You work for Bowser?

 

Stephen, great find!

[shortliner]

Well done on the ebay purchases, Stephen - My little 0-6-0 is away with a mate, to have a small amount milled off the motor mount so that the gears mesh properly.

[bertiedog]

http://bowser-trains...r/cary/cary.htm - sadly the Bowser metal diesel shells are gone when current stock is depleted.

 

After Bowser bought out the Cary line the metal used did indeed change from that softer metal you see on the Alco and SW1500 Cary shells to the zinc alloy as used on the Bowser steam engines. Frankly the older material was much easier to work with; certainly easier to drill and to get a smooth finish painting it. The new stuff is downright crystalline in appearance, rather rough...disappointing. I have a couple of the FM shells, SW1500s too. I also have a painted and finished Cary rarity, a GP9. It was the very first GP9 with a scale width hood...it rides on a modified Athearn drive. The Bowser page reports that the tooling was damaged early on and so there were not many produced. It's a real puller as one might imagine...

 

I would be very surprised that those particular Cary bodies are Mazak (Zamak), the plain die cast metal, they look too clean and bright, like a higher grade aluminium alloy, or lead alloy.

 

I think the Cary bodies are basically tin type, the printers metal, a foundry brew of tin, antimony and lead, and far easier to work with, as well as near indestructible, unlike Mazak, where any trace of lead destroys the metal.

 

They have the look of a "lead" alloy casting, clean and bright, but could also be Pewter, which is a Tin/Zinc metal mix in many varieties.

 

Cheaper grades of Mazak can indeed be very rough and cystalline, hard and brittle as well, usually very grey in colour. This sort of cheaper Mazak is difficult to solder too as well.

 

Most Chinese Mazak is OK, but lead contamination does occur. Until a few years ago Zamak, and Mazak(UK) were closely patented, now lapsed. The patents required the use of very, very, high purity zinc to mix with aluminium and magnesium.

 

The well known Model world problems with Mazak, were Hornby (Meccano/Dinky), who got lead accidentally into the metal just before the war and just afterwards, and Varney who made lead production items in the same factory foundry, and got contamination in the melt.

 

Legislation stops the use of lead these days, and pewter is used for most model kits now in the UK. Nice metal when lot of tin is used, but tin is expensive, and zinc cheap, so some pewter is a bit poor.

 

If uncertain about the material it can be weighed and the SG worked out, but a good rough guide is the heavier the better!

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Looking carefully at the shots of the Ebay Lindsay, my only query is why are the sideframes black? Lindsay cast their side frames in lost wax brass.

 

I hope these examples are that type of brass, and not cast Zamak, although Precision Scale can still supply the very same brass items, as the Lindsay parts went into the Kemtron range, and on to Precision.

 

I suspect that Lindsay supplied them painted, as one of the advertised claims was "simple screwdriver assembly",....."no soldering" ......even the body shell was laquered to allow painting straight away, although of course Lindsay emphasised the models could be built up as "super detailed" to satisfy higher standards, and Lindsay's standards were very high!!

 

As my late friend had always coveted one of these models, I think there will be a small brass plate with his name added as the driver!

 

One small foot plate handrail is quoted as missing so I may as well make a complete pair to get a good match.

 

As the cab is open and clear it can be detailed up with a decent interior as well, with floor etc., in the right position, and full lighting of course.

 

Bu**er!! .......yet another set of flush glazing to cut out or make!!

 

Stephen.

[thnksno]

I found the following information about the metal and how to best prepare for painting... The etching process was a concern of mine, seems a vinegar bath is needed. Do you etch the metal Stephen?

 

History: In 1958 Cary Locomotive Works produced its first Steam Locomotive Conversion Body, expanding the line to Diesel body units, Diesel detail parts, and a large line of lost wax brass detail parts. All Cary Conversion Bodies are zinc die castings. These are accurate models with smooth nose contours and shapes, as well as deep sharp detail. All our bodies are designed to fit commercially available drivers of other manufacturers in HO scale, such as Athearn, Hobbytown, and Proto-Power West, etc. The basic body in all our conversion kits is a one piece casting, with some parts, such as, roof ventilators, shutters, steps, air horns, etc., cast separately where such parts could not be accurately cast as part of the body.

 

Some hints for working with Cary bodies

 

Drilling: Always use a lubricant, cutting oil is best, but any oil will do. Dip the tip in oil, just enough to moisten the end. When drilling, back the drill out of the hole frequently to clear the chips, re-oil the drill bit often.

 

Tapping: When tapping holes or using self tapping screws in our castings, use a lubricant to dip the end of the tap or screw in, again cutting oil is best, but any oil will do. For every full turn that the screw is driven in, back it off 1/2 turn to clear the chips. Keep doing this until the desired depth is reached.

 

Parts Attachment: We recommend using one of the many brands of ACC cement (super glue), Goo, Ambroid, or epoxy for attaching the detail parts. Always make sure the parts fit into the desired mounting hole or location before applying cement. Make sure both surfaces to be glued are clean, and free from oil and finger prints, sanding with fine sand paper prepares the surfaces nicely. Epoxy cements also work very well, but have longer setting times.

 

Preparation for Painting: Wash the body in warm water and dishwashing detergent to remove all grease and oil, scrubbing with a soft brush. Submerging the body in straight vinegar (DO NOT USE FOR COOKING OR EATING AFTER USING) for several hours will etch the metal ever so slightly to ensure the paint will adhere. After the vinegar bath rinse the body thoroughly in water.

[bertiedog]

I found the following information about the metal and how to best prepare for painting... The etching process was a concern of mine, seems a vinegar bath is needed. Do you etch the metal Stephen?

 

 

I also noticed this reference from Bowser, but those bodies just do not look like Zinc! With any cast metal a wash in mild vinegar (acid) will help, or use dilute acetic acid. It will etch the surface a bit, but usually also discolours it, but this will be covered by the primer anyway.

 

Test some acid on the interior first, if in any way it bubbles, stop! The main thing with Mazak is it is very slightly porous, and the surface should be cleaned in cellulose thinners to clean before the primer, a thin coat of car primer is best, applied with airbrush.

 

Glass fibre eraser brushes are good on die cast to prep the surfaces, and also stainless steel fine brushes, or suede leather brass brushes.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

I think this is the right type of NW-2 that is portrayed in the Lindsay version of the 1000hp switcher. it is quite difficult to identify each type, but this has the right full length handrails, and the small toolbox on the front of the footplate under the radiator.

Also the pilots details are a near match, simpler knuckle release lifter etc., and the hand grab rails match on the body.

The Varney version also matches other shots, so there were lots of variations, a lot being made in a hurry during the war, when modifications must have been made as needed.

Wikipedia GNU copyright release, no author shown

Stephen

[shortliner]

Did any of you guys go for this? - somebody picked up a bargain!

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...E:B:WNA:GB:1123

[bertiedog]

Did any of you guys go for this? - somebody picked up a bargain!

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...E:B:WNA:GB:1123

 

I try not too......there would be no food in the house, the Lindsay purchase is straining the pension enough already!

 

Stephen.

[shortliner]

Yes - I have exactly the same problem - which is why I didn't! - Besides, I'm going to Glasgow at the end of the month!

[bertiedog]

Getting back to the Varney Switchers, the 1mm Diameter Fibre Optic single Light guide is here today by mail, and suitable 1mm heat shrink black sleeving, this a 3:1 type and shrinks to .3mm internal diameter.

 

 

The heat shrink sleeving can also be used on the handrail wires to make stanchions.

 

 

The repairs to the cab and chassis are done, in a tough grey resin putty, which is filed smooth, but will be sanded super smooth once completely cured and dead hard. It grips very well and small marks can be removed prior to the primer. Further "stopping" can be added as needed if more marks show later on. A couple of small vents at the base of the cab side need replacing on the second one, one had been filed away already.

 

 

The light guide and super white LED lamps for the main and cab interior lights. I will add the marker lights as well, fed with coloured LEDs, mounted in a group on a PC board under the hood. This will have a constant light circuit on it as well.

 

Stephen.

[CraigZ]

This is from a recent Bowser ex Cary Fairbanks-Morse shell...clearly not the same metal that Cary itself used. Very crystalline in appearance and frankly not as heavy as the Cary version.