RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2013 Due to the RTR manufacturers lack of LMS suburban coaches, I thought I would have a go at building some myself. This is my first effort. Not a patch on Larry(Coachman) Goddard's work but then he's had more practice than me! This is to diagram D1734, a suburban composite. The coach is mainly Comet parts but the battery box and regulator is from a Mainline coach and the bogies are Bachmann as recommended by the man himself. I want to have a go at another hybrid, this time a brake third using Comet sides and bits from the Dapol suburban kit - mainly the roof and underframe. I don't think I have got the lining in the right places as I don't have a photo of one in LMS simple livery but copied one from a later diagram. Hopefully somebody will tell me where it should go. Nothing lost as I have not varnished the coach yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 That looks very fine Rowsley. I started one but came unstuck with getting the door hinges to be in line despite several tries. How did you manage? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 9, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 9, 2013 That looks very fine Rowsley. I started one but came unstuck with getting the door hinges to be in line despite several tries. How did you manage?John John, Thanks for your comments. The hinges are not quite in line I just drilled holes where I thought the hinges should be and used "L-shaped" 0.4mm wire. I have a super-detailing kit from Comet which includes hinges and, I think, the fret contains a jig so you can get them in the right place. Here is the start of D1735. The Dapol under-frame is used with Bachy bogies, Comet V hangers, cylinders and dynamo. The under-frame has the battery box front on one side of the coach and the back on the other! A fine saw was used to remove the back hence the hole in the under-frame and this was glued to the back of the front. I had to lengthen the under-frame ends slightly with plasticard strips to make the sides and ends a tight fit. More soon hopefully. Sorry the under-frame shots came out so dark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Cheers, Rowsley. I have the super detailing frets and tried the jigs but still didn't get things in line. I have a great regard for Comet but it seems to me that this detail could have been better executed on the coach side etch (like half etched holes for example). Ah well, I'll get back to my kit at some point. I was going to mention in my last post, that I had upgraded some of the Airfix suburban underframes using Comet bits, but Photobucket proved obstinate. I did an article for the BRMNA Journal a couple of years ago: http://bmrcm.org/improving-the-airfix-lms-suburban-coaches The Airfix coach bodies are, to my eye anyway, pretty accurate, but the underframes are a major letdown. The other issue with all the models is the over thick and "foggy" glazing - corrected to some extent by SE Finecast replacement windows. I believe that Shawplan are in the process of releasing laser cut windows for these. There are several pieces on the site documenting my coach modelling (the most ambitious is a rake of Roxey LSWR vehicles). John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 10, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2013 Hi John, thanks for your comments again. I too have reglazed a Dapol non-corridor lavatory third with SE Finecast, a great improvement but laser-cut windows should be even better. However, the lining is too heavy and needs a paint-job in order to correct this, as well as the under-frame upgrading. Some folks may be wondering why not go for complete Comet jobs? Well they are excellent products but are also heavy being all metal. Using plastic under-frames and roofs certainly cuts down the weight, and will let my re-chassised 2P haul a decent length. Also I have a number of Dapol and Mainline parts, so not to make use of them would seem a waste. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2013 I believe that Shawplan are in the process of releasing laser cut windows for these. Available now. http://shawplan.wordpress.com/laserglaze-product-list-20th-february-2012/ Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Hi John, thanks for your comments again. I too have reglazed a Dapol non-corridor lavatory third with SE Finecast, a great improvement but laser-cut windows should be even better. However, the lining is too heavy and needs a paint-job in order to correct this, as well as the under-frame upgrading. Some folks may be wondering why not go for complete Comet jobs? Well they are excellent products but are also heavy being all metal. Using plastic under-frames and roofs certainly cuts down the weight, and will let my re-chassised 2P haul a decent length. Also I have a number of Dapol and Mainline parts, so not to make use of them would seem a waste. Indeed yes, a major improvement for the windows. Thanks to Mike for the update on the laser glazing. I did an A/B trial (SE Finecast and Shaw) with Bachmann Mk 1 suburbans and I think the laser glazing is better. There's an article in the blogspot link below. I found that the lining/lettering of Airfix/Dapol coaches leaves a lot to be desired so I would (and have) repaint. I agree that the weight of all metal coaches can be high (100g or so is about right), especially where there are a lot of whitemetal castings. Using RTR plastic parts is a good idea. The price of the Dapol coaches is so good, it may be worth buying them for roofs, underframes and bogies. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 11, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 11, 2013 I got all the door bumpers soldered in place last night, from 0.3mm wire and then made a start on the hinges from the Comet super-detailing pack. It comes with a jig to get them in the right places and it was easy to use. A few twists with a 0.5mm drill marks the place where the holes go, then drill through. It would have been much easier if I had drilled out all the holes for the grab handles, door handles and bumpers and hinges if I had not soldered the sides to the ends first. I did this as I want to make sure the Comet side/end unit would fit the Dapol underframe and as I had made a good job of soldering it level and square, I did not want to unsolder it again. I used a suitable sized piece of wood to prevent me bending the sides while drilling. I'll try to get a some pics up when I have bought more batteries for my camera. I must invest in a rechargable one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Ah yes, if I had marked the hole locations as you did before drilling I could have checked the straightness and made corrections more easily. It's very difficult to re-drill a hole that is close to or almost on top of another. I tried filling with solder but the drill wants to cut through the softer metal. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 11, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 11, 2013 Hi John, the way I used the jig was to put the drill bit into approximately the right place in the half etched door line, then slide the jig up to the drill bit. Once the drill bit was in the point of the jig, I just gave a few twists of the drill, then removed the jig and started drilling. I guess you could use a smaller drill, say 0.3mm, to do the pilot marks, but if you're anything like me you'll break more drills than enough. I actually BENT two 0.3mm drills drilling the door buffer holes, I don't know what rubbish my model shop is buying-in these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Good tips. I go through a lot of small drills. I think I may press too hard when all you need to do is let the drill do the cutting. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 11, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 11, 2013 I have managed to get all the bottom hinges on both sides of the coach soldered in place. The left of the brake end doors has three hinges in place while all the other doors only have the bottom hinge, can you tell? I tried to set the shot so that the hinges would throw shadows but had to use flash. Is it worth putting the other hinges in place? At least the under-frame comes out well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Admittedly the hinges are not that obvious but the lower hinges are the most noticeable. I'm a bit pedantic I suppose, so I would want to do all the hinges. It is a lot of work for something that you can't see when you're going past on a bike. It's your model so you can do it as you like. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 12, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 12, 2013 John, I agree with you, I'll give this the full treatment and put the other hinges in place. I seem to have a good 0.5mm bit that goes through the sides in no time, so drilling the holes is not quite the pain I thought it was going to be, only another 34 to go. I think once the coach has had a light weathering the hinges will stand out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 12, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 12, 2013 Managed to get the rest of the door hinges soldered in place. Just visible is one of the truss frame cross-members which has been glued in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 16, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2013 After the ends had been re-profiled to fit the Dapol roof, the coach just needs the duckets, coach end details and interior. Soon ready for the paint shops. The door and grab handles will be fitted after painting and lining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 19, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2013 The build to D 1735 is just about complete. The windows will go in after the paint job along with door and grab handles. For those interested: Comet parts - sides ends and detailing, brake gear, dynamo. Dapol - under-frame, roof & vents, some of the inside. Bachmann - complete bogies. Next I may have a go at a panel sided coach but will have to form the tumblehome myself. Suggestions welcome. Late edit: the duckets were put on too low and had to be moved higher up which you can see later on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 20, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2013 The next coach will be to D1701 a "period 1" composite. No photos existing of this coach, so if anybody has one... I am going to use a Bachmann under-frame as it will take their bogies without modification and at least the battery box is in the right place. The floor where the brake gear affixes will need some butchery as it's too low to fit the Comet equipment and it will need headstocks and buffers, although it may be possible to cut these from the original coach end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 You asked about lining out earlier. Sorry I have only just found this thread. The waist lining should be just under the windows and above the door handles on LMS 1935-47 livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2013 You asked about lining out earlier. Sorry I have only just found this thread. The waist lining should be just under the windows and above the door handles on LMS 1935-47 livery. Thanks Larry. I have not sealed the lining so it will be easy to remove and reapply some new in the right place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2013 Next I am building a D1701 composite. This shows the Bachmann under-frame with some modifications. A new piece of floor has gone in as the old one was too low. This is to allow the brake gear and dynamo to sit at the correct level. I have also added diagonal cross members to the cross truss. The next is the frame end with headstock and buffers cut from the original coach. The top of the headstocks will need filing down to allow the side to sit at the right height above the footboards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted June 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2013 Some really nice work on this thread Jonathan. One day I must have a go at bashing a Dapol coach with Comet sides for a bit of variety. Keep the posts/photos coming. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I find the only usable parts are the interiors and bogies. I would buy the Dapol roofs if they were obtainable without holes, as I need some for LNWR 'Toplight' coaches. The conventional ali extruded roof has a rebate which would show behind the top lights.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted June 24, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2013 I find the only usable parts are the interiors and bogies. I would buy the Dapol roofs if they were obtainable without holes, as I need some for LNWR 'Toplight' coaches. The conventional ali extruded roof has a rebate which would show behind the top lights.. I suppose it all depends on what you want your finished coach to be quality-wise, Larry. Ideally I would build entirely from Comet parts and the like, but I have a number of Dapol and Bachy under-frames and they can be made made to look quite reasonable and keep the overall weight of the coach down. All of this is a bit of an experiment to see what could be done with the materials I had to hand but keeping in mind your saying "why would you gold plate a plastic spoon?" If I wanted metal under-frames in the future, then it will be an easy job to replace the plastic ones and retrieve the metal parts. As to the roofs, I have some model putty, made in the USA I think, which is ideal for filling those holes in Dapol roofs, although it would be great if Dapol did holeless ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 24, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2013 I have a number of Dapol and Bachy under-frames and they can be made made to look quite reasonable and keep the overall weight of the coach down The weight isn't a problem - just make it free running. I have upgraded the underframes on my Airfix/Dapol stock and it may have been easier to have started from scratch. Getting the truss roding in the right place, changing the battery boxes/vac cylinders/dynamos etc took as long as adding a new chassis. I have a few Comet sides to do and had considered buying more Dapol kits but I think I will use my own underfarmes instead - its my personal choice - and I wouldn't make any one else do it that wayt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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