Pre Grouping layouts

[Edwardian]

A little trip along memory lane; Vivien Thompson's Eastbourne:

[BlueLightning]

A little trip along memory lane; Vivien Thompson's Eastbourne:

 

Thanks for posting this James, Eastbourne being my original home I am always interested in seeing pictures of this one!!

 

Gary

[Edwardian]

Another "whatever happened to?" moment.  Scottish O Gauge pre-Grouping in the form of Dean Bridge:

[Nearholmer]

You've found a couple of good bottles from the cellar there.

 

'Eastbourne' I remember well; the Scottish one not, but I like it a lot, and I reckon that point-ridding is the real McCoy.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

Another "whatever happened to?" moment.  Scottish O Gauge pre-Grouping in the form of Dean Bridge:

 

Now the eclectic mix of engines there rings a bell but I can't think where I saw it - some magazine - Constructor? - early 80s.

 

It's the Johnson Compound lurking down the side of the shed - one only saw it in rear 3/4 view...

[Edwardian]

Now the eclectic mix of engines there rings a bell but I can't think where I saw it - some magazine - Constructor? - early 80s.

 

It's the Johnson Compound lurking down the side of the shed - one only saw it in rear 3/4 view...

 

It is indeed.

 

Is it me, or have modellers' renderings of Midland livery become darker and more claret than GPO? 

[Regularity]

Might be the photography or the lighting, but I suspect it is a bit on the bright side.

[Compound2632]

It is indeed.

 

Is it me, or have modellers' renderings of Midland livery become darker and more claret than GPO? 

 

 

Might be the photography or the lighting, but I suspect it is a bit on the bright side.

 

It does look a bit garish but so can the real thing in some lights.

 

Anyway, that's a Belpaire, not a Compound. I'm convinced I remember a Compound...

[Edwardian]

Might be the photography or the lighting, but I suspect it is a bit on the bright side.

 

I agree, but here is a scene from David Jenkinson's Garsdale Road.

 

It does not appear to be such a bright shade as the Compound Johnson Belpaire on Dean Bridge - and is very much how I grew up expecting Midland livery to appear - but many current Midland models do seem a little darker to me.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

It does look a bit garish but so can the real thing in some lights.

 

Anyway, that's a Belpaire, not a Compound. I'm convinced I remember a Compound...

 

I stand corrected.  Just thought it was a Johnson 4-4-0. Clearly the man was not content with 12 (twelve!) classes of round-top 4-4-0s, and had to have some belpaires too!

[sp1]

I agree, but here is a scene from David Jenkinson's Garsdale Road.

 

It does not appear to be such a bright shade as the Compound on Dean Bridge - and is very much how I grew up expecting Midland livery to appear - but many current Midland models do seem a little darker to me.

Colour pictures of Garsdale Road! Where did they come from? I still have the Railway Modelleers this appeared in, inherited from my school model railway club. A truly inspirational layout! I’m modelling Great Western ‘cos, of course, all that lining is scary.....

[pete_mcfarlane]

A little trip along memory lane; Vivien Thompson's Eastbourne:

It's scary to think that more years separate that layout from 2017 than separate the layout from the existence of the real LBSC. 

[Compound2632]

The instructions for the Ratio Midland carriages said (back in the 70s and probably still do) "Humbrol Gloss No. 20 with a drop of black" - which was certainly a much darker red than in these photos. If anybody was getting Midland crimson lake right back then it would be David Jenkison. I suspect it's magazine editors brightening things up.

 

Compare Derek's red which looks good to me - he's been modelling the Midland for a good long while and has presumably maintained a consistent colour. Even so, the light plays tricks - the Flatiron looks brighter from some angles.

[Nearholmer]

A modest pre- grouping layout, built by one Mr Foster, and featured in the April 1912 edition of MR&L.

 

It was 2" gauge, and the main line a mere 263' long!

[Nearholmer]

PS: if you google "Bing for Bassett compound", you will get pictures of models made when the MR still existed and model-buyers were familiar with the colour of its engines. Allowing for a century of patina, I suggest that they support the richer, slightly darker red.

 

Beauty of a one for sale here, lots of good photos https://thestationmastersrooms.co.uk/catalogue/product-details.aspx?id=J26045&t=Bassett+Lowke+O+Gauge+Vintage+Midland+Class+%22Compound%22+4-4-0+Loco+%26+Tender+R%2fN+999+Clockwork

Edited October 14, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

I stand corrected.  Just thought it was a Johnson 4-4-0. Clearly the man was not content with 12 (twelve!) classes of round-top 4-4-0s, and had to have some belpaires too!

 

We've discussed this already. It's an example of steady development until the point is reached at which a paradigm shift becomes necessary.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Compound2632

[Regularity]

a paradigm shift

Is that some form of notching up in an obscure form of valve gear?

[Nearholmer]

PPS: and, Carter in "Britain's Railway Liveries" also gives the darker red as his colour swatch No.28, applicable to the MR from at least 1897 onwards, and he dates the big numbers on the tender as first observed in 1906. He says that the colour was being described as "crimson lake" latterly, but that swatch 28 still applied.

[Tricky]

How about this for a beautiful rendering of crimson lake? Plus check out the shine!

[jamie92208]

We could, I suspect, have a discussion on exactly what colour Midland red was that would outlast the 00/EM etc gauge wars. However there are so many variables that it is I suspect very difficult to be precise.

 

a) Individuals have different perception of colour.

b) The light that is illuminating the piece.

c) The way the surface was prepared and the colour of any undercoat

d) the number of layers of varnish that were applied after painting. I believe that Derby used 7 coats of varnish to extend the time between repaints.

 

However life is too short for all that. I have always used 'Rover Damask red' sprayed over a basecoat of red oxide primer. That also looks different depending on the lighting.

 

By the way I do like the model of 2607 with the watercart tender. Also I believe that David Jenkinson supervised the painting of the Midland coaches at the NRM.

 

Hopefully I may at some point feel confident enough to show pictures of the Edwardian Midland EMU's that I'm trying to build. They have at last reached the stage of being undercoated as you will see from the latest entry on my layout thread.

 

Jamie

[Edwardian]

Little Western, another 4mill layout, was, I believed, conceived to display Great Western stock from the Edwardian period through to the 1930s, so that probably explains the odd anachronistic item in these shots, but it is good to see a Churchward Atlantic in red frames as well as some of the classic Dean designs and the splendour of lined chocolate and cream.

 

If anyone wants a further 'fix', I have just had cause to re-post some pictures of 7mill Maristow on the Castle Aching topic.  We are supposed to be having a sensible discussion about trap/catch points, but all that pre-Grouping Great Westernry is starting to cause cravings  ....

[Edwardian]

A modest pre- grouping layout, built by one Mr Foster, and featured in the April 1912 edition of MR&L.

 

It was 2" gauge, and the main line a mere 263' long!

 

Though, of course, "Modern Image", so far as the builder was concerned!

[Argos]

 I rather suspect Edwardian is raiding a book called "Model and Miniature Railways" for his pictures.

 

This book was bought for me about 35 years ago by a kindly relative when their local library had a book disposal sale.

It was in pretty poor condition but I have kept it, partly because it has a collection of scale loco drawing at the back (although I've no idea on the accuracy of these) and partly, as demonstrated by Edwardian above, there are a series of well known and classic layouts covered.

 

I delve into the book at regular intervals and one thing that always strikes me is each layout has it's own caricature.

I am assuming this is derived from being built form unique materials and mostly scratch built.

Nowadays modelling is of a high standard but becomes very samey to view.

[Regularity]

I delve into the book at regular intervals and one thing that always strikes me is each layout has it's own caricature.

I am assuming this is derived from being built form unique materials and mostly scratch built.

Nowadays modelling is of a high standard but becomes very samey to view.

I agree with your reasoning, but did you mean “character” and not “caricature”?

[Argos]

You've found a couple of good bottles from the cellar there.

 

'Eastbourne' I remember well; the Scottish one not, but I like it a lot, and I reckon that point-ridding is the real McCoy.

 

Having a copy of the book (see post above) I've always looked out for more information on Dean Bridge but never found it.

Most of the stock was professional built by some of the best known name.

 

The quality shows through even though by modern standards it is relatively crude stud and contact operation (no track ballast)