Pre Grouping layouts

[Regularity]

At least it was a decent red engine in shot...

[Edwardian]

At least it was a decent red engine in shot...

 

And here was I thinking that the green one was the redeeming feature!

[Hroth]

And there was I thinking there weren't enough black engines..... 

[MarcD]

Thought I might put up some photos of our 7mm layout. It has 4 versions all of which are pregrouping. "Scrachy Bottom" LSWR/LBSCR or GER (Wishbech and Upwell style) and "Lowick" Furness or North Eastern.We will be at Bristol show next month with our Furness version.

[Regularity]

And here was I thinking that the green one was the redeeming feature!

i am still struggling to imagine a scenario where the green one and the red one might meet up, despite the Knotty’s extensive running powers.

[Edwardian]

i am still struggling to imagine a scenario where the green one and the red one might meet up, despite the Knotty’s extensive running powers.

 

One of the locations I have always wanted to tackle was the Midland-Great Central joint line to Manchester.  This is, of course, joined by the Knotty.  I have often thought that in pre-Grouping years this would have made a colourful line.

 

But that particular red with that particular green ....?

[Poggy1165]

One of the locations I have always wanted to tackle was the Midland-Great Central joint line to Manchester.  This is, of course, joined by the Knotty.  I have often thought that in pre-Grouping years this would have made a colourful line.

 

But that particular red with that particular green ....?

 

Now that is a prototype with huge potential! 

 

As to the Knotty though, I think I am right in saying that they did not normally work north of Rose Hill, and only that far on goods trains. Poynton (GC&NS) would be an interesting locus as it had both GC and NS passenger trains (the latter working to Buxton.) It might even have had some LNWR too, but I'm not sure. It did have a nice colliery branch into Lord Vernon's Poynton Colliery.

[Edwardian]

Now that is a prototype with huge potential! 

 

As to the Knotty though, I think I am right in saying that they did not normally work north of Rose Hill, and only that far on goods trains. Poynton (GC&NS) would be an interesting locus as it had both GC and NS passenger trains (the latter working to Buxton.) It might even have had some LNWR too, but I'm not sure. It did have a nice colliery branch into Lord Vernon's Poynton Colliery.

 

I was rather hoping Knotty trains might run into Romiley!

 

I had conceived a room-sized layout with a Bitsa Romiley leading on to Marple, complete with canal tunnels and aqueduct and as far as Strines.

[Jol Wilkinson]

One of the locations I have always wanted to tackle was the Midland-Great Central joint line to Manchester.  This is, of course, joined by the Knotty.  I have often thought that in pre-Grouping years this would have made a colourful line.

 

But that particular red with that particular green ....?

The excuse, if one were needed, is that the green engine is one of my latest builds and was waiting in the engine shed road for my friend Richard McLachan to build the NER carriages to go with it, for an excursion of happy holiday makers or a infantry detachment going on manoeuvres. We did consider a migrant train but think the D&S NER clerestory stock may not have been correct for that. I had to build it as it is one of the kits I have designed for LRM, so need to create some scenario to run it on London Road. The livery was an interesting challenge after LNWR black.

 

The Knotty tank was there because John Sherratt, one of the operating team and who who had built it, felt it needed some exercise.

 

Other anomalies not yet mentioned are the 4-6-2T Superheater Tank introduced in 1910 (another visiting engine, owned and built by Hywel Rees), after the 1907 date at which the layout is set and the 2-2-2-0 Dreadnought which had all been scrapped by then. That loco is owned by LRM's proprietor, as is about half the stock usually seen on the layout at shows.

 

Thanks to Edwardian for posting the excellent photos.

[Edwardian]

The excuse, if one were needed, is that the green engine is one of my latest builds and was waiting in the engine shed road for my friend Richard McLachan to build the NER carriages to go with it, for an excursion of happy holiday makers or a infantry detachment going on manoeuvres. We did consider a migrant train but think the D&S NER clerestory stock may not have been correct for that. I had to build it as it is one of the kits I have designed for LRM, so need to create some scenario to run it on London Road. The livery was an interesting challenge after LNWR black.

 

The Knotty tank was there because John Sherratt, one of the operating team and who who had built it, felt it needed some exercise.

 

Other anomalies not yet mentioned are the 4-6-2T Superheater Tank introduced in 1910 (another visiting engine, owned and built by Hywel Rees), after the 1907 date at which the layout is set and the 2-2-2-0 Dreadnought which had all been scrapped by then. That loco is owned by LRM's proprietor, as is about half the stock usually seen on the layout at shows.

 

Thanks to Edwardian for posting the excellent photos.

 

Thanks, Jol.

 

We did discuss some of the features that would be anachronisms if the 1907 date were strictly applied - 'LNWR' lettered wagons - but the layout clearly supports a limited time range very well, and what does it matter if a loco rebuilt or withdrawn exits off stage before one not yet built by that point appears? 

 

The location is kept deliberately open, so a variety of foreigners are perfectly justified.  This is assisted by the fact that there is really nothing modelled beyond the railway fence, so nothing to giveaway a more precise location.  The whole world of London Road is framed within Victorian blue-brick retaining walls (I really felt that I was down there, inhabiting that cutting), and standard LNWR sectional buildings are used, so it really could be anywhere on the line. Even the name, for a WCML station, is suitably generic! This is a very clever, and I guess entirely deliberate, device.

 

I imagine that London Road is a relatively rare example, these days,of a practice once common, of layouts that portrayed only the railway and nothing beyond the fence. As such, it makes an interesting comparison with Aylesbury, which includes so much town that elaborate perspective modelling is required to complete the scene.  Two very different approaches, but each brilliantly executed. 

 

Jol explained to me that under his ownership the layout became a through station, and it takes full advantage of the format to run a succession of trains.  Trains entering from both ends is an advantage on an exhibition layout when you want to keep things moving.  Eaton Gomery (last year's pre-Grouping layout at York) also benefitted from this format.  Interestingly, neither layout relies upon the massive continuous loop and fiddle-yard to the rear format, but are end-to-end operations. 

 

London Road was the anticipated highlight of the show for me, and it did not disappoint. So thanks to Jol and his team.

 

I even took a picture of the bumf!

[Compound2632]

I had conceived a room-sized layout with a Bitsa Romiley leading on to Marple, complete with canal tunnels and aqueduct and as far as Strines.

 

In the great wet Easter Monday bookcase reorganisation, I've just chanced on my copy of British Railway Journal No. 53 (Autumn 1994) which has an article on Marple by Warwick Burton - I don't have many numbers of BRJ but this one has three articles of Midland interest. Prior to the opening of the New Mills to Heaton Mersey line, Marple was the dividing point for the Midland's Manchester and Liverpool expresses. Of the 109 trains calling at Marple according to the August 1898 Bradshaw, 72 were Midland - plus a further eight Midland expresses going through non-stop. The remaining 37 trains were GC locals. At times, trains were running at three-minute intervals - all done with traditional mechanical signalling of course. Then there would be the goods trains of all varieties...

 

That's a lot of rolling stock...

[Edwardian]

In the great wet Easter Monday bookcase reorganisation, I've just chanced on my copy of British Railway Journal No. 53 (Autumn 1994) which has an article on Marple by Warwick Burton - I don't have many numbers of BRJ but this one has three articles of Midland interest. Prior to the opening of the New Mills to Heaton Mersey line, Marple was the dividing point for the Midland's Manchester and Liverpool expresses. Of the 109 trains calling at Marple according to the August 1898 Bradshaw, 72 were Midland - plus a further eight Midland expresses going through non-stop. The remaining 37 trains were GC locals. At times, trains were running at three-minute intervals - all done with traditional mechanical signalling of course. Then there would be the goods trains of all varieties...

 

That's a lot of rolling stock...

 

It was!  If you did just one bit, Marple would be the bit to do.  Lots of expresses dividing and joining; as intense a working as one could wish.  It ceased to be the mainline at some point (1902 comes to mind, but I might have misremembered).  It was still busy, but less insanely frenetic after that.

 

If one chose the turn of the century, it would be a very busy station indeed, with lots of complex traffic movements, and it would suit you and your pre-1903 lamp irons!

 

I think it would make a terrific club/exhibition layout.

[Edwardian]

By the way, Strines is one of the contenders for the location of The Railway Children.

 

There are several contenders, in various parts of the country, all with E Nesbit connections, and I suspect that the location is based upon no one real location, but is a composite place combining memory and imagination.  Nevertheless, Strines and its locale seems to have most of the features mentioned, including the nearby aqueduct (mentioned in the book, not the films), and apparently Nesbit stayed at a house near the line, in 1909 IIRC, which may have inspired The Three Chimneys.

 

If the traffic was predominantly Midland, the reference in the book the "green monster" perhaps makes sense as a reference to a less frequent GC service.

 

Well, it's a thought ....

[Edwardian]

It being a centenary year, at York this year there were a couple of layouts set on the Western Front, which, I suppose, qualify as pre-Grouping.

 

These were 1918 - Behind the Lines, a long layout in 009 packed with military matériel, besides which was a fine display of rolling stock, and Ferme du Pont, a 7mm/14mm gauge layout set in 1917, Somme sector, and which had real 'presence'.  

Edited April 6, 2018 by Edwardian

[CKPR]

i am still struggling to imagine a scenario where the green one and the red one might meet up, despite the Knotty’s extensive running powers.

 

If you want green and red engines side by side, then Linefoot Junction is just the ticket as it's where the  Cleator & Workington Junction Rly (mostly worked by nice red Furness Rly engines) met the Maryport & Carlisle and their idiosyncratic stock of nice green engines. Moreover, that's green as in 'Mid Quaker Green', which appears to have been pretty much the same as Mid Brunswick Green...

Edited April 6, 2018 by CKPR

[t-b-g]

A friend of mine has a model of Marple under construction, although progress is slow. We went and had a look at the station as it is today and it would be a superb scenic setting, with ideal scenic breaks and a retaining wall backscene. You would just need to leave the opposite retaining wall off the front of the layout (or end the scenic section before you reach the wall) to give you a decent view into the scene.

 

As my interests include GCR and MR, I have had the odd thought that if he doesn't get on with it, I may nick the idea from him and do it myself!

[Edwardian]

The final set of layout pictures from York this year are of, what was for me, an unanticipated highlight of the show.

 

Whether this is a pre-Grouping layout, strictly, I would not care to say. The descriptions are coy as to the precise date represented. To me it could be anywhere from before WW1 to the early 1920s.  One of the few indications of modernity is the early motor cycle outside the pub; perhaps someone with the requisite expertise could date the layout from this machine?

 

Anyway, Gweek North Quay, 7mm/16.5mm gauge is a wonderful piece of Cornish narrow gauge fantasy, and, as you may imagine, I was hugely taken with the architectural modelling in particular.

[49395]

It being a centenary year, at York this year there were a couple of layouts set on the Western Front, which, I suppose, qualify as pre-Grouping.

 

These were 1918 - Behind the Lines, a long layout in 009 packed with military matériel, besides which was a fine display of rolling stock, and Ferme du Pont, a 7mm/144mm gauge layout set in 1917, Somme sector, and which had real 'presence'.

 

Thanks Edwardian,

 

For those interested here's a link to the build thread from Ferme du Pont.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/10888-ferme-du-pont-wdlr-1918-0-14/

 

Also I'm in the early stages of building a layout based on part of the Esk Valley line on the NER set around 1920

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127391-howlsike-the-north-eastern-railway-through-the-esk-valley-p4/

[Penlan]

The....... unanticipated highlight of the show....... (May be) a pre-Grouping layout (?) The descriptions are coy as to the precise date represented.   To me it could be anywhere from before WW1 to the early 1920s.  

The history of the line is at http://www.hfmrc.com/Layouts/Helford_Valley_Railway 

where it mentions the line had closed by circa 1930. 

 

I thought, when I've seen the layout in Cornwall, they had some timetables etc., displayed by the layout, and they had a year date on them, but perhaps my memory's going. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Penlan

[sem34090]

I see James is admiring an O-16.5 Layout.

 

We will win him over to the dark side. I have yet to show any evidence of my 7mmNG activities on here... or even my 009 ones, I don't think.

Edited April 6, 2018 by sem34090

[MickRalph]

Back in post 179, I mentioned Pulborough, which is a scale length depiction of the LBSCR station in 1910-12.  We are exhibiting this layout at Scalefour North in Wakefield this weekend.  This may well be one of the last opportunities to see this layout, as it is so large that it is difficult to maintain and exhibit it to the highest standard.  There is detail about the layout, and the stock which runs on it, on Barry Luck's blog here.

 

Mick Ralph

Edited April 16, 2018 by MickRalph

[Lancaster622]

I would humbly like to add my 2 in development & under construction layouts: Dadlington Quay & Ravenshead

[Mrkirtley800]

Here is a rather poor photo of my Midland Compound, built to 4mm scale and EM gauge.  It represents the first compound engine built for the Midland, coming out of the works in late 1901 as number 2631.  Sister engine 2632 followed early in 1902.  Three more with a slightly different appearance appeared before Samuel Johnson retired in 1903.  He was responsible for the design and used the Smith compounding system.

Deeley took over from Johnson and continued building compounds but with a vastly different appearance to the Johnson engines and apparently easier to drive and were numbered from 1000 upward.  2631 was renumbered 1000 in 1907 and retained its appearance and bogie tender until rebuilding in 1914.  The Deeley engines had 5 added to their numbers to accommodate the earlier Johnson engines.

The pics show it in the fiddle yard of my Canal Road layout, and passing under Coverdale Road bridge on an express passenger.

This layout has been partially scrapped and Kirkby Malham is now in place.  Unfortunately the compound is too big for the small station of KM and only comes out on rare occasions.

Derek

Edited June 18, 2018 by Mrkirtley800

[Worsdell forever]

Here is a rather poor photo of my Midland Compound, built to 4mm scale and EM gauge.  It represents the first compound engine built for the Midland, coming out of the works in late 1901 as number 2631.  Sister engine 2632 followed early in 1902.  Three more with a slightly different appearance appeared before Samuel Johnson retired in 1903.  He was responsible for the design and used the Smith compounding system.

Deeley took over from Johnson and continued building compounds but with a vastly different appearance to the Johnson engines and apparently easier to drive and were numbered from 1000 upward.  2631 was renumbered 1000 in 1907 and retained its appearance and bogie tender until rebuilding in 1914.  The Deeley engines had 5 added to their numbers to accommodate the earlier Johnson engines.

The pics show it in the fiddle yard of my Canal Road layout, and passing under Coverdale Road bridge on an express passenger.

This layout has been partially scrapped and Kirkby Malham is now in place.  Unfortunately the compound is too big for the small station of KM and only comes out on rare occasions.

Derek

 

Here she is again...

 

 

...and she's got a freind!

 

[Mrkirtley800]

That last pic is a Deeley job Paul. I built it for my eldest son as a Christmas present in 1973 when he was six years old and wanted an engine to run on dads layout.

Derek