Unknown model of GWR mineral wagon

[melmerby]

Hi all

 

I have this part completed model of a supposedly GWR steel mineral wagon .

I have lost the manufacturers info so don't know which diagram it is!

 

Any aficionados who can help?

 

Pictures:

 

 

Wheelbase is 12' 0" and length over headstocks is 21' 6"

 

Both ends are the same

I have the rest of it in a plastic bag so it can be finished.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[The Stationmaster]

K's kit I do believe.

[melmerby]

K's kit I do believe.

 

 

It is an old Ian Kirk kit for the N23. Good body but crap solebar/brake gear.

 

 

I first thought is was a Colin Ashby kit N23 which Ian Kirk took over the moulds or visa versa, upon closer inspection it's got a white metal chassis so must be the Kayser jobby.

Dread to think what those awful wheels are!!.

It's all plastic (different colours) and the wheels are part of the kit (were on a sprue in two pieces each axle)

 

It may have had instructions typewritten on yellow paper (can't be sure)

 

Keith

 

EDIT it could be more than 30 years old

Edited October 13, 2013 by melmerby

[melmerby]

Then it is the Colin Ashby/Ian Kirk kit if it's all plastic

Ian Kirk sounds possible.

 

Keith

[Il Grifone]

Definitely the Ian Kirk kit - the K's kit has two doors on each side (N24 IIRC). Coincidently I was working on one of mine recently, but I've put it away again (SWMBO made noises about tidying up. Seemed OK to me....???!).

 

The solebar/axleguards are the same as the fish van kit though moulded in brown plastic.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Il Grifone

[Fat Controller]

I wish they'd re-issue some of the Kirk range that Parkside didn't take on; there was quite a nice Tunny as well.

[melmerby]

I have another old kit that doesn't seem to be available now.

It is a Ratio GWR "Tube C", which from the number on the wagon (67876) in the photo on the instruction sheet could be a diagram O16 from 1913

(It's the same picture as in Atkins/Beard/Hyde & Tourret's Vol 2 page 67)

 

However the transfers supplied have the following numbers: 94856, 81999, 81896, 68216

94856 is an O19, 81999 and 81896 are O8s,

 

There seems to be only minor differences between the types.

 

Does anybody know the true identity of the kit wagon?

The Ratio catalogue number is 5061.

It cost me just 97p when I bought it! 

 

I was lucky enough to pick up one at the EM show at Bracknell last year it made up into a very nice wagon, it pays to look in the boxes under the sales tables.

What others were there in the range?

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Edited October 14, 2013 by melmerby

[Il Grifone]

The original plastic Ratio kits were a coke wagon (17' 6" length 5 plank on a 10' wb steel underframe - RCH spec. was 9'), a 24T* hopper wagon, a NBR cask wagon (overwidth) and the OPEN C (this has 'hockey stick' diagonal strapping and no chain pockets). The last two share an underframe though the cask wagon has grease boxes whereas the others have rather poor GWR OK oil boxes. All came with plastic wheels and Ratio's version of the NMRA X2f coupling. Later kits included a TVR bogie bolster (GWR MACAW G) and an LMS bogie ore wagon (ex CR?).

 

* IIRC

[Fat Controller]

The original plastic Ratio kits were a coke wagon (17' 6" length 5 plank on a 10' wb steel underframe - RCH spec. was 9'), a 24T* hopper wagon, a NBR cask wagon (overwidth) and the OPEN C (this has 'hockey stick' diagonal strapping and no chain pockets). The last two share an underframe though the cask wagon has grease boxes whereas the others have rather poor GWR OK oil boxes. All came with plastic wheels and Ratio's version of the NMRA X2f coupling. Later kits included a TVR bogie bolster (GWR MACAW G) and an LMS bogie ore wagon (ex CR?).

 

* IIRC

Was the 24t hopper  a private-owner ore type?

The Macaw was in the range until quite recently (I've got one as a match wagon for a Booth-Rodley crane); wasn't the Iron Mink another very early type they did?

[melmerby]

The original plastic Ratio kits were a coke wagon (17' 6" length 5 plank on a 10' wb steel underframe - RCH spec. was 9'), a 24T* hopper wagon, a NBR cask wagon (overwidth) and the OPEN C (this has 'hockey stick' diagonal strapping and no chain pockets). The last two share an underframe though the cask wagon has grease boxes whereas the others have rather poor GWR OK oil boxes. All came with plastic wheels and Ratio's version of the NMRA X2f coupling. Later kits included a TVR bogie bolster (GWR MACAW G) and an LMS bogie ore wagon (ex CR?).

 

* IIRC

My Ratio Tube C has a choice of two axleboxes. I don't know what they are called but one looks like a plain rectagular block and the other slopes back and looks like it could have a bolt either side approx in the middle.

There are no couplings supplied but a mounting is provided for the old (wide) Triang tension lock.

 

Keith

[Garethp8873]

I have recently had three of these GWR N23 wagons restored by a friend of mine. Two have been restored into the livery of N23's that were loaned to North's Navigation Collieries and the third as a regular N23 (GWR 110265 in GWR Goods Wagons on P.250).

 

[cctransuk]

Was the 24t hopper  a private-owner ore type?

I seem to recall that the assessment of more knowledgeable wagon experts than myself was that it is underlength - whereas the more recent Mainline / Bachmann model is overlength.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Andy M]

I've been trying to acquire a couple of these N23 'Felix Pole' kits for some time now, without success.

 

Speaking with Colin Ashby at EM North, he still has the moulds which are now quite worn, but no plans to re-issue.

 

Regards,

 

Andy.

[melmerby]

I've been trying to acquire a couple of these N23 'Felix Pole' kits for some time now, without success.

 

Speaking with Colin Ashby at EM North, he still has the moulds which are now quite worn, but no plans to re-issue.

 

Regards,

 

Andy.

Unfortunately my newly identified Ian Kirk wagon is now an ex-wagon!

Whilst trying to reposition the axle-box mouldings to get some Alan Gibson wheels in, the body broke into several pieces.

It was extremely brittle - like 1mm thick glass! I assume the plastic had degraded over time and lost any hint of flexibility.

Definitely past recovery.

 

Keith

Edited December 15, 2013 by melmerby

[Graham456]

Quote

Whilst trying to reposition the axle-box mouldings to get some Alan Gibson wheels in, the body broke into several pieces.

It was extremely brittle - like 1mm thick glass! I assume the plastic had degraded over time and lost any hint of flexibility.

Definitely past recovery.

 

Keith

Worryingly I recently bought a still bagged but very old Ian Kirk kit of a N23 and like you the plastic had gone brittle shattering as I tried to cut it from the sprues even though I was using proper sprue cutters So i had to make the kit to make the kit, still I was going to replace the tie rods and the load now hides the reinforcing to the sides looks like there may be a problem after all these years

[melmerby]

Worryingly I recently bought a still bagged but very old Ian Kirk kit of a N23 and like you the plastic had gone brittle shattering as I tried to cut it from the sprues even though I was using proper sprue cutters So i had to make the kit to make the kit, still I was going to replace the tie rods and the load now hides the reinforcing to the sides looks like there may be a problem after all these years

It must be the plastic originally used that is the problem.

 

I purchased quite a few kits about the same time, many years ago, but the Ian Kirk N23 is the only one that has gone brittle.

Most were three-quarters finished and then put in a box and forgotten! I am now attempting to finish them to add some variety to my rolling stock.

The other kits are by Ratio and Cooper Craft (all purchased from Bob's Models, Coventry Rd Brum) and the plastic is still flexible enough to work on without shattering.

 

Most packets still have the price stickers 91p - £1.39 depending on complexity of wagon!

 

Keith

[kevinlms]

On 16/10/2013 at 07:17, Il Grifone said:

The original plastic Ratio kits were a coke wagon (17' 6" length 5 plank on a 10' wb steel underframe - RCH spec. was 9'), a 24T* hopper wagon, a NBR cask wagon (overwidth) and the OPEN C (this has 'hockey stick' diagonal strapping and no chain pockets). The last two share an underframe though the cask wagon has grease boxes whereas the others have rather poor GWR OK oil boxes. All came with plastic wheels and Ratio's version of the NMRA X2f coupling. Later kits included a TVR bogie bolster (GWR MACAW G) and an LMS bogie ore wagon (ex CR?).

 

* IIRC

Found an ad in Railway Modeller 1960 January for the coke wagon. Apparently, is was the first in the '1500 series'. So called because there were supposed to be 1500 models made as a limited production. Priced at 5/10.

 

Since many Ratio wagons have been around for decades, I assume that the 1500 count, was quickly forgotten!

[Il Grifone]

I don't know how many coke wagons were produced, but I suspect it was rather more than 1500 (I have several). It is still quite common unlike the hopper wagon* (I only have one of these, bought new back then). The later kits of the cask wagon and OPEN C also can still be found, so I reckon there were several runs of 1500.

 

* The prototype of this was quite common in the Banbury area at the time. Mine has a P.O. livery (as the article in the model press (M.R.N.?) on detailing what was then available. (I'm not sure it's correct, but it will stay for sentimental reasons - one of my earlier efforts at hand lettering.) It's reintroduction (to 21st century standards) would be useful. (The body is quite acceptable, but the less said of the underframe the better.) I'd post a picture, but it's in a box somewhere....

[NorthernGuard]

I picked up this undated pic recently, of a Lanky 0-6-0 on shed @ Blackpool.

 

To the right, my eye was drawn to the odd (to a Northerner!) 21t mineral wagon. The number is W109797. It's evidently been used for loco coal but not branded as such. A google search for GWR minerals brought me to this thread. Note the white diagonal stripes indicating doors at both ends. I imagine these wagons were intended to be emptied mechanically. The single drop-down door would not be popular with the shed staff if they had to shovel from the 4 corners, with some choice words about Swindon products!

 

This pic illustrates the fact that WW2 & Nationalisation led to vehicles turning up in unlikely places. Now I need to track down a nicely-built kit, given the issues with the plastic in un-started/-finished ones! Unless there's different kit out there...

 

Incidentally, note 'SP' (station pilot) chalked on the smokebox. Blackpool had some SP plates which were carried on the loco lamp-irons, but were evidently not always used. A few years ago, one of these was on ebay, with Blackpool Central stencilled on the back. At first I thought it was something to do with a signal. Unfortunately, the penny didn't drop until moments after the auction ended & it went for about 30 quid!

[Fat Controller]

The wagon's an N23, intended primarily for 'shipping coal' traffic to the South Wales docks, where end-tipping was the norm. I hope the shed had a coaling tower...There were other 20-tonners with two sets of end-doors, and NO side doors; I've seen a photo of one being unloaded in a coal-yard. The end-doors were supported by sleepers.....

There aren't any plastic kits that I'm aware of, though I believe there are some 3D prints available. There are quite a few variations in how many doors are fitted; examples lasted into the 1970s.

[NorthernGuard]

Both Blackpool sheds had the standard Lanky 'coal hole' with water tank above. No 'Cenotaph' here!