BernardTPM Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Interesting, but not entirely unsuprising, that the Caledonian coaches appear to have BR upholstery. The First Class pattern is quite distinctive and has been remanufactured - the Bluebell Railway have done some very nice Mk.1 FOs with it. I suspect they CR upholstery was last done in the late '50s/early '60s when these coaches were first restored to CR livery and ran about all over Scotland behind the various pre-group liveried locos like CR 123 and NBR 'Glen Douglas'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Having been thinking about the lamp mountings on the coach roofs I thought I would try an idea out which was using a hole punch from my car gasket making set I punched out a series of round discs in 5 thou plasticard. Using two glued together on the roof made The base of the gas lamps and then when the glue as set was drilled out and a small peice of brass rod glued in the center. Evergreens plasticard strip was used to make the gas pipe along the roof and down one end, when any filling is done and the roofs painted it should look OK. The photo shows the 30ft brake with this done but not filled or sanded off yet so sill looking a bit rough and ready, next to the coach is the punch and some plasticard used for the discs with a disc ready to use along side. Note evergreens strips have also been used to make the struts on the foot boards added since the last photo of this coach. Edited January 27, 2014 by Londontram 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Now the glue on the lamp tops has set I ran a file over the ends of the brass rods to de-bur them and make sure they were level I also pushed a little filler in the ends to block them off. In an ideal world I should use plastic rods but not being able to get out I used what I had at hand. The roof was gently sanded to remove any glue marks and rough edges so now looks much better, now I know it works I can start punching them out for the other coaches. Positioning them is no problem as there are enough photos to get an idea but generally its one lamp over the centre of each compartment so a five compartment coach will have five lamps you can see variations of this on the photo below. Photo evidence also suggests that the gas feed pipes seems to always run from the end with the access steps and hand rails. The question is roof vents and smoking compartments as the four and six wheel coaches unlike the later 45ft bogie coaches seem to have very few roof vents some/most not appearing to have any at all. Have a look at this photo below that I shamelessly poached off the Caledonian association forum (Sorry guys) taken at Biggar station cir. 1906 and I’ll try to suggest some of the coach combinations So looking at the roof detail of the Caledonian coaches the first on the right hand rake is a 45ft 8 compartment 3rd with smoking compartments on the two outer compartments suggested by the two “Havok” vents at each end. Note also the gas pipe running along side the lamp holders. The next two coaches are 6 wheelers the first of which possible a 6 compartment 3rd and moving to the left hand rake the end coach is a four wheeler or a pasenger brake of some kind then another 45ft 8 compartment third also with possible the two outer compartments being smoking compartments while the third coach along possible another 45ft bogie coach is electric lit evident from the lack of gas lamp holders a sign of things to come though it would take another twenty years to move away from gas lighting. Note also as mentioned in the previous post the 4 and 6 wheel coaches don’t have rain strips. So this and other period photo’s suggest that the earlier coaches didn’t have roof vents and relied on the droplights and over door vent only. I just love his sort of research its what makes his hobby so much fun. Steve Edited January 28, 2014 by Londontram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Have I just blundered? Pottering around doing a bit of modelling I sat back to admirer my work when I had a horrible thought that I may have committed a great blunder. I’ve been doing some detail work drilling holes for hand rails fitting steps etc. and also fitting the linkage for the communication cords on several coaches one of which with out thinking was the small 30ft full brake. But then I had a thought would the full brake have had communication cords And thus the linkage on the coach end? Now I can soon take it off but just want to be sure first by running it by you. Looking at all the photos I have doesn’t help neither do the diagram plans so was just wondering what you lot think? Steve Edit. just found a photo of a passenger brake and there is no linkage for a cord so answered my own question ta Edited January 30, 2014 by Londontram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossy5190 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 As promised, although a little later than planned! The colours are probably a bit too bright but they do stand out in the dark interiors. I've also included a pic of a part finished Decent Models brass kit of the Killin Branch coach by way of comparison. Ross 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Hello Ross. Lovely coaches thanks for posting them I guess one could say the seat colours are a bit light but I think you’re right that when the coach roof is on it seems to tone it down to the right shade, if painted the right shade they would look to dark through the coach windows. Any way I’ll follow your lead and do my seats the same colour if you don’t mind. Now I’ve got a problem as although mine is only ever going to be a rude copy of the Killin brake cut and shut from Triang clerestory off cuts seeing your etched body means I at least got the window/panel spacing right (though I think my duckets are about 1or 2mm to far away from the luggage compartment doors. Not sure if I can move them now as they cover a crude cut and shut line) The problem is not having a good side on photo I always thought that it had the full side panelling below the window line but your etch seems to show the simplified panelling, the only good side on photo’s I have is of a standard brake third (Diagram 16) which has the full below waist panelling and lacking any other evidence and knowing that the Killin brake was a variation of this diagram assumed it too had full below the waist panelling. So what to do now? Thanks for these photo’s Ross unfortunately I’ve not done much with mine these last few weeks had a few other problems to sort out. One question that maybe some one can help me with, I’ve still got a couple of spare clerestory bodies to use up and was casting around the Caledonian diagrams for ideas and came on an ex WCJS 30ft composite with central luggage compartment, the lay out is 3rd 1st luggage 3rd 3rd (Caledonian diagram 12) Being Wolverhampton built as all WCJS was it should look like a LNWR coach so the question is did the double doors for the self contained luggage compartment have glass windows or were they panelled? Something tells me I’ve seen a photo somewhere though I can recall where of a LNWR coach to a similar layout which had the luggage compartment doors fully panelled help please. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossy5190 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Hi Steve, the Killin coach did have full panelling below the windows. In the kit these are separate etches which go on top of the sides to build up an extra layer (quite common on early coaches). I haven't seen any pictures of the type of WCJS coach you are after but all the other types I've seen had paneled luggage doors, good pictures of ex west coast coaches don't appear to be that common. If you haven't already I would recommend you have a look at 'A Register of West Coast Joint Stock' by Casserly and Millard. A great book if you are in to coaches, lots of pictures and diagrams plus lists of which coaches (running numbers includes) were inherited by the Caley. Ross Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Hi Steve, the Killin coach did have full panelling below the windows. In the kit these are separate etches which go on top of the sides to build up an extra layer (quite common on early coaches). Ross Thank you Ross I was getting a bit worried there and reaching for the craft knife, panic over Edited February 9, 2014 by Londontram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Hi Steve, I haven't seen any pictures of the type of WCJS coach you are after but all the other types I've seen had paneled luggage doors, good pictures of ex west coast coaches don't appear to be that common. Ross Thanks again Ross I had a gut feeling the doors were panelled and your not wrong about the lack of good photo's, I'll keep looking as if I go ahead it will be a while before I start but I feel happy at this stage with the doors being panelled. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 9, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2014 As they are WCJS they will follow standard LNWR panelling all over. Jenkinsons book on LNWR and WCJS doesn't cover the 6wheel stock (sadly!) but I have got two volumes of LNWR Misc which has lots of carriage pictures in, so I'll see if I can find a picture for you. BTW I'm working on a etch that will help early carriage modellers, including end steps, train alarm bits, light control handles, door tee and luggage door flat handles, and more importantly for us, Scottish commode handles! Andy G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 As they are WCJS they will follow standard LNWR panelling all over. Jenkinsons book on LNWR and WCJS doesn't cover the 6wheel stock (sadly!) but I have got two volumes of LNWR Misc which has lots of carriage pictures in, so I'll see if I can find a picture for you Andy G Thank you Andy that would be very much appreciated. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2014 One question that maybe some one can help me with, I’ve still got a couple of spare clerestory bodies to use up and was casting around the Caledonian diagrams for ideas and came on an ex WCJS 30ft composite with central luggage compartment, the lay out is 3rd 1st luggage 3rd 3rd (Caledonian diagram 12) Being Wolverhampton built as all WCJS was it should look like a LNWR coach so the question is did the double doors for the self contained luggage compartment have glass windows or were they panelled? Something tells me I’ve seen a photo somewhere though I can recall where of a LNWR coach to a similar layout which had the luggage compartment doors fully panelled help please. Regards Steve Steve, From looking at LNWR carriages this morning my conclusion is that if the coach has a brake compartment the van doors are glazed (unless there is a seperate door for the guard when they are not). If the van is a luggage locker (ie no guard provision at all) then the doors are unglazed. Not found a photo yet of the exact coach yet. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossy5190 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Steve Don't know if you have seen these pics on the Bo'ness O Guage group Flickr site of early ex-WCJS coaches. Both have windows in the luggage/guards doors as per Andy's post. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bogog/8676777450/in/pool-bogog/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bogog/6066665098/in/pool-bogog/ Ross Edited February 11, 2014 by ossy5190 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 No I haven’t seen these before thanks for posting them Ross. As you say both windows clearly glazed, I've got a picture of a WCJS brake the same design as these that’s got the door nearest the ducket glazed and the other one paneled so it seems to vary somewhat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Hi chaps, sorry to go a bit off topic here but a lot of you chaps have private mailed me to wish me luck knowing I was back in hospital today for another operation. Thanks for all your support guys just to let you know I went down this morning at about 9 and was back out by 11-30 and they say it went well. I should have put this in modifying ready-to-run as it was a bit of debrideing (which I always thought was the best man running off with your new wife at a wedding) and some more skin grafting this is the eighth operation to date and hopefully the last basically they have taken off the buffers at the front and built a new chassis (missing the front pony truck now) from material off my left thigh so it’s a rebuild not a new build and now with a new streamlined casing any way I’m stuck in here for at least a week and then another five weeks bed rest at home before they will know if its taken or not so with nothing to do expect a sad git on here posting 24/7 and hopefully back on with the coaches in about a weeks time. Thanks again Regards Steve Edited February 22, 2014 by Londontram Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobhead Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I wish you a speedy recovery, Steve! Regards, Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted February 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2014 Hi Steve, also wishes for a quick recovery from me.Rebuilds tend to produce interesting and original locos Good thing RMweb can help pass the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david65061 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dear Steve wishing you a quick recovery and I hope you'll be back modelling soon. Can you build models while sitting in bed? I am sure you will give it a good try. All the best David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Good luck with your recovery! Have your family bring in some plastic kits and various cutting and gluing implements. Wheel over the table they give you lunch on and keep working!BTW - voice of experience here... There I'm working on kit #1. Since that photo, I've built 6 O scale wagons, 5 HO handcars, 1 O scale caboose (still in progress) and 1 N scale factory (also still in progress), all on that table. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossy5190 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Hope you have a speedy recovery Steve. looking forward to seeing how you get on with your rebuilds, might borrow a few of your ideas! Ross Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Hope you have a speedy recovery Steve. looking forward to seeing how you get on with your rebuilds, might borrow a few of your ideas! Ross Please feel free if what I do gives you any ideas but to be honest Ross its more like the other way round as seeing your work gave me the incentive to have a go at these in the first place. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 A quick question chaps Ive put it here as you guys who follow this thread are most likely to know the answer. Is the crest on the Caledonian coaches the same size as the crest that they used on the loco tenders? though even the coaches seem to vary I could be wrong but from photos the Grampians seem to carry a bigger crest though they might be the exception, your views please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossy5190 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hi Steve I always assumed they were the same size but having a look through various books there seems to have been three sizes of crest; 8 1/2, 11 1/2 and 14 inches tall. The biggest seems to have been used for coaches and the other two for engines depending on the size of the lettering on the tender/tank side. Fox transfers only offer one size (not sure which), probably why I assumed there was only the one size! Ross Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Hello Ross I have some line plans of various coaches and locomotives all scaled to 4mm and the crests shown on these are the same size and looks in balance on both locos and coaches so I thought like you they were but just wasnt 100%. As the scale differance between the small middle and the large is only 1mm going by your dimensions ie. 3.5mm, 4mm and 4.5mm I'll stick to the middle one of 4mm across the board which I believe that is what the fox one are though stuck in Hospital board to death I was playing around with making a sheet up of verious decals and running them off on decal paper, I was going to get round the printing problem of light colours like gold etc. not printing on clear by printing selections on colour matched back ground panels on white decal paper. The wife has a friend whos husband owns one of these high street printing shops with some high quality printers and says he can have a play around with differant machines and settings so I might load it on a stick and let him try on to plain paper first to see what they look like, ever tried any thing like that? Thanks regards Steve Edited March 7, 2014 by Londontram 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Back out of hospital and recovering at home I’ve not really been interested in doing any thing model wise and to be honest my hearts not been in anything for the last few months with all the worry about hospital etc. but then while I was clearing out my scrap and bits box I had an idea to knock something up from some of the off cuts that were about to go in the bin. From the coach conversions I had lots of off cuts of panelled coach bits which were not really long enough to do any thing with as well as lots of scrap off cuts of plasticard and looking through my collection of Caledonian Railway books one sees again and again at the front of many passenger trains a race horse box you know the ones with the groom and tack compartment at either end. So decided to kick start my stalled modelling interest by having ago at knocking one up, being made from scrap there’s no loss if it doesn’t work out only time and convalescing in bed that’s the one thing I’m not short of at the moment. I have no plans so its just made from photos luckily there’s lots of those in my books but it dose make it fairly free scale I’m afraid. I never thought to take any building photos until it got to this stage either but it’s easy to see where all the bits are from. The under frame is a shortened brake van chassis Hornby I think with strengthening bits of plasticard on the under frame and running boards which wasn’t easy to work with being made from a sort of polyurethane plastic though it seems to take polly cement well, the panelled door sections are old Triang clerestory coach sides which as I said were left over from some of the previous coach conversions and the rest is just scrap bits of planked and plain plasticard. As well as couplings and pipes etc. it needs the roof vents and hand rails but might look ok when done with a coat of paint which will be an all over coat of Caledonian coach red/brown. As I said it’s just a bit of fun to relieve the boredom so please don’t judge it too harshly. Steve 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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