Steve's Caledonian coaches & wagon work bench

[Londontram]

hello Ross I've tried to use as much of the original roofs as I could so I used a razor saw to cut the clerestory section away which leaves a slot running down the middle of the roof but the roof still intact across the ends. first of all turning the roof over I cut a piece of 20 thou plasticard to fit inside the edges of the roof this does two jobs it puts strength into the roof but also acts as a nice white ceiling to the inside of the coach, this also helps to join the roof sections if one has to cut it to shorten or lengthen it. I then cut lengths of plasticard to fill the slot to bring it up to the level of the roof top and then using a sanding block smooth the whole lot over so there are no high spots or ridges removing the rain strips at the same time this makes an almost solid and very strong roof, when happy I cut a piece of 5 thou plasticard to cover the whole lot by first gluing along one gutter with super glue (I use super glue as its only 5 thou plasticard and don't want the solvent to attack the plasticard which happened with some of the early attempts with the six wheelers) Once the glue had set along the gutter I used a cocktail stick to add glue in strips along the length of the roof carefully folding and holding the plasticard until the roof was completely covered and then just trimmed back any excess plasticard. With out the clerestory section the rest of the roof is a nice "flat" elliptical shape just like the 45ft coach roofs the cove roofs not coming in on the Caledonian until about 1905/10 five to ten years after most of the 45ft coaches were built even the famous Grampians were elliptical (I think the 57ft coaches were the first) If you go back a page to post No. 138 you can see two of the roofs with the clerestory sections cut off and the slots being filled with plasticard. Regards Steve

Edited October 3, 2016 by Londontram

[ossy5190]

Thanks for that Steve.

I went the opposite way with 6 coaches and put clemenson underframes on everything which I now realise was a bit overkill for most of them. Do you think having a compensated axle makes much of a difference? I've never really bothered compensating coaches and wagons.

 

Ross

[Londontram]

Most likely not in basic 00 gauge Ross but I had them so thought I would try them on a couple of coaches to see what difference it made. I think the big problems going to be fitting the foot boards as these are fixed around the axle boxes which is going to be awkward with the compensated axle so I might just leave the other coaches with just a modified sliding center axle.

                                         

Steve

[ossy5190]

The footboards were also a problem using clemenson underframes as the outer axels pivoted and the centre one slides. I mounted them to the floor using brasswire and cut out openings to allow the axleboxes to move freely. It makes them a little fragile but it works and the gaps around the axleboxes are not too noticeable.

 

Ross

[Thane of Fife]

A very interesting thread as I'm having fun bashing old Triang/Hornby Clerestorys.

 

I seem to have come to the same methodology regarding the roofs and other techniques.

 

The possible variations are endless, and the addition of microstrip to represent the panelling opens up a great choice of vehicles.

 

The great advantage is that acceptable coaches can be produced on a shoestring.

 

Thane of Fife

[Londontram]

Haven't done much since going to my sons wedding last weekend but got back to it yesterday and this morning, nothing very exciting just fitting the seats to two of the coaches and adding a little bit of detail to the brake compartment of the brake third. The hand brake wheel is one of the tender brake wheels from one of the GBL T9s that I had in the spares box, some off cuts of the square section plasticard tubing used for the coach seats was used for the two small guards seats and an off cut of plasticard for the shelf most likely none of which will be seen when the roof is on but at least I'll know its there.

The brake compartment with some basic detail.

And the coach seats with a bit of the evergreens square section tubing to the right that I use to make the seats, like the 6 wheelers its only a basic representation just so there's something if you look through the windows.

Thanks Steve

Edited March 15, 2015 by Londontram

[DLT]

Hi Steve,

I've only just found this thread while searching for Caledonian liveries.

I must make time to go through it.

All the best,

Dave.

[Londontram]

Thanks Dave here's two books that you might find interesting both produced by the Caledonian railway association and Lightmoor press that cover the subjects of Caledonian livery very well, there discounted for Caledonian association members but can be brought from Lightmoor press direct I believe

 

The Caledonian carriage book

http://www.crassoc.org.uk/cra/node/48

 

The Caledonian livery book though this covers mainly the locos it does have a carriage section too

http://www.crassoc.org.uk/cra/node/52

[Corbs]

Hi Steve, do you have any photos of your GBL single-to-jumbo conversion you did? I stumbled across your photos in the GBL thread and it inspired me to crack on with mine soon.

[Londontram]

Hi Steve, do you have any photos of your GBL single-to-jumbo conversion you did? I stumbled across your photos in the GBL thread and it inspired me to crack on with mine soon.

Yeah no problem mate. due to a full picture file I deleted a load of pictures including the Jumbo build but its pretty well covered on my loco build thread here

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92190-steves-caledonian-loco-work-bench/

 

The Jumbo build is from post 106 on page 5 on wards, I think you must have seen it at the time as there are some comments from you on there. Of interest I've gathered the parts for two more jumbos (you can never have two many jumbos) this time with brass Jameson tenders one long tank and one short with the rear tool box but the bodies will be pretty much the same as the one built on the loco thread

[Corbs]

Yeah no problem mate. due to a full picture file I deleted a load of pictures including the Jumbo build but its pretty well covered on my loco build thread here

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92190-steves-caledonian-loco-work-bench/

 

The Jumbo build is from post 106 on page 5 on wards, I think you must have seen it at the time as there are some comments from you on there. Of interest I've gathered the parts for two more jumbos (you can never have two many jumbos) this time with brass Jameson tenders one long tank and one short with the rear tool box but the bodies will be pretty much the same as the one built on the loco thread

Ah the loco thread, of course! Would you believe I had completely forgotten, mind like a sieve!

[Londontram]

I've had a lot of friends on this forum sending me PMs asking if I would start updating both my Caledonian loco and carriage threads again.

    I must admit 2016 was not a good year for me mainly with my wife being very ill with having to undergo some serious operations, and to be honest she's still not well now but were taking it one day at a time. Also as some of you know I have a few on going medical problems myself that occupy a big part of my life with hospital visits and the such like so all in all as well as effecting the physical side of life I guess it left me feeling a little vulnerable mentally and sensitive to a few peoples negative attitudes which made me withdraw from posting but hay life goes on and we must strive to over come all these barriers put before us and I I'm going to try to take on a more positive approach in 2017 which includes trying to keep these threads more up to date. 

 

One of the things our problems have done for me and the wife is make what hobby time we have patchy and intermittent so in the early part of the year I looked at projects that I could pick up and do that could be completed reasonable quickly so as to keep the mojo alive and needing some goods stock looked at producing a range of Caledonian goods vehicles using the Silhouette cutter.

 

  Nicknamed the wagon project I realised I would need quite a few wagons to eventually make scale length trains which would include in some cases multiples of certain types which seeing as most would need to be scratch built would become boringly repetitive and time consuming so started drawing the chosen wagons with a view of once cut they could almost be built as a kit easy to assemble with minimum scratch building required. This seems to have worked very well and I've now drawn and built a wide range of wagons and vans giving myself a good representative pool of wagon designs to fall back on as required.

 

  This is not to say that all the old projects have been abandoned though some of the older work has been scrapped as skill levels and availability of tools like the cutter leave them below the standard I would like to work to now.

 

   The carriage aim is still to build three main sets the first being a rake of 6 wheeler's still working with the cut and shut method which I still feel has a lot of mileage yet even with tools like the Silhouette. What I've done is rationalize the range and instead of having lots of odd coaches will build the rake round a basic first, two thirds and two brakes layout.

 

The 45ft rake as with the 6 wheelers will still be built mostly from cut and shut from the old Triang clerestory carriages, work on both these and the 6 wheelers are very advanced and need only one or two carriages building to finish off the rakes. Even though there's been no actual work on these projects for the past year I've still been collecting parts and all the 45ft conversions now have white metal "Fox" bogies care of that well known auction site.

 

The third rake planned is a rake of Grampian stock and hope to combine old and new technologies here with some of the carriages super detailed Triang carriages and some scratch built using the Silhouette. A realistic rake would be four carriages of these grand Caledonian coaches but Triang only made two diagrams so I plan to fill in the missing two with ones built with the aid of the silhouette and to this end there being drawn to match the Triang ones so when running will have a "uniformity" to them, I will correct some of the faults that Triang built into them one being the toilet windows at either end were not done very well. Length wise the Triang ones are not to bad being only about 3.5mm too short but so they don't stand out to much the new builds will also be a little short to match, this is a conscious decision to as I said maintain some uniformity. 

 

  One of the ongoing jobs to support the Grampian project is to draw and build a 6 wheel bogie to replace Triangs MK1 one size fits all bogie that they used.

First results look promising and the bogie features pin point bearings with metal wheels and the center axle is compensated with a simple wire sprung system, the next stage will be to fit to a carriage and extensively test run.

 

These rakes were going to be the limit of the carriage building but the Silhouette has given me a chance to look at older coaching stock and here';s an example of one under construction which is a Scottish North Eastern railway (A company absorbed by the Caledonian) passenger "bird cage" brake.

In due coarse this will be followed by a SNER third and a SCR (Sottish central railway) first

 

Anyway sorry to go on so long and in the next post I'll look at the wagons that have been built using mainly the Silhouette cutter

[hayfield]

Steve

 

Sorry to hear of your problems this year, its nearly over and hopefully next year will be a better one for both of you

 

Super bit of modelling and I do like reading threads where the person does a bit of model making. Sadly we do have a few on here who have their own issues which can upset others, thankfully they are just a few. Keep up the modelling there are quite a few who are interested

 

By the way, just obtained a full set of transfers (plus lots of others) for by Wills Caley tank, 

[N15class]

Very nice modelling. Hoping things improve for you and your good lady in 2017. 

[Buhar]

Great to see some of your output again, Steve.  I hope the New Year brings some upturn in both your and Mrs LT's health.  You seem to have devised a good plan for intermittant modelling opportunities and having seen some of the wagons on the go, the plan appears to be working!

[Londontram]

Some body asked me on a PM how I fitted the front of the birdcage section and how the roof went so took this today which shows how one of two internal dividers both made from two pieces of 20 thou plasticard laminated together is used to fit the front part of the birdcage on. The roof sections themselves are made from two pieces of 10 thou plasticard glued together then wrapped round a Pringles tube (Other crisps are available) and held in place with elastic bands, I tend to use a spare third bit of plasticard here just sat over the other two pieces as the elastic bands can leave a mark as the glue dries and the third sheet protects the other bits from this.

 

Thanks for looking and all the kind comments, Wendy is back in hospital for the day on the 4th for a series of test and including a CT scan to make sure all the big C has gone we'll know then more what the future will hold after this so fingers crossed.

                                            Steve

 

PS what I'll do in the next few days is take some phoyos of all the wagons that I've done so far and post them up on here.

[M Wright]

Hi, a very Happy New Year to you. I hope this coming year is kinder to you both than 2016, I trust you both will recover fully soon. I am shocked to read that some unkind post on this site have caused you hurt, can I try to do the opposite.  I find your approach to model making inspiring, you take unpromising materials and magic up a model that captures the spirit of the original. Your latest  early Scottish Road Van nails the prototype. My best pal knows that  "Not bad" is my greatest compliment (He has had to put up with me, and I with him for the last 40 years of model making. ( The pal is the chief model maker for one of our greatest museums and I dabble with a cottage business which you might look at - www.wrightscale.co.uk)

Your models do a rare thing - they capture the essence.  They are in their way the equal of the finest assembled kit we often see in these posts.  As a maker myself I feel that the fact that you research, design ,make and assemble your models, they are more than equal.  So carry on the work, I look forward to seeing  a CR express pulling up the bank south of Carstairs on a dreich January day.  A shaft of blue, carmine ,and crimson against the windswept moor.

[BlueLightning]

Hi Steve,

 

Firstly, Happy New Year! I hope 2017 is kinder to you and your good lady than 2016 has been.

 

Secondly, it is really good to see you posting again as your modelling is to good to be missed, despire what some people have said, and I know one of the people who said these things has since left RMWeb after saying some similar things to others, I won't mention names in public but I assume you know who I am refering too.

 

So once again Happy New Year and I wish good health to you and your good lady,

 

Gary

[manna]

G'day Gents

 

Got my fingers crossed that 2017 will be a better year.

 

manna

[Mad McCann]

Aye, 2016 sure was a toughie, Steve, but here we are at the opposite end. You got through it. May the waters ahead be calmer. Lovely brake btw!

Dave.

[Mike 84C]

Hello Steve, good to see you posting again, your modelling always inspires me and others. 2017 is a new year, untouched , I do hope you and your good lady's problems are sorted out this year. Please keep posting.

Mick

[Dave John]

Aye, we bump into each other on various forums Steve, Your models just get better and better, all the best for 2017. Also your involvement with the silhouette enthused me to get one; best bit of modelling kit I have bought in years. 

 

I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about roofs on coaches and vans, since at some point I have a rake of grampian corridor stock to build. I use an iMac, to get into it you stick a sink plunger on the middle of the big glass screen and pull.( Stop laughing, really it works )  Yep, its held on with magnets glued to the glass. So, model roof held on with magnets, get inside to clean, easier to paint.  if someone has tried it point me at it, if not, well, I'll report back. 

 

Cheers 

 

dave

[Mikkel]

Hi Steve, very impressed with the birdcage brake. Makes me want to read up on the SNER.

 

PS what I'll do in the next few days is take some phoyos of all the wagons that I've done so far and post them up on here.

 

Yes please, that would be great. You may not think so yourself, but you must be one of the most productive modellers on here - despite the troubles. I hope 2017 will work out better for you. Best wishes for 2017! 

[James Harrison]

Great to see this thread up again; some really inspirational modelling going on.  I hope 2017 is easier for you.

[Londontram]

Thanks for all the kind comments and good wishes which I've shared with Wendy.

 

Going back to my post where I discussed what I was up to and the wagon project I'll make a start by looking at if not the first van I built but the first one in chronological order. When Drummond joined the Caledonian in 1882 its widely seen as the point in the company's history where it became a modern railway rather than an amalgamation of lesser brought out companies. His reorganization and introduction of new locos and stock plus the reorganization of building and maintaining this new stock is nothing less than a revolution.

 

Anyway quick history lesson over but when he joined the company he inherited all the exciting designs and until his new designs could be introduces had to continue building some of the old designs. As the new designs were introduced they were recorded in the newly introduce Diagrams book a list of vehicles of all classes giving weight and capacity details of every vehicle available to the running department. All vehicles built prier to this are known as pre diagram designs.

 

The standard Caledonian four wheel box van was a wooden bodied van with a single door and one side and fitted with a roof hatch the van had a six ton capacity. Single sided vans seemed to be in vogue in the 19th century as all large goods depots had wagon turntables but one always wonders what happened if one turned up at a country station with the van the wrong way round, it must have happened and must have been very awkward if it did. Still these wagons were the mainstay of the company at the time with many lasting right up to the early part of the 20th century. At the point of Drummond joining the van had outside W irons and heavy end paneling this is how the van was first drawn on Inkscape for the Silhouette. Because the way the W irons sit out side the solebars they were drawn as part of the chassis, normally I make my solebars 40 thou thick by laninating two sections of 20 thou plasticard but for this as 20 thou wont cut through on the silhouette the solebar W iron combinations were cut on 10 thou plasticard with two sections laminated together with an extra W iron shaped overlay making the W iron 30 thou thick and also to give it the outside the solebar effect this is backed with another section of plain 20 thou plasticard making the solebar still 40 thou thick.

 

This can all be seen in this first picture of the pre diagram van which also shows the door side

As the W irons are part of the solebars there are no etched W irons and the pin point bearings fit directly into the plasticard W irons. The solebars are set 23.5mm apart and this seems to provide the right pressure to hold the axles and wheels in place so they turn freely with no axle slop.

 

The next picture shows the van from the non door side

and this three quarter view shows the end paneling style with the heavy framing and inset panels.

 

When this van was finished the drawings were copied and new ends were drawn and the chassis altered to show these vans built after Drummond took over and added a few changes, Drummond changed the ends to inside framing with only the anti burst uprights on the outside and flush planking but the biggest change was to fit modern "sic" axle guards which were inside the solebars this allowed me to build it to take standard etched W irons and the solebars which are now 25mm apart. Post Christmas lack of funds means I'll have to leave it a week or so before I restock with chassis fitting but when I do it will have Comet W irons and Wizard white metal springs and axleboxes.

Now this is one for you Mikkel but I plan to build a third one this time I will model it with the doors and roof hatch open so it can be posed in a yard scene being unloaded or something to save costs I'll most likely fit plastic wheels (I've got some ratio ones spare) as it will only be a static model.

 

   As to the basic dimensions the models are built from 20 thou plasticard laminated together to form a box with 40 thou sides the plank detail is scribbed by the silhouette into the top layers. Framing is cut on 10 thou plasticard and laminated to make it 20 thou which is then glued onto the basic body. The roof is made from two pieces of 10 thou plasticard glued together then left to set while wrapped around a Pringles tube and held in place with elastic bands until its dried this gives it a nice fixed curve the roof hatch being made up of sections pre cut on the silhouette cutter.

 

  All fittings, buffers etc. are from Wizard. The beauty of the silhouette is I can run off as many as I like to either design for the cost of a sheet of plasticard with the fittings making a core cost per wagon of under £10 each. The red painted one is sprayed with a red oxide rattle can from a well known motor factors.

 

   Sorry to go so long.

                           Steve

Edited January 2, 2017 by Londontram