GWML Electification

[Great Western]

To amplify what Phil has said - on the GWML full resignalling, albeit with some existing signal structures (other than brackets and gantries) retained is unavoidable.  The existing signalling is 1960s/70s with no ac immunisation although there was some dc traction current immunisation, many of the relay rooms at remote interlockinhgs are already suffering wire degradation plus we are talking about 50 year old cable routes.

 

Signalling out to Airport Jcn was renewed as part of the Heathrow electirification project along with considerable layout changes at various places - further layout changes are now taking place.  The Slough panel area from West Drayton East to Maidenhead West mainly dates from 1963 (some bits are earlier), Maidenhead West to Sonning Sidings dates from 1961, while Reading to Didcot dated from 1965 (and still does between Tilehurst and Cholsey).  Some bits - such as Reading Mainline East - were immunised against dc traction currents while of course Reading panel and several local interlockings had to be demolished as part of teh station rebuilding. 

 

Moreton Cutting - west of Challow was resignalled during the various layout changes I required for the Avonmouth - Didcot coal flow in the early 1990s and we specifically asked for structures with ac electrificatipon clearances and sold state controls were a given then anyway.  But north of Appleford, to Kemmington Jcn, is still mainly 1965 kit and the Oxford control area is 1973.  Swindon control area is - without checking - 1967 while Bristol is very early 1970s.  In other words not only is it all without ac immunisation but it is using cables 40 -50 years old with relay interlockings of a similar age.

 

Simple fact is the GWML was due resignalling anyway - the only bit which has been done already is in South wales and even in that case some of the fairly new signal structures need to be replaced with structures to ac clearances.

 

And in any case the signalling work - as I've already said - seems to be going ahead fairly well but a lot would in any case have to have been done for electrification.

Interesting you say about the gantries installed during the Newport Area Resignalling Scheme. Compare those to the new ones installed as part of the ongoing Cardiff ARS, and they are much much higher than the Newport ones! So basically all those Newport area ones with amount to at a rough guess about 50 gantries need raising ! Talk about lack of forward planning ! All we need now is for the new footbridge at newport do be to low!

 

Great Western

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting you say about the gantries installed during the Newport Area Resignalling Scheme. Compare those to the new ones installed as part of the ongoing Cardiff ARS, and they are much much higher than the Newport ones! So basically all those Newport area ones with amount to at a rough guess about 50 gantries need raising ! Talk about lack of forward planning ! All we need now is for the new footbridge at newport do be to low!

 

Great Western

I'm not sure if there are 50 but there are certainly quite a lot between Severn Tunnel Jcn and Ebbw Jcn. 

 

I would expect the new Newport station footbridge to have sufficient clearance but maybe if it hasn't it will be demolished and replaced by something far better and, please. please, actually in the same part of the country as Newport town centre rather than being a half marathon away with poor foot access.

[Ron Ron Ron]

All lines will closed between Hayes & Harlington and Didcot Parkway over the Easter holiday, for major electrification work.

This includes all the Thames Valley branch lines.

 

 

Planning for Easter Works on the Great Western Main Line

 

No sooner is last Christmas fading from memory and thoughts are already turning to Easter, in particular the next tranche of major infrastructure work that Network Rail will undertake on the Great Western Main Line (GWML), as part of the £7.5 billion investment in Building a Greater West.

As well as the penultimate stage of the Reading Redevelopment project and further developments to the Crossrail scheme  ongoing work to install overhead line equipment and wiring across the Thames Valley route will be undertaken between Friday 3 and Sunday 12 April 2015. This being a key element of the preparations necessary for the running of the new IEP trains from summer 2017.

This work will take place between Friday 3 and Sunday 12 April 2015 and will mean significant changes to usual service operations for their duration. First Great Western is working very closely with Network Rail on project and contingency planning to make sure that delivery plans are as robust as possible.

 

 

 

FGW -  03 - 06 April 2015 and 12 April 2015

 

All lines will be closed between Hayes and Harlington and Didcot Parkway to include Thames Valley Branch lines. 

This will mean use of Rail Replacement Bus services (RRS) as well as significant re-timings and diversions to major destinations to and from London Paddington.

 

 

.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Ron Ron Ron

[Xerces Fobe2]

On a lighter note the Highfield Lane overbridge in Maidenhead has reopened for traffic and is far more pleasing to the eye than it's rotting predecessor!

[andy stroud]

Are they electrifing all four tracks between Severn Tunnel Junction and Cardiff or just the passenger lines?

[The Stationmaster]

Apart from the final stages of Reading layout the really big job at Easter will be major signal control changeover work which effectively means Moreton Cutting to Maidenhead (or possibly even further east - not sure on that) with axle counter commissioning going on over a very large area as well.  So I doubt there will be too much activity with engineering trains during a good part of the possession period as the S&T folk will be finalising commissioning and doing an awful lot of testing over a considerable area - one can but hope that the contractors doing REB and location installation work have been up to scratch and there won't be a repeat of the Christmas problem on the GWML.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Get your cameras out now, before the knitting goes up.

Some views will never be the same again

[Ron Ron Ron]

........Just when you thought it was safe Railtrack 2!

 

Hardly Railtrack 2.

In fact that suggestion is laughable.

 

 

.

[The Stationmaster]

Get your cameras out now, before the knitting goes up.

Some views will never be the same again

Agreed.  Fortunately I have plenty of Tilehurst (before and after the footbridge change) plus one or two of things like the signalbox and original running-in boards and much the same for Twyford.  Quite a lot (mainly of signals) around Slough and to a lesser extent Maidenhead, hundreds of Reading from the 1960s to date and quite a lot at Didcot.  Also most of the semaphore signals from Cholsey to Didcot West End, plus some at Challow and Wantage Road and the steam sheds at Reading (most of those are in the Wild Swan GW Engine Sheds volume), Didcot, and Oxford (yard only), and Oxford station signalling in 1973 pre MAS.

 

So not too bad and I'll have to see if I can get some more in the coming months although i have been recording signalling changes at Twford, Reading and Tilehurst plus some at Didcot. 

[The Stationmaster]

Hardly Railtrack 2.

In fact that suggestion is laughable.

 

 

.

Quite agree - I can't see any problems cropping up with new infrastructure commissioning at Reading and a lot of the contractor work on signalling installation such as cabling, location cupboards and REBS can be visually checked (and in some cases tested) prior to the changeover.  I see a different type of axle counter connections (and presumably equipment location?) is being used east of Reading compared with that at Reading itself but that should hardly be a problem.  Provided enough float is built-in and the drawings have been correct and the work has been done to the drawings then all should be well and no doubt NR will be trying very hard to make sure it is.

[phil-b259]

I am afraid that there will be a repeat of The Christmas chaos just look at the Thameslink flood debacle! Big organisations with weak top management are monoliths that rarely learn and ultimately meet a sticky end. Just when you thought it was safe Railtrack 2!

Since when have NR been responsible for water mains?

 

If you bothered to check your facts you would know that the big issue re the Thameslink flooding was THAMES WATER PLC firstly took ages to find and isolate the main leak, but also then found several other smaller leaks which continued to flood the Thameslink tunnel after the main one had been dealt with.

 

If NR keep being given inaccurate information from Thames Water about when the water will stop, and the pumps carn't cope / carn't fit into the tunnels while allowing space for the trains to run then there is not a lot NR can do.

 

Similarly with the signalling screw up at Christmas on the GWML, if you actually read the report it makes it quite clear that despite repeated asking on NRs part, SSL the SIGNALLING CONTRACTOR IN SOLE CHARGE OF ENSURING THE WORK WAS SAFE did not provide accurate, timely or honest estimates as to when the railway would be handed back. NR can screen and shout all they like but it will make **** all difference to the situation.

 

However what you say about the management in big organisations is to a certain extent true, HOWEVER in the two examples you cite, it is Thames Water and SSL that were at fault NOT NR.

 

Going back to the forthcoming GWML blockade though, an awfull lot hangs on SSL getting their act together and having the right number of testers, the correct test plans, suitable spares, enough response teams to fix stuff that doesn't work when it gets switched on and most importantly a realistic testing schedule plus a system that captures exactly what has or hasn't been done.

 

As with Christmass NR will have relatively little input to the physical commissioning itself (though obviously they have more involvement in some aspects of the planning) yet will be liable if SSL screw up agin, a point lost on some commentators if seems.

[phil-b259]

If you had availed yourself of the facts you will see that Thames Water not unsurprisingly was to blame for the water main issue however Network  Rail had allowed the drains to block up so the water could not drain away.

 

Railway drains are gear towards disposing of typical RAINFALL. They are not and, never have been designed to deal with the quantity of water a 16" high pressure water main can discharge. Roads are the same, the drainage is designed around typical rainfall - remember a few years ago one of the underpasses on the A406 north circular in NW London flooded full of water because the drainage couldn't deal with the quantity of water. There is also the little fact that when a water main bursts alot of the surrounding soil / mud / earth / clay gets suspended in it and once it has entered the drains has a tendency to settle and inhibit the flow. Other factors are the fact that because of the very tight clearances, the track in the vicinity of the leak was of the slab track type and is not so porous as ballast - and thus had less capacity to deal with excessive volumes of water than might be the case elsewhere.

 

But hey, its obviously a lot easier to blindly bash NR than actually consider things like fluid dynamics, or what is standard industry design practice when it comes to drainage as far as you are concerned.

 

Two monolith organisations that literally had a p$ing contest while the passengers and TOC suffered the consequences for a number of  days. But hey who cares about them they only ultimately pay a good proportional of Network Rail staffs salary.

 

Once again you are talking rubbish. Behind the scenes NR and Thameslink were putting lots of pressure on Thames Water to get it fixed - what else did you want them to do? Have unqualified NR staff, etc come down and start digging up random bits of pavement so they could find the leak or ferry people across the floodwater on a row boat? Just because there was not lots of TV reports showing Mark Carne verbally abusing the boss of Thames Water doesn't mean nothing was happening between the two companies (particularly at the lower levels where the people who actually have the means, equipment, diagrams of piping / drainage runs reside) or that there was some sort of conspiracy to screw passengers.

 

You must love Jeremy Kyle - lots of angry people shouting at each other which does nothing to help the underlying problems sounds like your perfect sort of TV

 

Anyway heres to Easter going well, however a lot of work to be done and with the GWML electrification way behind schedule I am sure nothing will go wrong - or could it?

 

Lots could go wrong, but let me put it in bold so you actually understand it. The responsibility for ensuring all the new signalling is tested and confirmed safe for trains WILL BE THE RESPONSABILITY OF A COMPANY CALLED SSL, NOT NR.

 

Detail of SSL can be found here http://www.signallingsolutions.com/- (I have done this because you seem to have difficulty understanding they are not part of NR)

 

Yes NR have commissioned them to undertake the project, have set up the possession dates, gone over the plans to check they are robust, etc BUT NR will not be carrying out ANY of the commissioning work themselves.

 

Until the SSL tester in charge comes back and says to NR "Everything is tested and here are the test logs + certificates to say it is safe, then NR cannot reopen the affected bits of railway.

 

Yes if SSL have problems, and NR are made aware they will no doubt deploy what resources NR have to assist, but as happened at Paddington over Christmas if SSL don't make that call or give reliable estimates THERE IS NOTHING NR CAN DO about the disruption that will result. NR will have contingency plans prepared but again the implementation of them will require SSL to provide accurate information. If SSL say that there will be a 2 hour overrun then what NR will do will be very different than if SSL say it will be an 8 hour overrun. This was the issue at Paddington - every time NR asked SSL for an update they got told "we will get it back to you within 2 hours".

 

Oh and by the way Signal testing is rightly a specialist area of expertise so having the senior  board members hanging around will be of **** all assistance if things do go wrong.

Edited February 16, 2015 by phil-b259

[RJS1977]

I can't help thinking it strange that less than a year ago we were all saying how marvellous NR were restoring Dawlish so quickly, and now  we're saying they're a terrible organisation because a couple of engineering blockades over-ran by a couple of days. 

 

How fickle can we be?

[phil-b259]

Phil, Where did you get your Network Rail tinted glasses from?  I should replace them as they appear to be impairing your reason and vision! Remember Network Rail overseas and manages the subcontractors and are ultimately responsible and that is what went wrong at Kings Cross at Christmas with hydraulic  fluid everywhere but except in the road railer  machines and they ran out of train drivers because the did not have a credible contingency plan and appear to lack expertise in effective change management! 

 

Its not about rose tinted glasses, its all about blaming the right people when things go wrong. When it comes to signalling contractors NR are in the same position as you when you purchase goods or services. It doesn't mater how much planning goes into it, ultimately if said 3rd party doesn't deliver what they have agreed to do then its not the purchasers fault (unless they didn't specify what they wanted in enough detail at the outset).

 

With the Thameslink flooding, it was quite clearly a 3rd party who was at fault - NR like your local roads authority or even you yourself as a householder don't plan your drainage systems around the off chance that a large 3rd party water main might burst and overload the drainage system that quite happily copes with heavy rainfall.

 

Similarly NR don't pay SSL vast amounts of money for nothing. They won the contract and should deliver what they promised. If they don't its SSL that should get the blame. SSL screwed up on the GWML at Christmas so they get the blame. "Simples" as a merecat might say.

 

Now if NR had decided to do all the GWML signalling work in house and it all went tits up during commissioning, then yes NR would be to blame. But the simple fact is they are not and you should be recognising that fact rather than lambasting NR for things that are outside their control (as opposed to things that are within their control such as the reliability of signalling assets they maintain on a day to day basis for example)

[caradoc]

Xerces Fobe2, I, like some others on RMWeb, have worked over the years for BR, Railtrack and now Network Rail. Furthermore, like most, if not all railway staff, I recognise full well that there are areas in which NR, and indeed the whole rail industry, can and must improve. However, looking at the whole picture, our rail industry delivers, day after day, a safe and generally pretty reliable train service. Your incessant slagging of NR is becoming very tiresome - I can only imagine that a NR manager has at some time in the past done you serious personal harm.

As you are such an expert, perhaps you could enlighten us with your theories on how, and by who, Britain's railway infrastructure should be managed ?

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

Okay, I'm starting to think that this thread should be locked, or at least purged a bit, as it has been in and out of childish arguing and in the past page, along with many other pages, hasn't really produced anything very informative about the project, i.e. it has gone off topic on several occassions

 

I'm not going to say who is right and who is wrong, as I've made my views clearly felt before.The one thing I will say is that I feel that a MODEL Railway forum is NOT the place to be discussing how to run a REAL Railway.

 

Simon

Edited February 16, 2015 by St. Simon

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Not much evidence on the ground of impending electrification around Patchway today.

 

A Cardiff - Taunton local approaches Patchway Station at the end of the climb out of the Severn Tunnel.

 

 

Looking the other way, a down HST passes Patchway Junction.

 

 

 

[HillsideDepot]

I hope the thread isn't locked, although some pruning of posts would be advantageous, as the GWML Electrification is the biggest project on "my" railway in my life-time. I'm trying to balance in my mind the negative way in which the infrastructure will look different/cluttered with the excitement of having a really modern efficient railway. This thread has provided much information and insight into the project. Sure, it's far from perfect, there have been issues. Lets be honest there will be more yet, but no one is deliberately trying to cause problems with the project. It's a massive project spread out a long length of railway, heck, I've had more than enough problems with even the smallest of my layouts!

 

If the Easter works do go badly wrong, maybe there will then be something to debate. But for now, lets keep to facts and not guesswork.

And in line with that request, the public footbridge at Chippenham was removed 2 weekends ago, to be replaced with a new structure which will also allow lift access to the island platform. Interestingly the footbridge was raised for the introduction of the HSTs, by 6 courses of brickwork on the pillars, and by two extra steps on the staircases. Whether this was due to the extra depth of ballast or to allow for the air-pressure wave of high speed running (or a combination) I don't know, but the two wooden steps when the rest were concrete were an interesting anomaly for many years until all the treads were replaced by metal ones.

 

Another element of the project currently in progress is the laying of the power supply cable across the fields from the National Grid site at Beanacre to the GWML at Thingley. It appears that the feeder station will be roughly opposite the site of the former Thingley West Signal Box (although that supposition is merely based on where the site offices are located).
 
 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Nothing much happening at the southern end of Patchway tunnels either.

 

[Andy Y]

Certain argumentative/insulting posts have been removed from the last couple of pages and access to the topic for certain parties removed. Hopefully the rest of the topic can be more informative and less opinion based.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Meanwhile, between Pilning and the Severn Tunnel, whilst there were a number of contractors working on the cutting side, again there was no real physical evidence of electrification.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2015 by Peter Kazmierczak

[talisman56]

A bit of a 'storm in a teacup' report on BBC Points West this evening, as the villagers of Brinkworth complain about the design of the new bridge over the railway near the village...

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Meanwhile at Pilning itself, the station slumbers as usual. Electrification will mean that the footbridge will have to be replaced. Or will the station survive?

 

[GreedyHarry]

Not much evidence on the ground of impending electrification around Patchway today.

 

A Cardiff - Taunton local approaches Patchway Station at the end of the climb out of the Severn Tunnel.

 

DSC05021.JPG

 

Looking the other way, a down HST passes Patchway Junction.

 

DSC05067.JPG

Hopefully 'The Blue Bridge' is safe from modernisation. It only carries a footpath between two fields these days but does give pretty good views.

[Glorious NSE]

(Pilning) Any bets on the 'service' becoming eastbound only?

Edited February 16, 2015 by Glorious NSE