Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 This catenary look far more robust than a lot of the ECML electrification and hopefully there will be less wires down incidents. No sign of any new catenary posts in the Msidenhead area yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mow Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 When might the posts start appearing in Bath & Bristol? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted January 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 This catenary look far more robust than a lot of the ECML electrification and hopefully there will be less wires down incidents. No sign of any new catenary posts in the Msidenhead area yet. The headspans have been identified as a contributory factor to increasing the time it takes to put the wires back up, so they are excluded from this design wherever possible, and it looks like the OLE Masts are in a better position to reduce span length, therefore supporting the contact wire better. There is also a reduced use of differing metals which will reduce the electrical stressing as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2015 This catenary look far more robust than a lot of the ECML electrification and hopefully there will be less wires down incidents. No sign of any new catenary posts in the Msidenhead area yet. Once your 'pile driving' of the foundation tubes is done (or at least part done judging by examples further west) then masts will start to appear but most likely only west of Maidenhead as Crossrail seem to be far less advanced with work to the east. i noticed today running in and out of Reading that the 'doube deck' portals east of the station have now begun to acquire bracing angles (looks like quite a clever system from a passing look) thus confirming their purpose - which is already to be seen in one or two places on the GEML where structures have been renewed,. That is one bit of wiring arrangement I'm looking forward to seeing as it appears to be a far better arrangement than earlier BR practice of terminating a length of contact wire/catenary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Trip from Reading to Cardiff was an interesting way to see electrification progress and very interesting it was too. So - mast bases now appearing between Reading & Twyford plus continuing jungle clearance in Sonning Cutting Reading to Didcot has a number of new signal gantries erected or part erected, S&T cable and location cupboard works progressing apace, many masts in position between Tilehurst and Pangbournes with some portals in place plus some cantilever bracket girders also in place, but not all mast bases finished. Work in Pangbourne goods yard (site of) suggests something permanent might be going in there perhaps. West of Pangbourne to Didcot is a mixture of some masts in place but, still many foundation tubes not done. The stockpile of components at Moreton Cutting is now getting really big - everything you need to build ohle structures. All overbridges appear to done but there is one to remove west of Pangbourne (redundant structure left in place from some years ago). Big dig and much fancy site work underway at Foxhall - presumably going to be a feeder/transformer location? Some mast base tubes in place between Didcot and swindon but many not, no masts noticed; resignalling work proceeding rapidly but I noticed that all the signals for wrong direction running on the bi-directional are being erected on the 'wrong' side and bracket structures/small gantries will obviously not be replaced in similar form. Good job we insisted back in the 1990s that all the new signal structures for my Challow/Didcot scheme had to be to electrification clearances. Bridge work looks well on at Challow, underway at Uffington. Only one bridge still to be done between Wantage Road and Challow plus the one at Wantage Road itself. S&T work noted again well in progress at Swindon and one new gantry already erected but not fitted out, S&T work continues westwards with, again, Bi-Di signals being replaced on the 'wrong' side. Very few mast bases in place and some of those which are there might be for signal structures. Lots of lineside jungle clearance done/in hand. Various bridgeworks still to complete Swindon - Wootton Bassett Wootton Bassett - Chpping Sodbury again has S&T work well in hand plus virtually all brick arch overbridges complete - work going on just west of W.Bassett and one bridge untouched just west of Sodbury. S&T work seems to mainly runout at the swindon panel boundary but some work in hand thence to Stoke Giffiord. Major landcape change at Stoke Gifford tip as the new depot structure and site is gradually emerging. Little or nothing then until Ebbw Jcn whence new signal gantries are being erected more or less all the way to Newtown and major running junction work going in between Long Dyke and Newtown. Overall the impressive thing is the rate of progress with S&T work where schenmes which followed eqach other over several years in the 1960s and then into the 1970s are being overhauled and updated - with completely new cable routes and locations plus many new signals in a remarkably quick time. Less encouraging, despite increasing stockpiles of material, is the progress on getting mast bases into the ground and masts erected on them with a very patchy picture - perhaps due to unexpected ground conditions or are their difficulties with the kit which is supposed to put the tubes into the ground I wonder? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted January 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19, 2015 Interesting update Mike, thanks. When NR did a presentation to Wiltshire Highways about bridge reconstruction they mentioned that "Didcot" would be a feeder station, so that matches the work seen at Foxhall. There will be another feeder at Thingley (needing underground cabling, possibly along the A350, from the National Grid site at Beanacre next to the Melksham line) and they mentioned one in South Wales, but I can't remember where they said, although they did say that that one was placed with an eye on future expansion of the electrification. There are major works with a long closure planned this summer for Box Tunnel, and during part of that possession period they will also close Sydney Gardens for the work there. I think we'll have a very different looking railway by the end of this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) This makes interesting reading about the electrification works through South Oxfordshire, not that I have read all of it but some nice local info in it. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/projects/great%20western/electrification%20environmental%20statements/england/south%20oxfordshire/gwml%20electrification%20-%20south%20oxfordshire%20council%20-%20environmental%20statement%20vol%201b.pdf Edited January 20, 2015 by brian daniels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 What is this "High Marnham test track"? Where does the test part run from/to, please? And what will be visible testing there? What's wrong with Old Dalby? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) What is this "High Marnham test track"? Where does the test part run from/to, please? And what will be visible testing there? What's wrong with Old Dalby? High Markham was a mothballed colliery access line under Network Rail ownership and thus ideal for the company to try out new techniques and kit "in house" as it were. Originally used for testing various bits of "On Track Plant" like tampers, stone blowers, rail grinders, etc its also seen use as a place to test the various "High output" trains including those built to support the Governments renewed electrification programme. I believe it is easily visible from the A1 road but due to its nature as a test track train movements are somewhat unpredictable. Old Dalby was never part of Railtrack / Network Rail thanks to the privatisation process. It was bought from the British Railways board by Alstom who comprehensively rebuilt it for testing of the original Pendalino fleet ordered after privatisation. Once the Pendalino fleet was fully in service however Alstom had no further need for it and for a while it was looking like it would all be ripped up and the land sold off. Pressure was applied by various people however who pointed out it was madness to throw away such a valuable facility and Alstom eventually were persuaded to sell it on intact. I don't know who actually owns it now but the deal to keep it involved fitting LUL style 3rd and4th rails so that new Bombardier built Underground stock could be tested there after construction at Derby. NR don't and never had any interest in Old Dalby and if it wasn't for Alstom and now Bombardier it would have been turned into a footpath over a decade ago. Edited January 20, 2015 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 High Markham was a mothballed colliery access line under Network Rail ownership and thus ideal for the company to try out new techniques and kit "in house" as it were. Originally used for testing various bits of "On Track Plant" like tampers, stone blowers, rail grinders, etc its also seen use as a place to test the various "High output" trains including those built to support the Governments renewed electrification programme. I believe it is easily visible from the A1 road but due to its nature as a test track train movements are somewhat unpredictable. Old Dalby was never part of Railtrack / Network Rail thanks to the privatisation process. It was bought from the British Railways board by Alstom who comprehensively rebuilt it for testing of the original Pendalino fleet ordered after privatisation. Once the Pendalino fleet was fully in service however Alstom had no further need for it and for a while it was looking like it would all be ripped up and the land sold off. Pressure was applied by various people however who pointed out it was madness to throw away such a valuable facility and Alstom eventually were persuaded to sell it on intact. I don't know who actually owns it now but the deal to keep it involved fitting LUL style 3rd and4th rails so that new Bombardier built Underground stock could be tested there after construction at Derby. NR don't and never had any interest in Old Dalby and if it wasn't for Alstom and now Bombardier it would have been turned into a footpath over a decade ago. Wikipedia claims that NR own it and lease it to various companies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Wikipedia claims that NR own it and lease it to various companies. There is / was talk of a national technical centre being set up there by NR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Despite over a hundred pages on the environmental statement for just one section of the line, the actual upshot is that some bridges are being rebuilt looking like this. If that's not an environmental eyesore, I don't know what is. What a legacy for future generations..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Despite over a hundred pages on the environmental statement for just one section of the line, the actual upshot is that some bridges are being rebuilt looking like this. DSCN7463.JPG If that's not an environmental eyesore, I don't know what is. What a legacy for future generations..... It's not just bridges, either. Modern stations are almost always really ugly places, which is a shame, given all the new and exciting materials that architects and engineers now have at their disposal. The Victorians certainly knew more about aesthetics than us, or placed a higher value on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Wikipedia claims that NR own it and lease it to various companies. There is / was talk of a national technical centre being set up there by NR. To be precise Wikipedia say "Following privatisation of Britain's railways, the track became the property of BRB (Residuary) Ltd, the body set up to own former BR assets that were not sold off. The track was leased for one peppercorn per annum to Serco and later to Alstom and Metronet (LUL). Following the abolition of the BRBR, ownership passed to Network Rail on 30 September 2013." Basically the only reason NR have it now is that it was given to them is because the current Government announced with much fanfare that they wanted to abolish lots of "quangos". When the BRB was abolished NR got some of the other BRBs liabilities too (bridges, tunnels viaducts, etc) although the baulk of them went to the Highways Agency. Thus my comment about the test track having nothing to do with Railtrack and hence Network Rail still stands - particularly as the current leasing arrangements were worked out when the test track was firmly under the ownership of the BRB (residuary) Ltd. In fact when they were trying to offload it after the Pendalino testing finished they did try and get Railtrack interested with little sucess - hence the very real threat of it all being dismantled. Edited January 20, 2015 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It doesn't have to be pretty, it needs to work! As for Victorian aesthetics, there's been much complaining about the ghastly viaducts, tunnels and above all, the speeding trains that ruined the English landscape in contemporary newspapers! I guess the Victorians were lucky, as they had no choice but to use stone or brick for many structures, materials that weather well, and curved arches are always going to be more attractive than a straight beam. But in 100 years time, that grey concrete bridge will still be ugly, and it is possible to make attractive structures with modern materials - it just takes a bit of imagination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 High Markham was a mothballed colliery access line under Network Rail ownership and thus ideal for the company to try out new techniques and kit "in house" as it were. Originally used for testing various bits of "On Track Plant" like tampers, stone blowers, rail grinders, etc its also seen use as a place to test the various "High output" trains including those built to support the Governments renewed electrification programme. I believe it is easily visible from the A1 road but due to its nature as a test track train movements are somewhat unpredictable. Old Dalby was never part of Railtrack / Network Rail thanks to the privatisation process. It was bought from the British Railways board by Alstom who comprehensively rebuilt it for testing of the original Pendalino fleet ordered after privatisation. Once the Pendalino fleet was fully in service however Alstom had no further need for it and for a while it was looking like it would all be ripped up and the land sold off. Pressure was applied by various people however who pointed out it was madness to throw away such a valuable facility and Alstom eventually were persuaded to sell it on intact. I don't know who actually owns it now but the deal to keep it involved fitting LUL style 3rd and4th rails so that new Bombardier built Underground stock could be tested there after construction at Derby. NR don't and never had any interest in Old Dalby and if it wasn't for Alstom and now Bombardier it would have been turned into a footpath over a decade ago. Bit more than a colliery line, methinks! The last surviving remnant of the L.D. & E.C.R, isn't it? Their works was at Tuxford, near to where it crosses the A1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted January 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2015 To be precise Wikipedia say "Following privatisation of Britain's railways, the track became the property of BRB (Residuary) Ltd, the body set up to own former BR assets that were not sold off. The track was leased for one peppercorn per annum to Serco and later to Alstom and Metronet (LUL). Following the abolition of the BRBR, ownership passed to Network Rail on 30 September 2013." Basically the only reason NR have it now is that it was given to them is because the current Government announced with much fanfare that they wanted to abolish lots of "quangos". When the BRB was abolished NR got some of the other BRBs liabilities too (bridges, tunnels viaducts, etc) although the baulk of them went to the Highways Agency. Thus my comment about the test track having nothing to do with Railtrack and hence Network Rail still stands - particularly as the current leasing arrangements were worked out when the test track was firmly under the ownership of the BRB (residuary) Ltd. In fact when they were trying to offload it after the Pendalino testing finished they did try and get Railtrack interested with little sucess - hence the very real threat of it all being dismantled. I was only trying to help because you said you didn't know who owned it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 I ventured out to Paddington today and saw a few changes and quite a few catenary mountings on near Burnham that appear be stuck up many metres above the group and not pile drived down! There is also an amazing new signal at the west end of Burnham station that is anchored next to the down fast mainline and reaches like giant mechanical arm across to the down relief line a truly strange structure! The relaying of West Dayton goods yard appears to have made little progress over the last few weeks however there appears to be the start of a dive under line at Heathrow Airport Jct at the east side off the junction and I think it maybe to allow freight to cross to an extended goods loop from West Drayton. Many of the stations have had there canopies removed with Maidenhead Station have the appearance of been hit by a Tornado (not the A1 type!) and offere very little shelter from the weather surely some temporary solution could be provided! I spotted a "refurbished" 166 in its new livery and LED light cluster although the at leASTVone of the engines was still hunting on idle and those damn awful windows are still in situ along with the mythical air conditioning equipment! Nearer London the North Pole Depot has multiple lines now connected to the GWML and looks almost complete. One of the property companies that has endless adverts on the radio for new properties is now referred to new CrossRaol Station at Hayes guess I must've have missed that one! LOL All in all progress appears to be very slow I was hoping to see some spurts of activity on the OHLE front and wonder how many more delays there will be to this work. I think we are going to have to put up with Turbos and HST's on the GWML for a few yeas than we are being told at present! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ... It doesn't have to be pretty, it needs to work! ... What a bleakly depressing perspective. There is no reason why it should not do both: work well, and make a positive aesthetic contribution while doing so. Following your logic there would be no beautiful stations: everything would be housed in Portakabins or metal sheds. Grand public buildings which speak of our civic pride would not exist: only the crudest possible functionalism made of the cheapest materials and put together in a "that'll do" mentality. Our pride in creating something of value for now and for the future will shrivel as we focus solely on the immediate mechanical function. For me, good engineering is not just something that is incredibly efficient, it also looks right. Your world sounds vile to me. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I'm frankly depressed by the concrete bridge in Peter's image on the last page. There are several overbridges East of Bristol parkway that have just been demolished. Sure they only carry lightly used country tracks, but at least I thought they would be rebuilt using similar brickwork. I understand the economic argument but it's a sad loss of Brunel's historic infrastructure that made the line side appearance blend in well to the surroundings. I spent hours on those century plus old bridges spotting, I hope they won't be rebuilt like that concrete monstrosity. Yet more of our fine railway heritage vanishing, I know it's sentimental and non-economic but an overbridge is a large part of the local scenery and Brunel's fine legacy. Neil Edited January 21, 2015 by Downendian 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Those brick bridges you talk about were also seen as eyesores when originally built, as were the original concrete bridges on the early stretches of the M6 and M1. It'll weather with age and that will tone it down... As for spotting from the top of one I rather think that NR would rather you didn't do that on the new ones, that being one reason they don't look as nice as the old ones! Architecture is one of those subjects where everyone has a different view of what looks "nice", though, so I doubt there will ever be 100% agreement!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Those brick bridges you talk about were also seen as eyesores when originally built ... I'm not sure that's true: there were certainly some people who were adamantly opposed to the railway on principle, and they tended to object to railway structures as despoiling the rural idyll they believed existed (famously, Ruskin was one of these). But many 19th century railway companies went to considerable trouble and expense to hire top architects to improve their buildings and their structures. See, for example, English Heritage's book The English Railway Station, or Gordon Biddle's monumental study of all the listed structures on today's railway. I'm not aware of Network Rail doing the same for most of their projects. Even Crossrail has been criticised for only hiring architects for the central London stations, leaving poor bloody Ealing, for example, with a bog standard shed (a situation that they have finally rectified, after enormous pressure). Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have to say that the new and rebuilt/lifted bridges between Paddington and Reading up are in the main pleasing to the eye! The Breadcoft Lane bridge in Maidenhead is nearing completion is of metal construction painted green and looks and much better than the rusting and structurally failing eyesore it replaced. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted January 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2015 It least one of the bridges is listed Grade II*. It will be interesting to see what they are allowed to do there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1059 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Those brick bridges you talk about were also seen as eyesores when originally built, as were the original concrete bridges on the early stretches of the M6 and M1. It'll weather with age and that will tone it down... As for spotting from the top of one I rather think that NR would rather you didn't do that on the new ones, that being one reason they don't look as nice as the old ones! Architecture is one of those subjects where everyone has a different view of what looks "nice", though, so I doubt there will ever be 100% agreement!! The early motorway structures are STILL ugly over 50 years later. The only modern bridges that appear to have any grace at all are suspension bridges I don't know about the rest of you - Yes the GWML will be a thoroughly modernised railway when completed and hopefully a hell of a lot more reliable, but on the whole we seem to be losing far more in this country than we are gaining Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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