Tank Wagons

[relaxinghobby]

 

Oil tank wagon now finished next to the PECO as a guide to size. I think the PECO 10 foot wheelbase tanker can just be

inside the time limit of 1923 and be called a pregrouping wagon.

Edited March 16, 2016 by relaxinghobby

[Clive Mortimore]

P1010133a.JPG

 

Oil tank wagon now finished next to the PECO as a guide to side. I think the PECO 10 foot wheelbase tanker can just be

inside the time limit of 1923 and be called a pregrouping wagon.

Hi Relax

 

The Peco wagon is a 14 ton RCH 1927 design. Pre 1927 the manhole was bigger and the strapping on the tank differed.

[relaxinghobby]

I bought an old beaten-up Bachmann tanker as it is the same size as the PECO one, I'll back date by

removing the ladders. I think it can pass as a pre-grouping era wagon. I want it, along with the PECO

to demonstrate the increase in size of the later 20th century wagons.

 

 

 

Bachmann are very clever it all clips together, but the break details are a bit fragile and have broken off, I'm back dating it by removing the ladders. Together with the PECO wagon these models are missing the upright brackets at the ends so I've glued some plasticard onto the buffer beams to subjects the end bracket angle iron. The Bachmann design has been clever with the wire rigging and does it in one piece, on the PECO kit you have to carefully glue the six pieces in one at a time and that is fiddly and takes ages. I'll glue a bit of old steel bolt inside the tank for some ballast weight.

 

The black plasticard shows where I'm repairing the ends.

Edited March 16, 2016 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

After some internet research I think the table below shows the colour scheme of tankers over the years?

 

 

Tanker colour schemes

 

Pre 1900

Colourful private owners, owners name and brand . Tank shapes; square, D shape, cylindrical and 

wood encased chlorine tankers that look like small covered wagons.

 

1920's Class A and B inflammable contents where class B is slightly lower flash point.

Class A petroleum and alcohol spirit, silver or grey with horizontal red line

Class B fuel oil and tar derived products, black

 

WW2 Camouflage dull grey and black so as not as to attract air attack.

 

Postwar back to grey/ aluminium with red strip for highly flammable, black for oil e.g. with Shell or Esso logo onside.

 

1960's + Colourful private owner liveries and logos, Hazchem warning panels.

 

 

Tanker traffic.

 

Water for local distribution along the line side, fuel oil, vegetable oils- linseed for lino, industrial alcohols, tar from local gas works to central refining plant, beer? milk, acids, chlorine and others I don't know of. Wine in France, maybe even olive oil in Mediterranean countries?

[Nick Holliday]

According to Tourret, in the 1902 regulations Class A tanks had to be painted light stone colour with a bright red band 6in wide horizontally along the centre, both sides and ends. These regulations remained in force for more than thirty years. Class B tanks should have been painted red oxide, but black was a more practical colour.

In March 1939 the RCH agreed to relax some of the banding requirements and allowed the use of aluminium paint instead of stone, with red solebars and everything below black. The war required a rethink, and by January 1941 a new schedule had an all over dark grey livery with solebars and below black.

After the war the aluminium colour was restored, but without the red bands, but red solebars.

[Andy Hayter]

 

 

 

1920's Class A and B inflammable contents where class B   A  is slightly lower flash point.

Class A petroleum and alcohol spirit, silver or grey with horizontal red line

Class B fuel oil and tar derived products, black

 

 

 

 

Slight correction to your classifications

[Poor Old Bruce]

According to Tourret, in the 1902 regulations Class A tanks had to be painted light stone colour with a bright red band 6in wide horizontally along the centre, both sides and ends. These regulations remained in force for more than thirty years. Class B tanks should have been painted red oxide, but black was a more practical colour.

In March 1939 the RCH agreed to relax some of the banding requirements and allowed the use of aluminium paint instead of stone, with red solebars and everything below black. The war required a rethink, and by January 1941 a new schedule had an all over dark grey livery with solebars and below black.

After the war the aluminium colour was restored, but without the red bands, but red solebars.

 

At some time in the 1950s, the aluminium colour for Class A tanks was changed to pale grey, retaining the red solebars.

[relaxinghobby]

 

The PECO and Mainline tanks are slowly coming along, adding detail can only be done bit by bit

and allowing for time between bits for the glue to set, so progress is by one piece a day.

No pictures, they are being painted and are in a dust free box so I won't disturb them.

[relaxinghobby]

 

I've used up leftover transfers to get the black writing and the red line.

The red SHUNT WITH CARE is a home made transfer using Craftypaper's decal paper.

It should really read “trim with care”. Perhaps I should have printed a box around the words

to act as a guide to cutting in straight lines. This is my first outing with this product.

 

[relaxinghobby]

My two latest wagon projects are nearly painted, How to letter them for the pre-grouping era.

Ideas for tanker wagon lettering gleamed from old photos and pinched from other modellers, a little bit freelance.

Period the historical era of the Victorian age.

 

 

 

 

Blogs Chemical works

Bloggs Tar Distillers Co ( two g's, that's a bit posh )

Fuel Oil

Lubricating Oil

Soudley Refined Oil

(number on end) Name Here (number on end)

Gadgrind Bros. Ltd Coaltown.              Literary reference here

Samuel Pitt

Waterworks for water supply tank

Highland Nectar

Nectar of the Glenn

Blogs & Co Seed Crushers

Pure Oils                   This sounds like modern marketing

Peerless Oil Co         This is much more old fashioned.

Benzole or Benzene

Spirits of Tar

Shale & Oil Company No. 9

Acid

Spirits of Tar and Creosote

United Tar Distillers

Arkwright Coke Gas

Muck and Brass

Union Gasoline

Aristo Motor Oil           Best in all ways.                 These last two are American and a bit too twentieth century?

Edited April 2, 2016 by relaxinghobby

[stewartingram]

What about tankers for the Treacle Mines ?

 

Stewart

[relaxinghobby]

Well Stewart they had molasses tankers, that's very nearly treacle. I think that is a by product of sugar refining.

I don't think they actually mine it?

Tanks of that could be taken to a distillery to make rum perhaps, or to the broken biscuit repair works at Notty

Ash.

On a more serious note there was a major industrial accident at Boston when a tank of molasses burst and caused a flood,

killing people. commons.wikimedia.org and this shows you the sort of quantities used.

[stewartingram]

I mentioned treacle mines, because those of us of a certain age might remember the fad in the 60s for having them as industry on layouts!

 

Stewart

Edited April 2, 2016 by stewartingram

[relaxinghobby]

An industry that is usually hidden, sugar refining, I think the bulk of it goes into cattle feed especially if it is from sugar beet.

Did they grow sugar beet back in the 1800's or was it not introduced until the 1930's.

A molasses tanker would be good for visiting one of a layouts line side industries, improve operating potential.

 

Anyway here is the blank canvas for whatever design or lettering I end up choosing.

 

[Caley Jim]

I once had the idea of building a Barrs Irn Bruery.  Only three types of wagon required - bolster wagons for incoming raw materials (girders) and vans and tankers for outbound products!  

 

Jim

[Penlan]

My impression is that cylindrical (cy) tank wagons didn't come in till around 1895, therefore a 'Victorian' tank wagon would be a rare thing, most having had a rectangular tank.

The first Midland Rly cy tanks were built in 1891.  I can't see anything for the LNWR.

The WD had many Sulphuric Acid cy tank wagons in WW1, and afterwards.

If your making up a name, then as long it implies some form of fluid, and has the aura of Victorian times with a period lettering style (if any), then who's to know....  But Treacle Mines? There's humour, and then there's humour.
I'm sure Charles Roberts did some early cy tanks (1890's), but the books I have on that firm seem to have removed themselves from my shelves...   Of course cy tanks are unlikely to be in your average goods yard, though I have skimmed through a few photos to check.

 

I have a 'Victoria Salt Co.' salt wagon, which seemingly, the firm at least, was connected to the North Staffs Rly circa 1872-74.... (North Staffordshire Wagons - page 93), though I readily admit this is a later style of lettering on a conjectural wagon.  (I wanted something a bit bright, and different - These were the Woodhead transfers, there passing being much lamented).

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by Penlan

[relaxinghobby]

I once had the idea of building a Barrs Irn Bruery.  Only three types of wagon required - bolster wagons for incoming raw materials (girders) and vans and tankers for outbound products!  

 

Jim

There would also be wagon loads shipped in of empty bottles, and maybe tankers of acid to dissolve the girders?

[Caley Jim]

There would also be wagon loads shipped in of empty bottles, and maybe tankers of acid to dissolve the girders?

The empty bottles could come in the the vans, which would otherwise be arriving empty.  (If that doesn't sound too confusing!)

 

Jim

[Caley Jim]

My impression is that cylindrical (cy) tank wagons didn't come in till around 1895, therefore a 'Victorian' tank wagon would be a rare thing, most having had a rectangular tank.

The first Midland Rly cy tanks were built in 1891.  I can't see anything for the LNWR.

The CR also had a 2100 gal cylindrical tank wagon (Dia 32) of which 12 were built in 1891.  There is also evidence of a 1770 gal tank with a 5'5½" diameter barrel in a St Rollox drawing of 1889 and given Dia 5A..

 

The first tank wagons appear in the stock returns for 1861, being for 'vitriol' (sulphuric acid), but I don't know whether it was cylindrical or not.

 

Jim

[relaxinghobby]

Reply to Penlan

The book of "19 th Century Railway Drawings In 4mm Scale" by Alan Prior, shows a cylindrical tanker on a 9 foot

wheelbase wooden chassis, 15 foot over tank. Date given is 1893 of the GNR.

This tank wagon is about the same size as the smaller wagon in post #27 above and smaller than the PECO tank

in the same picture. The silver PECO wagon, now painted black, is I think typical of the ones built by WW1 for Navy

fuel oil and United Molasses. I've back dated it by removing the ladder.

Edited April 2, 2016 by relaxinghobby

[Ravenser]

My impression is that cylindrical (cy) tank wagons didn't come in till around 1895, therefore a 'Victorian' tank wagon would be a rare thing, most having had a rectangular tank.

The first Midland Rly cy tanks were built in 1891.  I can't see anything for the LNWR.

The WD had many Sulphuric Acid cy tank wagons in WW1, and afterwards.

If your making up a name, then as long it implies some form of fluid, and has the aura of Victorian times with a period lettering style (if any), then who's to know....  But Treacle Mines? There's humour, and then there's humour.

I'm sure Charles Roberts did some early cy tanks (1890's), but the books I have on that firm seem to have removed themselves from my shelves...   Of course cy tanks are unlikely to be in your average goods yard, though I have skimmed through a few photos to check.

 

I have a 'Victoria Salt Co.' salt wagon, which seemingly, the firm at least, was connected to the North Staffs Rly circa 1872-74.... (North Staffordshire Wagons - page 93), though I readily admit this is a later style of lettering on a conjectural wagon.  (I wanted something a bit bright, and different - These were the Woodhead transfers, there passing being much lamented).

 

Victoria Salt.jpg

 

Some fictional names:

 

Amalgamated British Sherry Coy. Dudley

 

Hervey's Bristol Creamery

 

Grand Junction Water Works Co. , Kew Bridge (real name, fictional operator)

 

Hardacre's Consolidated Creosote, Utterly, Yorks

 

Bath Water Company

 

The Anglo-Irish Vitriol Company, Dublin and Westminster

Edited April 2, 2016 by Ravenser

[ChrisN]

My understanding is that sugar beet is a fairly recent introduction to this country, well that is what my mum told me so the 1930s is probably about right.

[hmrspaul]

My understanding is that sugar beet is a fairly recent introduction to this country, well that is what my mum told me so the 1930s is probably about right.

From Wikipedia Sugar beets were not grown on a large scale in the United Kingdom until the mid-1920s, when 17 processing factories were built, following war-time shortages of imported cane sugar.

 

There is a lot more history there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_beet

 

Paul

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

My excuse for research into tank wagon markings, a quick google around the internet found some old photographs, but mainly from the 1930s 'till the 1960s, proper pre-grouping pictures seem to be none existent, I looked at other peoples models for these.

 

 

 

 

Some end plate detail from the Scots Railway Preservation Museum.

( http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/wagonshome.htm )

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

At last nearly finished just the couplings to go on to the middle white wagon then I can paint them, just plain black this time.

 

These models are based on early prototypes from the beginning of the 19^th century and are smaller than later tankers, the Mainline model is there as a size comparison.

 

The old Hornby Doublo metal chassis ( 9ft wheel base, 15ft long ) is good for these projects, it provides a good solid base, nice and square and the metal provides some useful weight compared to a modern plastic chassis. The MILK tank is from an Ertle Thomas toy, the end supports are incorporated as part of the Ertle moulding.

 

To finish the rigging on the brown Mainline tanker, I cut up the original bendy wire which bowed in all the wrongs ways and stuck in each side of the triangle a single piece at a time.

 

The open square frame of the Hornby Doublo chassis are good for these open chassis models as the prototypes had no floors just frame.