A Borchester Market layout appreciation topic

[RJS1977]

The ideal for this sort of 'classic' layout is for it to go in some sort of 'permanent' venue (i.e. like the Madder Valley at Pendon or at a Heritage Railway) with a dedicated group looking after it and housed in a structure which is owned by the group rather than an individual member (i.e. not somebody's shed or garage). Whilst I'm not saying it shouldn't go to somebody's personal home if they want to look after it (as Buckingham has), the trouble with that approach is that the venue only lasts until such a time as the new owner dies/goes into a home/moves to be nearer family, when another new home has to be found for the layout, after which time it will be 20-30 years older and correspondingly more fragile. Although of course an extra 25-30 years' life for a layout is better than a skip!

[Chris_z]

Well back to the real thing. The layout is currently stored in it's shed along with another layout from the Newhaven Club and we have a problem coming up. We cannot see any chance of our club circumstances (i.e lack of space) changing in the near future, there is also a good possibility that it will be losing its current storage site in the near future, it's already been stored up for a while but long term it is not going to do the layout any good, it really needs to be assembled and operated. So reluctantly the BM Group has decided that we need to sell the layout, it would come with everything that you would see at an exhibition with the power switched on ready to go, lights, controllers, transformers, all the paperwork that we were given by the Dyer family, including the paper and electronic timetables for running the sequence, but no stock, we never received any of the original locos etc, what we use are owned by group members. I thought that I would put it on this forum first in case of any interest, we are open to offers . Please PM if interested.

Regards

Charlie

 

Very sorry to hear this news Charlie. Your group have put a lot of effort into maintaining and repairing Borchester Market. I really hope you can find a sympathetic and capable buyer to continue the good work. In hope....

[Chris_z]

The ideal for this sort of 'classic' layout is for it to go in some sort of 'permanent' venue (i.e. like the Madder Valley at Pendon or at a Heritage Railway) with a dedicated group looking after it and housed in a structure which is owned by the group rather than an individual member (i.e. not somebody's shed or garage). Whilst I'm not saying it shouldn't go to somebody's personal home if they want to look after it (as Buckingham has), the trouble with that approach is that the venue only lasts until such a time as the new owner dies/goes into a home/moves to be nearer family, when another new home has to be found for the layout, after which time it will be 20-30 years older and correspondingly more fragile. Although of course an extra 25-30 years' life for a layout is better than a skip!

Some sort of Frank Dyer Memorial Trust? Sort of like a real preserved railway with a group of volunteers that look after it, maintain it and have it on permanent public display. Perhaps one of the real preserved railways might have a home for it. Since, it would already have visitors, the layout could provide an additional attraction. Bluebell Railway? NMRC already have connections with it. A preserved railway with a GNR / LNER / GCR theme?

Just some thoughts.

[Chris_z]

I know it's not Borchester Market, but I still think this is the best place for Hardwick Grange.

So, here's my contribution.

Many thanks to Rod Mackay (a member of CMES) for taking some extra photos and letting me post here.

This may require more than one post, because there's quite a lot.

Franks other layout......

[Chris_z]

Hardwick Grange, some photos... care of Rod.

[Chris_z]

I had to include the first of these.

Frank Dyer is nearest with concentrates look. In the background, is his wife Margaret, sitting near the layout fielding questions from the public. This has now become known as "Margaret Duty".

[Chris_z]

More photos

[60526]

Just a bit of an update with BM, the situation down at Newhaven for club space is not going to change anytime soon and I'm starting to make plans for a house move so the layout has to go. We thought that we had a buyer for the layout a month or so ago but he disappeared off the face of the earth without any explanation, but we have had a further enquiry which we have accepted. So we have just started to clear out Borchester Towers to make space to set the layout up for testing, hopefully it will be next weekend. Here's a quick view of it stored up at the end of the its shed.

 

 

If all goes well it will be in new hands by mid-November and off on a new venture.

[roythebus]

If the deal falls through, I'd be interested in taking the layout on. Pity I didn't pick up on this thread earlier. 

 

I used to help Frank run Borchester when it was in north London and have built 2 of his other track plans, including my current unfinished layout! There's no shortage of space where I am able to erect and run the layout. Ashford Kent area.

Edited October 24, 2017 by roythebus

[60526]

Don't put all your eggs and all that but I've talked to the potential buyer and he seems genuine and very enthusiastic, sounds like it will go to a good home. It's more than a bit of a wrench for us but needs must, we can concentrate on other modelling projects now. Some of those which were projected for BM such as a C12 and J6 will eventually have a bit of b to b widening carried out, but not too much, others will get moved on I expect. Ian Forsyth is already into making a new BR(NE) layout, Ray Warner is carrying on with his P4 Shrewsbury Layout and I'm into my challenge of a BR(W) EM layout, all the best laid plans and the only EM loco I have is a Peppercorn A2, surprisingly enough its 60526 Sugar Palm, somethings gone wrong with the thinking there, perhaps it visited MR Eils down at the Swindon Plant for testing at some time.

 

Regards

Charlie

[60526]

Well we had our final (excuse the pun) board meeting last night and dissolved the Newhaven & District MRC Borchester Market Group, it is the end of an era for us but the beginning of a new chapter for the layout as it takes up residency in Lancashire, we have sold it on. If you read back in this topic when I originally went down to Caerphilly to view the layout, the shed door was opened and my eyes went straight to the BM gantry, your then try to take everything in and to be quite honest there was too much, I'm sure that the layout had the same effect on the new owner, he still looked a bit shell shocked when he left. It has been hard to put into words exactly what it has been like not owning but caring for this layout, the bonus was certainly learning from actually operating it, no playing trains here, you are a signalman first, a driver second, certainly learned a lot about sensible "old school" layout electrics. I intimated before that it was a genius who designed and built this layout and I still have not changed my mind. Hopefully the new owner will set the layout up soon, keep it set up and continuously operate it because that is what it needs, having stored it up since the York show in 2016 was not the best thing to do but we had no choice in view of our club and personal circumstances.

So to finish a few photos from yesterdays testing.

Self explanatory, scratch built by Frank Dyer, the signals are still operated by pull cords and the line indicator panels still illuminate and work.

I thought that we had better not show a photo of the Wolf of Baddenoch because somebody might say "another Wolf" so here's the Duke of Rothesay, a PDK kit made, painted and weathered by Ian Forsyth, I'd easily put this and the other A1/A2 variants up alongside more prominent modellers models and would say that overall they are even better. At the York show back in 2016 we used Ian's models of all the Thompson A1/A2 pacific variants, all kit built, all having good haulage power which we didn't need on BM, but we did need then to run well and to shunt forward and in reverse, fantastic.

We used two N2's on the layout, this is 69521 a straight Hornby model and chassis, the other was 69505, photos have appeared in an earlier posting, the intention was that one of these was always filling in for a Little Engines N1, but never managed to get this working properly for BM, 69505 started as a Hornby condensing N2, saw a photo of it in an IA Combined Volume at Grantham, so every picture tells a 1000 stories etc, removed the condensing gear, could never find the correct dome for this loco and still looking to this day, but was made with a deliberately floppy Comet chassis, a flexi chassis to some with a pivot point between the front and middle axle with beams, driven on the rear axle via a Branchlines gearbox & Mashima motor, no special tools or jigs were used in its construction, it was built as a challenge and didn't let us down, especially up and down the ramp to the Great Central fiddleyard where there was some quirky trackwork at the top and bottom of the bank. You could see some rigid wheelbase locos lift their wheels over this trackwork which affected their haulage capability, the flexi chassis models did not have this problem, all driving wheels stayed in contact with the track, so sold on this idea of chassis construction.

What is a B'mann Warship doing on BM, well it is a model that the club did not sell at our recent show and was getting a run. If you operated the GN fiddleyard normally you are sitting there in isolation, you can't see the front but you do have the timetable and it's telling you that the next operating sequence X is a 6 coach departure from BM to the GN fiddleyard hauled by 60113 Great Northern. So there is an exchange of bells with BM, you then change the relevant pointwork and accept the incoming train which operates the relevant signals and via relays locks the pointwork to avoid any conflicting movement. So it's nice when the correct loco and stock comes in. Now although I thought that it was too new I tolerated D0280 Falcon, but took exception when a 4-CEP came through, an HST, a Voyager, 158 and an EWS and DRS 66 have been known to make appearances, I'm an Eastern modeller but have always had a soft spot for Warships, just thought that I would leave some individuals who know who they are with that.

So signing off, there was 7 in the BM team, myself, Ian Forsyth and Ray Warner from Newhaven MRC, Darren Ford (ex Newhaven member now native of Yorkshire, Brian Roper (DOGA), Tony Warmsley and John Leadbetter from the York Ebor Group, a big Peter Sellers raspberry to the lot of you and thanks for your help over the years, we must have been enjoying it for so long to have all kept together. This is a bit like a resignation speech for West Ham United, no won't go there, the owners of RMweb must do it for a reason, there was some chat about writing a book, but RMweb has given us a good platform to put out some of the details about the layout to those who have been interested, so thanks go to Mr York etc. All the best to the current owner and his friends for the future, over to you. 

[RJS1977]

I've often wondered what the 'Classic Layouts' - Borchester, Buckingham, Craig & Mertonford, Sherwood etc would be like in a contemporary setting....

[t-b-g]

Is the new owner either an RMWeb member or can be persuaded to become one so that we can still get to hear progress reports and updates on the layout?

 

I appreciate that it would be up to the new owner to decide how public they want to be and whether the layout will still be exhibited from time to time but it would be nice to here how things are going. 

[RJS1977]

Talking of updates, how's Buckingham coming on?

[t-b-g]

Talking of updates, how's Buckingham coming on?

 

We are bringing Leighton Buzzard out of exhibition retirement for a couple of shows. Warley in a couple of weeks and Ally Pally next March. Both are special anniversary occasions. It is the 50th show for Warley and it will be 70 years since Peter Denny first exhibited a layout at the MRC show. Although that layout no longer exists, some of the buildings from it, as well as the locos and stock, still exist and will be on view.

 

The rest of the layout is substantially operational, although many small tasks remain to be done. It has got to the stage where we can run much of the timetable and I have friends round twice a week for running sessions just as Peter used to do. It is (I know I am biased) the most enjoyable layout to operate I have ever been near. We shut the door on the rest of the world and 3 hours fly by. It is the ultimate therapy and all the problems of the rest of real life just vanish for a while.

 

Once these two shows are done, the next part of the restoration is to attach Leighton Buzzard again. We haven't done this yet as it covers the points in the fiddle yard and they are not 100% reliable yet but are getting near.

 

But generally, progress is steady, immensely satisfying and very enjoyable and rewarding. What more could anybody want?

[60526]

Borchester Market.

[t-b-g]

Borchester Market.

 

A close second!

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Any news on how Borchester is getting along in its new home?

[60526]

i saw the current owners son earlier in the year at Railex Aylesbury, he said that the layout had been set-up but I haven't heard anymore than that.

[kevinlms]

 

Just noticed this item for sale on Flea-bay Item No. 201022834785

 

eBay item number:

201022834785      

 

MODEL RAILWAY JOURNAL ISSUE NO.27 Which features the Original Borchester Layout if I remember rightly,   but it's definately a Borchester Issue and at £1 even I would buy it. But I have already got it,but not to hand to confirm the contents accurately.

 

Regards.

 

 

 

 

Found this photo of the original Borchester Town. It is a preview for the Model Railway Club exhibition for that year (1959) and appears in the April edition.

 

So the article appearing in Model Railway Constructor for 1959 December is a follow up to the appearance at Westminster at Easter?.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Not sure if these videos have been posted earlier, But here is the layout running. The first video is from 2015. So fairly recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Eq0z1-aJkThe

2nd video Borchester Market is the 2nd layout to be shown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiv_PGrGJFM

Edited October 14, 2018 by cypherman

[s55evo]

Hi, is there any news from the new owners, is the layout up and working, will it be going out to exhibitions?

Regards, Tony M.

[SteveyDee68]

On 16/06/2019 at 10:50, s55evo said:

Hi, is there any news from the new owners, is the layout up and working, will it be going out to exhibitions?

Regards, Tony M.

 

Hi

 

I am sure the new custodian of Borchester Market would not mind me telling you that the layout is still being worked upon, albeit during the pandemic that has slowed things up a little as he has been shielding.  I know him because he has done some marvelous work repairing my father's O gauge locos for me, and when I told him about the existence of this thread he was delighted that people are still interested. He is a true enthusiast and is gathering the necessary locos and stock to be able to follow the timetables. As he has offered to show me the layout, with his permission I might be able to take photos and post them here.

 

Incidentally, he used to be a member of RMWeb and I am trying to pursuade him to reactivate his membership! I think there might be one member on the forum who might be better able to do that than myself!

 

Steve S

Edited July 20, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Typo!

[SteveyDee68]

UPDATE:

 

I said:

 

Incidentally, he used to be a member of RMWeb and I am trying to pursuade him to reactivate his membership!

 

Correction - I misunderstood - he has looked at RMWeb as a visitor, but has never been a member (although his son is).

 

Today I had the pleasure to meet up with Rob and see the main station boards of Borchester Market in the flesh! Even without stock, power, or even the other boards it is an impressive piece of railway modelling. From examining the point and signal levers and taking a look at the underside* at the wiring, it is clear to even me that this is the result of dedication and attention to detail. (I did in fact find a large battery clipped into a holder underneath that Rob wasn't aware of, but thankfully it had not corroded or damaged anything.)

 

Rob's intentions are to construct a new fiddle yard to enable the layout to be operated by a single operator, whilst retaining the ability to run as per the original with bell codes etc. The remainder of the original boards are stored so that it may be returned to the original set up at some future date if required.  He intends to write up a magazine article showing his changes in due course, but the layout is heavy, awkward and delicate to move so it will not return to the exhibition circuit, but will be able to be viewed at its current location once completed. The original station boards will be carefully refreshed in keeping with the original.

 

I think I have reported the situation and Rob's intentions accurately, and as mentioned earlier by 60526 the layout is in the hands of someone who truly understands and respects the importance of the layout to the hobby as a whole, has a genuine love for the layout and is a worthy custodian for it. 

 

Steve S

 

* As mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, the ghost of Borchester Town can indeed be seen underneath the baseboards of Borchester Market!

[APOLLO]

Glad to read Borchester still lives and is in working condition etc. I wish it's new owner every success.

 

Such an inspirational layout, I bought the mag dedicated to it back in September 1980, Model railways - Still have it, a bit dog eared now !!

 

 

Brit15