A Borchester Market layout appreciation topic

[Pacific231G]

The Frank Dyer track standard, no reason not to suggest the same one used for Borchester Market since a lot of the original stock would still be running on it.

So 16.5mm gauge.Look back at post 139 in this topic.

Or even 0.65", Yes,  I saw that post when it appeared and found it Intereresting that he specified dimensions in imperial units (were his standards different from BRMSB or simply expressed in inches?)  That's common enough in the US where even proto 87.1 is specified in inches as well as mm but I've not been aware of anyone else doing it in British OO since the 1920s.

 

I was really though wondering whether having used 16.2mm gauge succesfully for Dyer's End he'd continued with that for Hardwick Grange or whether Dyer's Ends had been a one-off "proof of concept".

 

BTW Does anyone know whether Frank Dyer used commercial gauges or built his own?

Edited December 14, 2015 by Pacific231G

[TonyW1960]

I'm almost 100% certain that Frank built his own gauges.  I recall him telling me that he developed most of his standards while making the railway on the steelworks demonstration model work (see the MRJ Compendium from a number of years ago).

[dunwurken]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before on this thread but whilst browsing on u-tube I came accross a video of a 1980's TV show on railway modelling and lo and behold there was Borchester.  It starts 52 secs into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiTWC0CuYi0

Malcolm

[robertc]

I have read a lot of British magazines over the decades.

What I admired about Frank Dyer was his insistence that trains operate reliably, both mechanically and electrically. By ensuring that equipment was altered to his standards he was able to have the operators run a reliable service without constantly apologising for derailing stock, locos that needed a push and stock coming uncoupled.

 

regards

 Bob

[60526]

We've just put the layout back up together in the clubroom to get it ready for York. As usual it decided to get our brains ticking over more than we would like, it does this every time as if "oh here we go again". We knew about problems with the point throw(s) around the station entrance and goods yard, we'd been having a few derailments, we made some running repairs at Wakefield but it didn't totally cure it, a few of the signal/point cords decided to get tangled up underneath the board, some niggling problem with the set position of a micro switch. We are also seeing wear between control wires and point arms, too much slack which is not helping. For the first in over 10 years since we've been looking after the layout we've finally got around to curing a problem with the release points on platforms 2 and 3, the point polarity wires here had never been replaced but you can only repair things so many times, we've managed to find a way of using micro-switches to the two release points and 3-way in this area without affecting the point movement. In the GN fiddleyard approach we had been having problems with wire polarity switching so we have put in a few more micro switches, so we decided to test it all and what do you know, two of the section would not work and we could not believe it. Out comes the tester, all ok with the points straight, all ok points on the curves, a bit of cursing going on and this is where you thank one of your club colleague who comes along and hits his head against a piece of wood that is supporting the GN control panel and puts the world to right, perhaps not his head but it now works ok, meaning that we have to investigate what was going on with the control panel in the first place. Some oxide joints in there perhaps.

In its 2nd life Borchester now has its own dedicated loco. My endeavours with an EM to OO back conversion Lima/Perseverance J50 was taxing my own perverance, good chassis, gearbox seems ok but probably wrong motor selection. So what do Hornby do, produce a J50. I have a preference for using modified RTR or kit built locos but for just under £70 we had to have one. In time I’ll post a photo but Ian Forsyth who’s one of the group members has given the model a bit of a renumber - light weathering and added some subtle patches to the tank sides, but what a cracking model for the price. Depends what you want out of the hobby but using RTR models like this makes the hobby too easy, and there is me with unmade kits of a J15, D16, B12, 02/3 etc, these will get made eventually but to a slightly wider gauge than Borchester.

We’re looking forward to the York Show, never exhibited a layout there before. We’ve changes coming up to the loco roster, dropping out a Hornby L1 due to continuing bogie problems, no time to really look into this because Ian is finishing off his latest PDK pacific kit which will come in. The layout is operated with a core of locos that are matched to the timetable, by that I mean that 60113 will appear on the 08:00 local arrival and then depart on the 09:00 KX. So to change things around a bit we are going to have some guest locos within the core this time and they are being provided by the Duke of Little Bytham. We had to use more diesels than we wanted at Wakefield due to a few steam locos playing up, so a few of these will be removed and incoming will be a B12/3, C12, J6, K2 and N5, we’d used the J6 and K2 before at Southwold for the non-core freight service(s) which only involves a straight GN fiddleyard via the viaduct to the Colliery movement or reverse of course, both are fitted with Portescap motors and run superbly. The B12/3 can come in and replace the class 31 on the Cambridge service, the C12 for the local 2 coach service from Grantham, we’ve used a 9F on this a couple of times, why? Because we found photos of a New England 9F on local services in the same area, the excellent Keith Pirt from memory. The N5 will be used to replace a N2 on the GC line, will look at fitting the J6 and K2 into the timetable slots that they would originally have been in when Frank was operating the layout.

[jwealleans]

Front bogies on Hornby L1s are an ongoing source of trouble. There are various degrees of cure - slacken the front screw under the chassis keeper plate slightly, thin down the rear of the bogie where it fits under the plate, add a centring spring or replace the stupid twin cam arrangement with a proper single pivot.

 

We had two on Thurston - mine needed a piece of wire adding to centre the bogie again, the other had had nothing done at all.

 

I shall look forward to spotting the guests at York.

[glo41f]

I hope to be at York and now I see there is a bonus with Borchester being there. Are there bookings for seats please? Glad to learn that you are getting the gremlins sorted. I think you are right in getting a stud of locos that are reliable as that was Frank's way. It will certainly add to my joy of going to York again. Will TW be with you all the time?

 

Martin Long

[60526]

Jonathan, I'll see if i can prise the L1 away from Ian and have a look. It is strange because we do not have any problems with the other L1 and the B-B's are the same.

Martin, aside from BM the line-up for York looks good http://www.yorkshow.org.uk/layouts.htm , we might have a few spare seats around the back if you want to view the fiddleyard, there are photos of the single/double/3-way pointwork earlier in this topic to give you a clue of what to see. As far as I know TW will have his own table at the show.

[Metr0Land]

Front bogies on Hornby L1s are an ongoing source of trouble. There are various degrees of cure - slacken the front screw under the chassis keeper plate slightly, thin down the rear of the bogie where it fits under the plate, add a centring spring or replace the stupid twin cam arrangement with a proper single pivot.

 

We had two on Thurston - mine needed a piece of wire adding to centre the bogie again, the other had had nothing done at all.

 

I shall look forward to spotting the guests at York.

If you want a quick low-tech bodge solution then have a look at my 2012 post here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51794-Hornby-l1-front-bogie-derailing/

 

It's been suggested that phosphor-bronze or somesuch would be longer lasting.  However, if you want them running without derailing and don't look at the locos at track level, this can save a lot of hair pulling until you're ready to install a better-engineered solution.

[60526]

Well we are just over 10 days to go until we take the wonderful journey from the Souf coast up to York, we thought exhibiting at Warley was something but really looking forward to this one. L1, Ian was running this up and down the station approach pointwork and true to form it was derailing the 4 wheel bogie when going forward, yes forward? What it turned out to be was that he had replaced the original couplings with wire loop, going in reverse with the 4W bogie leading was not a problem but you could see that when the loco was reversed to go forward the loco would move about 2-3mm before the 4W bogie started moving meaning that when the loco turned through a point the wire loop fouled part of the loco chassis and derailed. Loop has been changed so all is good now. It's not a 5 minute job changing the loco roster on Borchester, we've ended up with 6 new locos coming in for York, but to slightly upset matters we've had to be careful with which locos we used for shunting in the station goods yard, would like to use the Gibson J11 and Bmann J39's but have had a few problems, the Hornby J50 looks at home in the yard and works well, but some of the diesels namely the Bmann cl20 and 24 have been kept in because they are just so smooth and rarely give any problems. Mad really but we'll have 37 locos in the roster, for the first time no A3's, Galtee More is being replaced by Duke of Rothsay, it should have a AWS box somewhere, but nobody seems to know where it should be.  

I mentioned before that the Hornby J50 is cracking little model for the money, as always you look at photos for inspiration and Ian's made a few mods and lightly weathered it. 68963 just happens to be the same number as Franks original J50. 

[60526]

Well we had a good weekend at the York show, left at 06:30 on the Thursday morning and had a leisurely run up via the M40/42 without any real trouble unlike the Friday when the roads were madness. Managed to get a quick visit into the NRM and I think luckily saw 60103 being shunted out by an 08 behind a Stanier brake and Duchess of Hamilton from the workshop. To quote somebody else, that's a novel way of using a Duchess as a barrier vehicle, I hadn't seen the Scotsman since its return but it looks absolutely brilliant. Before I get carried away we squeezed in a trip to Scarborough for some fish and chips down by the harbour, weather was not on our side but worth the visit.

Never done a full 3 day show before and must say that it was tiring, coming home on Monday night did not help. For some photos you might want to view Tony Warmsleys site https://www.flickr.com/photos/75514026@N03/albums/72157649004452418

As usual the layout came up with a couple of weird problems but nothing that could not be solved. Having said that we are going to have to think of what we are going to do next to preserve the layout. About time we replaced the temporary BM signal box? Operating the GC fiddleyard needs improving, thinking that we need to replacing the original switch panel. Need to improve some of the uncouplers, they were made for Franks original stock only and not really for more modern day TL's. We need to look at all the wiring joints under the GN fyard, something is not quite right which leads to plugs onto the control panel, some of these are from the 1950's, we had to hot wire around one plug prior to the show because of a poor contact. As it stands we have not accepted any more exhibition invites, the Newhaven club is going to lose it's clubrooms soon due to redevelopment and we're not likely to find a large enough premises for all the layouts, so BM has returned to store in its original shed, I think that we need to carry out some TLC without having any deadlines.

Finally an appeal, we had 4 of Tony Wrights locos running at York, his B12, J6, K2 and N5 plus the first outing for 60508 Duke of Rothsay, if anyone took any BM photos we would not mind seeing them if possible. 

[Pacific231G]

Well we had a good weekend at the York show, left at 06:30 on the Thursday morning and had a leisurely run up via the M40/42 without any real trouble unlike the Friday when the roads were madness. Managed to get a quick visit into the NRM and I think luckily saw 60103 being shunted out by an 08 behind a Stanier brake and Duchess of Hamilton from the workshop. To quote somebody else, that's a novel way of using a Duchess as a barrier vehicle, I hadn't seen the Scotsman since its return but it looks absolutely brilliant. Before I get carried away we squeezed in a trip to Scarborough for some fish and chips down by the harbour, weather was not on our side but worth the visit.

Never done a full 3 day show before and must say that it was tiring, coming home on Monday night did not help. For some photos you might want to view Tony Warmsleys site https://www.flickr.com/photos/75514026@N03/albums/72157649004452418

As usual the layout came up with a couple of weird problems but nothing that could not be solved. Having said that we are going to have to think of what we are going to do next to preserve the layout. About time we replaced the temporary BM signal box? Operating the GC fiddleyard needs improving, thinking that we need to replacing the original switch panel. Need to improve some of the uncouplers, they were made for Franks original stock only and not really for more modern day TL's. We need to look at all the wiring joints under the GN fyard, something is not quite right which leads to plugs onto the control panel, some of these are from the 1950's, we had to hot wire around one plug prior to the show because of a poor contact. As it stands we have not accepted any more exhibition invites, the Newhaven club is going to lose it's clubrooms soon due to redevelopment and we're not likely to find a large enough premises for all the layouts, so BM has returned to store in its original shed, I think that we need to carry out some TLC without having any deadlines.

Finally an appeal, we had 4 of Tony Wrights locos running at York, his B12, J6, K2 and N5 plus the first outing for 60508 Duke of Rothsay, if anyone took any BM photos we would not mind seeing them if possible. 

I'm sorry to hear that it won't be possible to see Borchester for a while but it's perfectly understandable.

 

I've really enjoyed the chance to finally see this iconic layout in action at three shows at least and you deserve everyone's appreciation for all the hard work to preserve it. Some of the carping from people who clearly have no idea of the task involved and who seem to have expected perfection must have been really irritating if not downright discouraging. I for one want to thank you for bringing Borchester Market back to life and would like to wish you the very best of luck with the TLC. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Pacific231G

[glo41f]

I too would like to add my thanks and appreciation for your efforts with BM. I watched it for a while at York and was impressed with the standards you achieved though there were a couple of SPADS! (Note to operators/signallers - always restore your signals and section switches at the conclusion of any move. Then the problems will not happen.)

 

I do hope that you get suitable accommodation sorted out for the club and for yourselves soon and hope that BM will be around for a while to come to show us how it should be done.

 

Martin Long

[Brit70053]

I too was grateful to have opportunities to view the layout 3 times during the Saturday at York. Having read of Borchester Market over the years, I never really expected to be able to view it 'in the flesh' and to appreciate the oft quoted philosophies behind the build and operational potential.

I hope the club will find suitable new premises and that your work on the preservation, including such repairs as you judge necessary, of the layout will continue successfully.

Thank you,

 

Regards,

John

[dunwurken]

As usual the layout came up with a couple of weird problems but nothing that could not be solved. Having said that we are going to have to think of what we are going to do next to preserve the layout. About time we replaced the temporary BM signal box? Operating the GC fiddleyard needs improving, thinking that we need to replacing the original switch panel. Need to improve some of the uncouplers, they were made for Franks original stock only and not really for more modern day TL's. We need to look at all the wiring joints under the GN fyard, something is not quite right which leads to plugs onto the control panel, some of these are from the 1950's, we had to hot wire around one plug prior to the show because of a poor contact. As it stands we have not accepted any more exhibition invites, the Newhaven club is going to lose it's clubrooms soon due to redevelopment and we're not likely to find a large enough premises for all the layouts, so BM has returned to store in its original shed, I think that we need to carry out some TLC without having any deadlines.

As yes, the delights of attempting to keep an old show on the road.  In view of the problems you have encountered and the forthcoming loss of the clubrooms I think you are very wise to take a step back from attending exhibitions.  Is BM's original shed dry and able to be kept within a reasonable temperature range?   One of the main reasons the C&MR resides at home with me rather than in the Edinburgh & Lothians clubroom is dampness and the lack of heating in the clubroom outwith club evenings.  We sprang another roof leak recently, luckily was in the toilet and not over a layout!

Keep up the good work.  I am sure we are being watched from above by Frank, Peter Denny, PDH and others

Malcolm

[60526]

Again, an appeal for any photos taken at York would be appreciated. If you don't want to post them on here then pm to newhavendmrc@gmail.com.

From the early days of exhibiting BM we have always had negative views from some, it can perform faultlessly and they always will, some just can't help themselves. So thanks for the kind comments being made, your added to our Xmas card list. The shed is called Borchester Towers and while the layout was located in our clubroom I think I lost some of the roofing felt at least 3 times and it leaked through to the floor, but it's all been replaced again, this time with some of those capping tiles that you can get from Wickes, the shed front has also been replaced with new T&G, the windows are blanked off at the moment while new frames are made. The shed is insulated with polystyrene sheeting, but it does get very hot during the summer and cold during the winter but it is dry. SPADS, I know those operators at the front of the layout are terrible, must be at least 3 of them on yellow cards, I tend to stick around the back of the layout and operate the fiddleyards and of course I never make mistakes. As intimated earlier we were using some of Tony Wrights locos and as a consequence it looks like we are going to buy a SEF N5, nice model, Frank never used one to my knowledge but we can stretch reality to use one on BM, we already have a J6 and K2 being worked on so they should be out next time but as a bit of RTR feedback the Hornby J50 has really turned out to be a good buy. To finish, there are 3 of us who own BM, we've got to sit down take a step back and decide where we want to go next and how long it is going to take. To my mind if you are exhibiting a layout somebody is paying a lot of money for you to be there, so you need to put on a good show. The layout and stock need to be reliable, dealing with the latter is the easy bit, but I just think that the layout was telling us something that it doesn't like being bumped around in the back of a van for 6 hours, some of the baseboards are really heavy and flex around a bit in the back of the van.

[Tony Wright]

Again, an appeal for any photos taken at York would be appreciated. If you don't want to post them on here then pm to newhavendmrc@gmail.com.

From the early days of exhibiting BM we have always had negative views from some, it can perform faultlessly and they always will, some just can't help themselves. So thanks for the kind comments being made, your added to our Xmas card list. The shed is called Borchester Towers and while the layout was located in our clubroom I think I lost some of the roofing felt at least 3 times and it leaked through to the floor, but it's all been replaced again, this time with some of those capping tiles that you can get from Wickes, the shed front has also been replaced with new T&G, the windows are blanked off at the moment while new frames are made. The shed is insulated with polystyrene sheeting, but it does get very hot during the summer and cold during the winter but it is dry. SPADS, I know those operators at the front of the layout are terrible, must be at least 3 of them on yellow cards, I tend to stick around the back of the layout and operate the fiddleyards and of course I never make mistakes. As intimated earlier we were using some of Tony Wrights locos and as a consequence it looks like we are going to buy a SEF N5, nice model, Frank never used one to my knowledge but we can stretch reality to use one on BM, we already have a J6 and K2 being worked on so they should be out next time but as a bit of RTR feedback the Hornby J50 has really turned out to be a good buy. To finish, there are 3 of us who own BM, we've got to sit down take a step back and decide where we want to go next and how long it is going to take. To my mind if you are exhibiting a layout somebody is paying a lot of money for you to be there, so you need to put on a good show. The layout and stock need to be reliable, dealing with the latter is the easy bit, but I just think that the layout was telling us something that it doesn't like being bumped around in the back of a van for 6 hours, some of the baseboards are really heavy and flex around a bit in the back of the van.

 

Here's one.

 

It's on my thread as well, plus another. I'll process the last one later today. 

 

Are the signals operated by cotton? I've never had to cut round so many pieces of a gantry!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[60526]

Tony, Almost but not quite, all signals, points and uncouplers are operated via these strings, the material seems to be fairly neutral and is not affected by heat or humidity. On your thread how could you just say another Duke of Rothsay, I think I am right in saying that Ian Forsyth has now kit built all the A1 and A2 variants and this one is a particularly good one. If you have any photos of the C12 or N5 running that would be good, after an initial slicky start both of them eased up and ran very well. The K2 and J6 were already well oiled and ran from straight out of the box. Must admit some embarassment at how long it is taking me to get my C12, J6 and K2 running properly, your poppy chassis rig has given me some thought on how to get the chassis reset if they need it. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony, Almost but not quite, all signals, points and uncouplers are operated via these strings, the material seems to be fairly neutral and is not affected by heat or humidity. On your thread how could you just say another Duke of Rothsay, I think I am right in saying that Ian Forsyth has now kit built all the A1 and A2 variants and this one is a particularly good one. If you have any photos of the C12 or N5 running that would be good, after an initial slicky start both of them eased up and ran very well. The K2 and J6 were already well oiled and ran from straight out of the box. Must admit some embarassment at how long it is taking me to get my C12, J6 and K2 running properly, your poppy chassis rig has given me some thought on how to get the chassis reset if they need it. 

Did I just say 'another' DUKE OF ROTHESAY on my thread? I accept that Ian's is very nicely made, but are you suggesting that it's better than the other ones I cited? I'll post pictures of some of the others for you to compare. 

 

My apologies for the initial sticky running of the two tanks. As I mentioned, though I made them, they are not my property and have lived in their boxes in Ian Wilson's home for over five years. It was remiss of me not to give them a thorough test beforehand. Unfortunately, they were not on view on Borchester when I took the pictures. 

[Tony Wright]

 

This is the last of the Borchester pictures I took at York.

 

One thing which strikes me in this picture, having taken a few pictures of Borchester Market when it was at the Wolverhampton Show when Frank Dyer and his crew brought it up, is the preponderance of RTR locos, compared with what Frank ran on Borchester. This is not a criticism, merely an observation. I wonder what the great man himself would have done were he still alive. Used it, I imagine. And, modified it, weathered it and improved it. Just as in the examples shown here. 

[mullie]

I have the issues of Model Railways featuring both Buckingham and Borchester and was lucky enough to see Borchester at the old Westminster exhibition many years ago. The two magazines are very cherished processions and it was rereading the articles this week that led me to search for any threads on RM Web. It has taken me a few days to read from start to finish but I have thoroughly enjoyed the process. It is good to see the layouts being preserved and above all used which is after all what both were designed for.

 

I suppose the increasing use of rtr on Borchester shows how the hobby has developed over the years. As a GE/M&GN modeller, when I started around 1978 I could never have imagined that I would have J15, D16, J39 and 4mt models available to get me started even if I have got to resort to kits to get the small locos/coaching stock I desire.  Perhaps we really have never had it so good.

 

Will be following this thread with interest.

 

Martyn

Edited April 6, 2016 by mullie

[60526]

I can't say whether Ian's loco is better than others because I haven't see others, but he does the research based on a specific timeframe, makes the models and completes them himself. Take my word for it, they are very good. Just a statistic, at York we had 26 steam locos running of which 15 were kit built, 4 were made by TonyW (our J6 and C12 are not ready yet) and the remaining 11 by Ian although he could have supplied I think up to 17 kit built locos if we needed. So we used 11 detailed or modified RTR steam locos this time and yes "the hobby has developed over the years" and we have to make a judgement on how the models are going to perform. It is not a tail chasing layout where locos are on the move all the time, there is a lot of shunting going on so slow speed performance comes into it hence why on merit we use some RTR models, we also use diesels in the good yards where we know that they are going to behave themselves, the Hornby 08 shunter at BM because it does the job perfectly, one day it will be replaced by a Drewry shunter but not just yet.

You are right, we have never had it so good, but it depends on what your interest is, running trains? building models? Personally, I've already bought kits to make for a future GE/GN layout and that is where my interest is.

 

Another question, in deliberating over what to do with the GN fyard control panel, has anyone any experience with using a diode matrix for switching up to 5 or 6 H&M point motors? 

[Tony Wright]

I can't say whether Ian's loco is better than others because I haven't see others, but he does the research based on a specific timeframe, makes the models and completes them himself. Take my word for it, they are very good. Just a statistic, at York we had 26 steam locos running of which 15 were kit built, 4 were made by TonyW (our J6 and C12 are not ready yet) and the remaining 11 by Ian although he could have supplied I think up to 17 kit built locos if we needed. So we used 11 detailed or modified RTR steam locos this time and yes "the hobby has developed over the years" and we have to make a judgement on how the models are going to perform. It is not a tail chasing layout where locos are on the move all the time, there is a lot of shunting going on so slow speed performance comes into it hence why on merit we use some RTR models, we also use diesels in the good yards where we know that they are going to behave themselves, the Hornby 08 shunter at BM because it does the job perfectly, one day it will be replaced by a Drewry shunter but not just yet.

You are right, we have never had it so good, but it depends on what your interest is, running trains? building models? Personally, I've already bought kits to make for a future GE/GN layout and that is where my interest is.

 

Another question, in deliberating over what to do with the GN fyard control panel, has anyone any experience with using a diode matrix for switching up to 5 or 6 H&M point motors? 

My comment about Ian's locos was in your response to your 'how could you just say another DUKE OF ROTHESAY', which I didn't write. Frankly, I'm a bit puzzled, but I don't catch on quickly these days.

 

In hindsight, I was a bit disappointed by the final Borchester shot I took, because all the visible stock was RTR. I just took a picture of what was there, and it would have been more interesting if the kit-built specimens were to the fore. But, thanks for the opportunity of taking the pictures. 

 

I'm sure, as I intimated, Frank would have been extremely happy exploiting what the RTR boys have given us in recent years. It's just that, in his day, RTR was so awful that he had to build all the stock himself, though wasn't there a modified RTR Brush Type 2? 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Tony Wright

[RANGERS]

Spent a pleasant half hour in front of BM at York, when I finally managed to get through the three deep crowd who seemed permanently camped there whenever I walked past earlier in the day, and it was a real pleasure to see it again. I've seen it a few times since it's re-birth and saw it a couple of times when FD was in charge and it still has the magnetism which first attracted me to it the best part of 40 years ago. Everything about it looks "just right", a consistent approach which coupled with the strict adherence to prototypical operation makes this such a unique portrait.

 

The guys who have put so much effort into BM deserve our thanks, it's preserved a keynote piece of model railway history and something which has inspired so many of us over the years.

[glo41f]

Tony is correct in that FD did have a modified RTR Brush type 2 on BM. I am sure that he would have used many of the present range of models available (pension permitting as it is not a cheap option these days). I feel the present owners have got it right and the shade of FD is smiling on their efforts. BM has several attributes the main one being a consistency  of standard, correct operation and a realistic timetable which reflects the real traffic that such a town would generate. I always wanted to copy the layout and once made a start but then a house move and conversion to 7mm came along.

 

Martin Long