A Borchester Market layout appreciation topic

[kevinlms]

40 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

No it doesn't Kevin! The reason (excuse) will be that if it was just a news item, as distinct from a feature article on the exhibition, I wouldn't have indexed it anyway. Even if I had, I probably wouldn't have referenced Borchester or Dyer in the entry.

Agreed, my point was that sometimes, information pops up in unexpected places and not just articles. Indeed, I only found it by accident, in that I turned the page and thought I'd seen that track configuration before! Nowhere, does the preview say that it's Borchester or Frank Dyer.

 

An important source is the letters page, where corrections and additional information can turn up, such as pointing out where drawings in prior issues had errors etc. CJF often put little notes of correction in the 'News Special' page. Virtually impossible to find!

[St Enodoc]

33 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Agreed, my point was that sometimes, information pops up in unexpected places and not just articles. Indeed, I only found it by accident, in that I turned the page and thought I'd seen that track configuration before! Nowhere, does the preview say that it's Borchester or Frank Dyer.

 

An important source is the letters page, where corrections and additional information can turn up, such as pointing out where drawings in prior issues had errors etc. CJF often put little notes of correction in the 'News Special' page. Virtually impossible to find!

That's a good point, Kevin.

 

If I spot a later correction, or some supplementary information, then I add a cross-reference to it in the entry for the original article. Easier to do that than to create a new entry.

 

That works as long as I don't miss it...

 

For those who are interested, my index uses the late Bill Massey's "Railway Search Index" database, which is no longer available to new subscribers since Bill's death a few years ago. I helped Bill by indexing my full collection of Railway Modellers, which he then shared with other subscribers.

[SteveyDee68]

On 29/08/2020 at 16:45, 60526 said:

Steve, can you tell Rob that the battery you were looking at powers this, the approach platform indicator.

If Rob doesn't understand anything, its best to leave alone until it can be worked out. Everything on that layout is there for a reason. I think you'll find some text in a 1950's article somewhere that the Borchester layouts were started late 1940's and preceded the Archers.

Regards Charlie

 

Not sure how I missed this post, but having just seen it now I shall pass the information to Rob. Hoping to perhaps meet up with him this weekend and have a bit if a catch up.

 

Steve S

[Pacific231G]

Does anyone have any updates on what has become of Borchester Market?

I'm just glad I manage to see it a few times when it was on the exhibition circuit.

[Invicta Informant]

I remember Borchester Market from A Lineside Look At Model Railways. It is in this part between 0:59 and 5:51. From what I have read and seen on this thread, I am glad that it has been saved for posterity.

 

[SteveyDee68]

Borchester Market has been adopted by the Lancashire & Yorkshire DCC Group, after it’s most recent custodian (who is himself a member of the group) felt he was no longer up to the task of restoring it, due to poor health.

 

As he had all of the background material, wiring diagrams etc as passed to him from the Newhaven group, it means the group have all the necessary information to allow them to proceed with restoring it but as a club rather than an individual project.

 

I am sure there will be a magazine article at some future date to explain what they are doing with it, but as a DCC focused group their intention is to update the electrics to DCC for powering the trains, but also retain the ability to revert to the original DC control system.

Points and signals will, however, still be mechanical and operate the way Frank Dyer designed them, with interlocking points/signals; the only major difference being that the interlocking will no longer also control power supply to the track. This does mean that, in theory, trains could be driven into one another (!) except that, being operated correctly and with drivers obeying the signals, that should not happen.

 

There are plans to refresh the scenery to more modern standards, but as Dorchester is essentially an operator’s layout the focus will remain upon this.

 

Eventually the layout will be available to be seen/operated at their club rooms; I had hoped to be involved with its restoration in some small way, but work commitments have rather squashed those good intentions on my part!

 

At some point I am sure that the L&YDCC Group themselves will post about developments with the layout.

 

Steve S

[kevinlms]

So what happened to Bromford & High Peak?

[SteveyDee68]

50 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

So what happened to Bromford & High Peak?

 
My personal micro “Blackford Wharf” is ‘inspired’ by Cromford Wharf on the C&HPR, and is (in my imagination) the exchange sidings at the other end of the line from High Peak Limestone & Tarmacadam*, the micro originally built by @Ruston of this parish. From my layout thread you will see that this is not so much a “slow burner” as a “barely smouldering” project; my skill set is limited (almost non existent) and so everything is a learning curve!

I had hoped to join the L&YDCCG in order to learn/develop such skills and assist with Borchester Market, but pressures of work put a stop to those plans. My C&HPR inspired layout shall plod on, recorded elsewhere on RMWeb.

 

Steve S

 

* Under new stewardship, and unfortunately the thread lost all of its inspiring photographs in the RMWeb server crash earlier this year. 😔
 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by SteveyDee68
Grammar

[Pacific231G]

10 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Borchester Market has been adopted by the Lancashire & Yorkshire DCC Group, after it’s most recent custodian (who is himself a member of the group) felt he was no longer up to the task of restoring it, due to poor health.

 

As he had all of the background material, wiring diagrams etc as passed to him from the Newhaven group, it means the group have all the necessary information to allow them to proceed with restoring it but as a club rather than an individual project.

 

 

Thanks for this Steve. It is good to know that Borchester Market is with a group who intend to maintain it. I'm unlikely to see it in Lancashire and Yorkshire but it's probably safer in a permanent location than in the wear and tear of exhibtions.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Interesting that the interlocking controlled power to the track — I believe Buckingham had something very similar.

[kevinlms]

28 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Interesting that the interlocking controlled power to the track — I believe Buckingham had something very similar.

IIRC it was a house speciality of the builder(s) - accurate and reliable operating, so you had to correctly set up points and signals, before it would work!

[t-b-g]

There is no interlocking as such on Buckingham. You can pull any combination of points and signals you like. It is just that the power supply to the track is via switches on the signal levers. So a track is isolated until a signal is pulled. So if you pull a wrong signal lever, the wrong train will go.

 

If you set the correct signals and the correct points, then the train you want to move will go. If you set the points for one track and the signals for a different track, the train on the signalled track will run. That is, in my view, no more interlocked than having to set a section switch on a panel.

 

Interlocking, to me, indicates some sort of mechanism that prevents the operator making daft mistakes. 

[GWR8700]

Where were the two lines meant to diverge to after the junction?

[rovex]

10 minutes ago, GWR8700 said:

Where were the two lines meant to diverge to after the junction?

 

Presumably Felpersham and Ambridge

[GWR8700]

15 minutes ago, rovex said:

 

Presumably Felpersham and Ambridge

I thought the shared name of Borchester was merely a coincidence?

[t-b-g]

One line went north to join the former LD&ECR main line near Ollerton. The other headed south and east to join the ECML near Newark.

[AY Mod]

7PDF file attached showing the original topic with images thanks to @Chris_z

 

RMWeb BM01 (Merged) copy.pdf

[kevinlms]

On 30/08/2020 at 13:14, kevinlms said:

Obviously that doesn't count the photo of Borchester Town that appeared in Railway Modeller for 1959 April page 98. It's part of a preview of the then upcoming 34th Model Railway Exhibition.

I've just fixed the mistake here. I had it listed as the December issue, but it's actually April - but the page number ought to have made it suspiciously wrong! My apologies to you all - perhaps you were all wondering what I was talking about, but too polite to ask!

Chris_z might like to update his list.

 

[Pacific231G]

Good to see this thread reviving after almost three years. Does anyone know the current status of the Borchester Market layout? Last I heard the Newhaven group who'd exhibited it (for which I am eternally grateful to them) had to sell it.

[RJS1977]

2 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Good to see this thread reviving after almost three years. Does anyone know the current status of the Borchester Market layout? Last I heard the Newhaven group who'd exhibited it (for which I am eternally grateful to them) had to sell it.

 

I believe it was sold to an individual who now operates it as a "Layout that never leaves home".

[SteveyDee68]

3 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

I believe it was sold to an individual who now operates it as a "Layout that never leaves home".

 

Well, yes, and no.

 

Please see my earlier post here.

 

Steve S

 

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by SteveyDee68
Realised I had just repeated myself from an earlier post!

[kevinlms]

On 01/10/2022 at 12:55, SteveyDee68 said:

Borchester Market has been adopted by the Lancashire & Yorkshire DCC Group, after it’s most recent custodian (who is himself a member of the group) felt he was no longer up to the task of restoring it, due to poor health.

 

As he had all of the background material, wiring diagrams etc as passed to him from the Newhaven group, it means the group have all the necessary information to allow them to proceed with restoring it but as a club rather than an individual project.

 

I am sure there will be a magazine article at some future date to explain what they are doing with it, but as a DCC focused group their intention is to update the electrics to DCC for powering the trains, but also retain the ability to revert to the original DC control system.

Points and signals will, however, still be mechanical and operate the way Frank Dyer designed them, with interlocking points/signals; the only major difference being that the interlocking will no longer also control power supply to the track. This does mean that, in theory, trains could be driven into one another (!) except that, being operated correctly and with drivers obeying the signals, that should not happen.

 

There are plans to refresh the scenery to more modern standards, but as Dorchester is essentially an operator’s layout the focus will remain upon this.

 

Eventually the layout will be available to be seen/operated at their club rooms; I had hoped to be involved with its restoration in some small way, but work commitments have rather squashed those good intentions on my part!

 

At some point I am sure that the L&YDCC Group themselves will post about developments with the layout.

 

Steve S

Yes all very well, but won't DCC'ing it affect it's historical value? 😇

[SteveyDee68]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Yes all very well, but won't DCC'ing it affect it's historical value? 😇

I’m no expert but the chap I chatted to seemed very confident about their plans, which were to connect the power supply via a huge multi wired connecting loom which would make it interchangeable for both DCC and DC power. This is only to provide power to the locos - all the points and signals would be controlled as originally designed.

 

They are very aware of the historical significance of the layout but, just like the previous club changed the fiddle yards to make it more suitable to their purposes, so they also aim to make it suitable to run DCC fitted locos upon, but whilst retaining the possibility of reverting to DC.

 

At the end of the day, these guys are the ones who are giving the layout space in their club room and spending time and money “refreshing” the layout in order to preserve it for the future whilst making it usable (and maintainable) for themselves, so I say good luck to them.

 

Steve S

[RJS1977]

It depends how it's done.

 

My club's (Reading Society of Model Engineers) 00 layout converts to DCC by the simple expedient of disconnecting all the analogue controllers, plugging in a DCC Command Station, and turning all the switches on.

 

It's not the "purists" way of doing it, as points remain self-isolating, which means if you park a loco in a siding and change the points, sound and lights go off, but as we have very few sound-fitted locos between us, it's not a big handicap.

[BernardTPM]

3 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

It's not the "purists" way of doing it, as points remain self-isolating, which means if you park a loco in a siding and change the points, sound and lights go off, but as we have very few sound-fitted locos between us, it's not a big handicap.

And for the period the layout is set in daytime running wouldn't really require lights.