Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

I don't know, history getting in the way of reality.

 

I saw the Young Englishman today.  He looked at me quite seriously, and said, "I have just received a letter.  I think you ought to read it."

 

It was a cream envelope, addressed in purple ink.  I opened it and read:-

 

Greetings old friend,

Well, I have news! Not particularly good news, but news all the same.  Would you believe the railway company that we are hiring the coach, no, the coaches and the boxey thing to put the horse in and the wagon for the carriage have said we cannot have it.  Blamed it on the Great Western, said that they would not let any carriage on their lines without brakes.  How stupid!  They say it is dangerous.  Goodness me, it never killed my father, and I am sure it will not kill me.  Railway safety gone mad if you ask me.  I told Rayne that the trip was off.  "Oh dear," she said, "I am disappointed."  Mind you, I am sure I saw her conceal a smirk.

 

Now, my good fellow, we cannot let them get away with that.  Certainly not.  No, I told them straight that they would have to fix it, get it up to whatever standard it needs to be.  They said it needs two brakes, one air, one vacuum.  Perhaps you need some contraption, one minute to suck, the next to blow?  Makes no sense to me.  Still, they have four wheels so two brakes still leaves two wheels free, so should not be a problem.  

 

So I come to the reason I have written.  That chap of yours, you know, the one who dabbles in railways.  Can you get him to fix it.  I will pay of course.  Need to learn about railways really, fascinating things.  Can you sort it out for me old chap.

 

thank you,

yours truely

 

Jon

 

I looked at my friend, "He seems a bit put out," I said, and at last his face cracked.  

"Just a little, but more because he will have to pay for it.  You will fix it though?"

"Yes of course.  Will he forward the money to me?"

He smiled, "I would just get on with it first if I were you."

 

Yes of course, otherwise it would never happen.

 

(I do know that in Gary's time Sir Jon was a great railway enthusiast, perhas he learnt a lot during the intervening years.)

[Mikkel]

The coaches are progressing very nicely Chris, what a unique set they are. One of your coaches is worth 100 RTR coaches in my view (nothing wrong with RTR coaches, BTW).

 

Regarding brakes, don't forget the T brakes. They are essential for serious modellers. You'll be needing B skits too. 

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

The coaches are progressing very nicely Chris, what a unique set they are. One of your coaches is worth 100 RTR coaches in my view (nothing wrong with RTR coaches, BTW).

 

Regarding brakes, don't forget the T brakes. They are essential for serious modellers. You'll be needing B skits too. 

 

Thank you Mikkel, that is very kind.

 

I do like looking at the coaches together on my layout and seeing the different lengths and slightly different heights, so much more interesting than a uniform rake.

 

Worth a 100 RTR coaches.  Wow!  When I wrote my will earlier this year, (I thought it was about time as we had intended to write them when my first son was born, and he was thirty-six last birthday), I did an appendix for my model railway things.  I stated that some things were scratch built and so were the only ones in the world, and so priceless.  Yep, worth nothing at all.  Perhaps I ought to rewrite it.  

 

Thank you again.  (I do really know what you mean and it is very kind.)

Edited November 21, 2020 by ChrisN

[Mikkel]

2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

an appendix for my model railway things

 

Not a bad idea really. I've always found such lists a bit boring, but as a help for those remain behind it might be wise. Are you doing yours figure by figure? 

[corneliuslundie]

I asked Ian. As I half expected I got more of an answer than we really need:

"In the attached - see Table 8.2 - saloons.

There is a kit for D18 produced by ian macCormac:

http://www.mjwsjw.co.uk/carriage_&_npcs_kits_page_1.html

Smokey Loco Models do (or used to do) kits for D17/32 (but not known to

vac piped till 1908), D20/33 (some vac piped from 1891) and D94/40 (but

not known to be vac piped till 1908).

https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/suppliers/40305-SmokeyLocoModels

Also see:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/4mm.xhtml

I have no idea if Smokey loco models kits are really still available or

not. As I have no data between 1891 and 1900 (without a visit to Kew)

I'd chance my arm and go for Ian's D18 kit, on the assumption that if

not piped by 1895, it was soon afterwards. It will also be a far better kit.

Those diagrams were all described in LBSCR Carriages Vol.2

Regards

Ian"

His attachment is attached.

So all you ned apart from the air cylinder is a second set of pipes. I think Westinghouse ones are a bit slimmer than vavuum ones but don't take my word for it.

Jonathan

4.8. Additions.docx

[ChrisN]

5 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

I asked Ian. As I half expected I got more of an answer than we really need:

"In the attached - see Table 8.2 - saloons.

There is a kit for D18 produced by ian macCormac:

http://www.mjwsjw.co.uk/carriage_&_npcs_kits_page_1.html

Smokey Loco Models do (or used to do) kits for D17/32 (but not known to

vac piped till 1908), D20/33 (some vac piped from 1891) and D94/40 (but

not known to be vac piped till 1908).

https://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/suppliers/40305-SmokeyLocoModels

Also see:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/4mm.xhtml

I have no idea if Smokey loco models kits are really still available or

not. As I have no data between 1891 and 1900 (without a visit to Kew)

I'd chance my arm and go for Ian's D18 kit, on the assumption that if

not piped by 1895, it was soon afterwards. It will also be a far better kit.

Those diagrams were all described in LBSCR Carriages Vol.2

Regards

Ian"

His attachment is attached.

So all you ned apart from the air cylinder is a second set of pipes. I think Westinghouse ones are a bit slimmer than vavuum ones but don't take my word for it.

Jonathan

4.8. Additions.docx 50.77 kB · 2 downloads

 

Jonathan,

Thank you, this is very interesting.  I had thought that they would be piped for vacuum if they were dual braked so I just need the pipes.  I shall finish off what I have and then put the LBSCR dual braked ones at the end of my carriage list otherwise I shall never build anything Cambrian.  I shall be on the look out for the correct horsebox though as that is an essential.

 

Thank you again.

[corneliuslundie]

Re horseboxes, this one seems a good starting point:

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/97/4c67-lbscr-sr-stroudley-horsebox/

And I have just discovered this page on the Brighton Cercle website:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/4mm.xhtml

It lists three horseboxes but I think two are out of production.

That site is brilliant, as is the Modelling Review.

Jonathan

[corneliuslundie]

I can't stop the fellow. He has now sent me this extract from his book. I hope it is useful to someone. How many Brighton saloons did you say you wanted to build????

Jonathan

2. Volume 2 - selected pages.pdf

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

Re horseboxes, this one seems a good starting point:

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/97/4c67-lbscr-sr-stroudley-horsebox/

And I have just discovered this page on the Brighton Cercle website:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/4mm.xhtml

It lists three horseboxes but I think two are out of production.

That site is brilliant, as is the Modelling Review.

Jonathan

 

29 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

I can't stop the fellow. He has now sent me this extract from his book. I hope it is useful to someone. How many Brighton saloons did you say you wanted to build????

Jonathan

2. Volume 2 - selected pages.pdf 1.12 MB · 0 downloads

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  The Roxey Mouldings horsebox looks the part, but is brass and needs soldering, which is on the list of things to learn, but not yet.  (It looks as if I could glue it quite easily.  Umm......, Christmas is coming.)

 

The saloons look really tempting.  I would have to make up the ends but at least one of those, (D18), seems fairly simple to put on the Silhouette.  I am not sure Sir Jon would like it as he would have to share the carriage with his children and, well servants!  He could always sit on the lift up seat in the cupboard at the end, as shown in the picture.  

 

Please pass my thanks on to Ian.

[ChrisN]

On 20/11/2020 at 13:43, MikeOxon said:

Excellent progress on the carriages.  I especially like your stapled running boards.  Now that I find it so easy to 3D-print carriage sides, I find it seems more difficult to add all these finishing touches - something to do with relativity, I expect

 

Mike,

Thank you.  I am sure it is relativity.  I look at these kits and think, I have finished.  Then I think, oh yes, vacuum/air tanks, and glazing, must not forget the roof. Painting, yes needs painting.  Vacuum pipes.  Sigh, all done.  No, passengers, and oh, couplings.

 

I am sure if you have spent all the time you do making the parts from 3D printing then once that is done you must feel you have finished.  It is just the annoying add ons that need doing that seem just a little superfluous to the project.  

 

I sometimes think I will backdate 20 years so I do not have to add the under gubbins, just not worry about vacuum cylinders and brakes.  Oh yes, I have to add brakes as well.

[MikeOxon]

59 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

........ I sometimes think I will backdate 20 years so I do not have to add the under gubbins, just not worry about vacuum cylinders and brakes.  .......

There's a lot to be said for going to an earlier period, if you want  simpler modelling experience! 

 

When I decided to scratch-build a model of a GWR 'Queen' class 2-2-2, I gained much encouragement from a statement in Russell's book on GW Engines that "The utter simplicity of these early engines can be seen.". 

 

A lot of the "under gubbins" only appeared after the mid 1870s.  In retrospect, it seems almost incredible that features such as vacuum bakes and block working  were not adopted until well after the time when railways had become an important part of national infrastructure, with express trains routinely travelling at speeds of 50 mph or more!

[Compound2632]

11 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

In retrospect, it seems almost incredible that features such as vacuum bakes and block working  were not adopted until well after the time when railways had become an important part of national infrastructure, with express trains routinely travelling at speeds of 50 mph or more!

 

Although one reads of destructive accidents that could have been avoided by "lock, block, and brake" one has to remember that most of the time the railway companies got away with it. It would be interesting to compare deaths per passenger mile on the railways in the 1860s with the roads in the 1960s...

 

Looking through the Accident Archive, it's noticeable that despite the Railways Act 1889 enforcing continuous brakes etc., the frequency of accidents doesn't actually go down significantly until after the turn of the century.

[ChrisN]

One problem people have with Mr Price is that they think he is only a model, not a real Station Master.  Well, it is his own fault; I caught him doing a modelling job, cane in one hand, miniature lamp post in the other.

 

Now this week I am not reporting modelling because, a) I have not done very much and b) what I have done I have made a pig's ear of.  (Pigs ear:  from, 'You cannot make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.  No I do not understand either.)

 

So I shall talk about timetables.  (Wake up at the back there I have not even started!)

 

There is an interesting train in the mid 1890s Cambrian Coast Line Working Timetable.  It is a Passenger/Goods train that leaves Machynlleth at 10:30 and arrives at Traeth Mawr at 12:35.  This is the same time as the train arriving from Dolgelley.  It intrigued me that two trains would arrive on a single line at the same time.  There is no mention that the Machynlleth train stops at Barmouth Junction.  However, in the 1894 timetable there is a note to say that a certain Station Master should telegraph Barmouth Junction telling them if the train has passengers for Barmouth and beyond then to not let the Dolgelley train leave until it arrives.  This note is not in the WTT for the beginning of 1895.  

 

There is a goods train from Barmouth Junction to Dolgelley leaves shortly after the train from Machnylleth arrives.  This is balanced by a down working later.  We then have a Mail train to Traeth Mawr which has no balanced return to Dolgelley, but there is a return trip to Machynlleth, which is labelled, 'Goods with Pass. from Barmouth Junction'.

 

Finally, there is a return trip from Barmouth Junction labelled 'Goods and Pass.' leaving there after the Mail train has gone through.  The only light engine working noted is the one first thing in the morning and last thing at night.

 

Why am I boring you with this.  Well, obviously things were happening that were not written down, or if they were they were written somewhere else.  So the engine from Machynlleth stops at Barmouth Junction and then takes a new goods train to Dolgelley.  I think it then stays there and another engine, unspecified, takes the goods back.  The Machynlleth engine then takes the Mail train to Traeth Mawr, waits around until it is time to take its empties back to Barmouth Junction to form its new train.  (This leaves about 40 minutes after the last train from Traeth Mawr to Machnylleth so if you missed that train you would then have the frustration of seeing an empty train leave that you could not get on.)  The unspecified engine finally takes a goods and passenger train back to Dolgelley.

 

So they have one locomotive in steam for one return journey.  Really?

 

The coaches from Machynlleth from Day 1 make the Mail  train and return working on the following day, so I need to sets of unbraked coaches.  (I am fairly certain that these trains were the last unbraked passenger trains on the Cambrian as they told the BoT that they could not stop them and carried them on until the end of 1895.  

 

The only way out is to use a GWR engine on the last train of the day, which of course never happened, but does on my railway.  Now what did I do with that 645?

 

If you have been, and made it this far, thanks for looking.

Edited November 28, 2020 by ChrisN

[southern42]

On 28/11/2020 at 13:20, ChrisN said:

One problem people have with Mr Price is that they think he is only a model, not a real Station Master.  Well, it is his own fault; I caught him doing a modelling job, cane in one hand, miniature lamp post in the other.

 

Now this week I am not reporting modelling because, a) I have not done very much and b) what I have done I have made a pig's ear of.  (Pigs ear:  from, 'You cannot make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.  No I do not understand either.)

 

So I shall talk about timetables.  (Wake up at the back there I have not even started!)

 

There is an interesting train in the mid 1890s Cambrian Coast Line Working Timetable.  It is a Passenger/Goods train that leaves Machynlleth at 10:30 and arrives at Traeth Mawr at 12:35.  This is the same time as the train arriving from Dolgelley.  It intrigued me that two trains would arrive on a single line at the same time.  There is no mention that the Machynlleth train stops at Barmouth Junction.  However, in the 1894 timetable there is a note to say that a certain Station Master should telegraph Barmouth Junction telling them if the train has passengers for Barmouth and beyond then to not let the Dolgelley train leave until it arrives.  This note is not in the WTT for the beginning of 1895.  

 

There is a goods train from Barmouth Junction to Dolgelley leaves shortly after the train from Machnylleth arrives.  This is balanced by a down working later.  We then have a Mail train to Traeth Mawr which has no balanced return to Dolgelley, but there is a return trip to Machynlleth, which is labelled, 'Goods with Pass. from Barmouth Junction'.

 

Finally, there is a return trip from Barmouth Junction labelled 'Goods and Pass.' leaving there after the Mail train has gone through.  The only light engine working noted is the one first thing in the morning and last thing at night.

 

Why am I boring you with this.  Well, obviously things were happening that were not written down, or if they were they were written somewhere else.  So the engine from Machynlleth stops at Barmouth Junction and then takes a new goods train to Dolgelley.  I think it then stays there and another engine, unspecified, takes the goods back.  The Machynlleth engine then takes the Mail train to Traeth Mawr, waits around until it is time to take its empties back to Barmouth Junction to form its new train.  (This leaves about 40 minutes after the last train from Traeth Mawr to Machnylleth so if you missed that train you would then have the frustration of seeing an empty train leave that you could not get on.)  The unspecified engine finally takes a goods and passenger train back to Dolgelley.

 

So they have one locomotive in steam for one return journey.  Really?

 

The coaches from Machynlleth from Day 1 make the Mail  train and return working on the following day, so I need to sets of unbraked coaches.  (I am fairly certain that these trains were the last unbraked passenger trains on the Cambrian as they told the BoT that they could not stop them and carried them on until the end of 1895.  

 

The only way out is to use a GWR engine on the last train of the day, which of course never happened, but does on my railway.  Now what did I do with that 645?

 

If you have been, and made it this far, thanks for looking.

 

I definitely 'made it this far'.  Glad I am not in the signal box.  Just look what happened on the Caledonian Railway at Quintinshill near Gretna on 22 May 1915.

 

I find train movements fascinating.  Reading Abear's Old Oak Common and Southall accounts of locomotive wanderings rosters around the Western Region, you sometimes wonder how some of the locos ever arrived back at their own depot, let alone with their own WR crew!

 

As for trains, themselves, I certainly found out some of the problems that can arise at those big Event Days on the preserved railways, waiting for a  late train on single line working being quite common.  The most recent problem experienced was points failure at the end of our platform by the signalbox on the SVR at their Autumn Gala 2019 (just last year).  We were heading back to our B&B on the last daytime train and stuck at a station with no other form of transport, other than phoning for a Taxi, but the PW Gang (at least, those who were at hand) got the points working and the train eventually arrived.   The other good news was the through-the-night timetable was able to go ahead - we taking the first return train.

 

I think this was the signalbox referred to above.  Not very good but it highlights the difficulties of seeing in the dark!  Much respect for those working in signalboxes keeping those trains running smoothly, whatever time of day and also for Stationmaster, Mr Price even if he does like singing in the rain round lamp posts!  Are you sure that was a cane and not an umbrella in disguise?

 

 

[ChrisN]

Now a little bit of modelling.

 

I have said previously, I think, that every time I pick up the LB&SCR Saloon a step comes off.  That is an exaggeration but I have lost three.  The first I replaced the same way as I made the others, then when I lost two more I thought there had to be a better way.  To remind you, the way I did it was to cut a rectangle of plasticard, put a notch in it and superglue it to the underneath of the solebar around the support for the lower running board.  When pressed they just ping off.  So I decided to cut out the rectangle but to cut it with a tab that will go through the springs etc to the other side.  This will give it more strength, but also make the tab long enough to bend down over the solebar and super glued there as well so hopefully it will have more strength.

 

Let me show you

 

 

Two steps are missing, and ah yes, I have painted the inside.  The arm rests and bottom of the doors are Humbrol 25 blue, the seats are Humbrol 157b Azure.  The walls are Humbrol 63 Matt Sand.  (When to glaze?  I have pondered this.  In my Cambrian coaches I glazed first and then painted over the glaze hoping to keep the paint away from the window.  I decided to do it the other way round even though I shall probably have to glue to paint.)

 

Back to what I was talking about.

 

 

The steps with tabs.  The tabs are different as they have different bits to poke through.

 

 

On the top solebar you can just see on the right one tab folded and glued, the other just sticking out.  (umm, did I glue it dn after the photo, must check.)

 

Why have multiple projects and not work on them all at once?  Steps to the roof.

 

Now I could find no pictures of the saloon having steps to the roof.  'They must have,' I hear you cry, but I have found no photographs with them on, not even any by @5&9Models.  So I left the Saloon and went onto the tri-composite.

 

 

Now it occurred to me that the side with the extra step was not random.  It was by now too late to change it.  Why did I not think of this before?  Maybe I had and have forgotten that I did, but I think not.  So I checked the diagram, and the picture, and..........  it was the right side.  Phew!

 

So the stepsare 2.5 x 2.5 mm 'L' shaped plastrut cut small.  I thought about cutting the supporting side smaller but I have had problems sticking things to this plastic so left it as it was.  I then spent ages looking at where they should go, and from the drawing in the Engineer decided on the positions they are in, trying to make it the same size as the model and lining them up.  (Why did I not measure the positions?  Given the distances I do not think it would have been more accurate.)  They are superglued on as solvents have failed in the past.

 

I was happy with them until the next day I found again the diagram.  Now I have previously disregarded this and the pictures of the reconstructed coach as I thought they had moved the steps and I could not see one over the buffer beam.  The diagram clearly shows the steps straddling the frame.  I looked at the Engineer diagram again and, 'Oh yes, that is what those bits are, the frames, and yes the steps are straddling them.'  They are superglued on so are not coming off.  One more down to experience.  Please do not tell anyone and I might get away with it.  (The picture is of both ends at once, in case you wondered.)

 

So finally, I went and had Christmas with my youngest son yesterday.  (Chilli con carne and jacket potatoes, in their garden.)   They are bubbling with her parents at Christmas and have we have sort of been isolating we went and took presents.  He is the proud father of a new son, which is why isolating before seeing them is important.  (We are both Tier 2 so cannot go in their house.  This is all very well you say but why are you telling us this.  Well it is this son who gives the wise advice, 'Dad, make sure you finish something, before starting anything else.'

 

Wise advice.

 

I am desperate to get some things cut on the Silhouette before Windows 10 renews itself before I can stop it.  I have had no problems so far but I want to cut some files before it all goes wrong.  I tried last week, but moved the roller support and did not secure it properly, even though I thought I had.  Wonky cuts.  I shall try again, in smaller bits next time, however I did cut a wonky Dean Bogie, so as I GWRophiles following I thought I would make it up, just to see how it went.  If no one is looking I might stick it under a coach.  Now, this is not a new project.  Honest.  I have been working on this for months if not years.  Ok, this is not a new project.  

 

So pictures

 

 

Here are all the parts, on my cutting mat with 10 mm squares.  It is not big.  One of the bogie sides has tiny holes in it to poke through onto some strapping to make rivets.  It will not happen, it is far too small, probably.  You can see things have not been cut properly.  At the top are these bits;-

 

 

 

The final layer if the axlebox and its cover.  I have glued them together as the cover is so small that the chances of losing them are extremely high.  To remind you, two sides are made together which is why they are joined.  It was @JCL's idea and very clever too.

 

I am going to crack on with this and will discuss the limitations of cutting something this small when I post about it.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by ChrisN

[Mikkel]

Thanks for the update Chris, when read closely your accounts are quite engrossing, like the diaries of a polar explorer (I'll let you choose which one). 

 

I'm excited by the Dean Bogie. Do you think it needs some weight to navigate the rails and swivel properly? 

 

I wonder how the  world would look if fathers took the advice of their sons. And the other way round, too. Maybe not that different, really. Anyway, you have now firmly placed the thought of chili con carne and jacket potatoes in my mind. Must do something about that 

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Thanks for the update Chris, when read closely your accounts are quite engrossing, like the diaries of a polar explorer (I'll let you choose which one). 

 

Thank you Mikkel,

Polar Explorer?  You mean I know where I want to get to but am not sure how to get there?    It would have to be Capt. Scott who was following a famous Scandinavian.  

 

(His son, Sir Peter Scott, was a famous Naturalist and Conservationist who founded the Slimbridge Bird Sanctury on the River Seven.  He was quite young when his father died, and when he was in his 50s or 60s the BBC took him to the hut where his father died.  It was very moving.)

 

I do try and explain how I got to what I did, my thought processes, and lack of them, as I hope it helps.

 

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I'm excited by the Dean Bogie. Do you think it needs some weight to navigate the rails and swivel properly? 

 

 

@JCL's thread, he does not seem to need weights on the bogie, but I would assume that if the compartments above the bogie had a number of Andy Stadden figures it would help.   

 

If you look carefully at the bogies they have not cut properly.  Firstly the circles at the end of the springs are too small and the connection to the springs is too small.  I will have to redraw them with the connection larger.  There are also some shock absorbers or some such at each end which are not modelled.  The last time I cut I used a depth of 8 for the blade and this left scoring on the mat.  This time I used 7, and where lines joined there were uncut bits.  I had ungrouped everything as that was what was suggested but I shall be more circumspect about that and group together parts where it should not be a problem.  I suppose the only way I will know if it works is by redoing the bogie and making the coach, although I suppose I may only need to do the floor.  

 

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I wonder how the  world would look if fathers took the advice of their sons. And the other way round, too. Maybe not that different, really. Anyway, you have now firmly placed the thought of chili con carne and jacket potatoes in my mind. Must do something about that 

 

Yes.  My youngest still models, although he plays Warhammer, not railways.  He also makes board games, but I suppose I should not mention showermonkey.

 

So for pudding we had chocolate and pear sponge with chocolate sauce, or white chocolate sauce.  I suppose now I should go outside and check the ice axe and crampons.  

[MikeOxon]

12 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Well it is this son who gives the wise advice, 'Dad, make sure you finish something, before starting anything else.'

 

12 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

 

Here are all the parts, on my cutting mat with 1 mm squares.

 

 

I sincerely hope that those are 1 cm squares or you have some extremely short wheelbase bogies!  I am constantly amazed, however, by how the Silhouette can cut very small parts.  I find that using a 60° blade seems to do slightly better than the standard 45° in such cases.

 

Your son gives sound advice - you are not alone, however, in failing to follow it.  I occasionally survey my many buffer-less coupling-less, (sans teeth, sans eyes, sans everything) models  but never quite raise the impetus to get the jobs done.

 

Mike

[ChrisN]

58 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

 

 

I sincerely hope that those are 1 cm squares or you have some extremely short wheelbase bogies!  I am constantly amazed, however, by how the Silhouette can cut very small parts.  I find that using a 60° blade seems to do slightly better than the standard 45° in such cases.

 

Your son gives sound advice - you are not alone, however, in failing to follow it.  I occasionally survey my many buffer-less coupling-less, (sans teeth, sans eyes, sans everything) models  but never quite raise the impetus to get the jobs done.

 

Mike

 

Yes Mike,

Thank you, I have edited it.  That is what comes of posting late at night.

 

As I take on new projects it is like opening up another front.  The others are still there and get looked at but the time has to be shared around more.

[Mikkel]

19 hours ago, ChrisN said:

It would have to be Capt. Scott who was following a famous Scandinavian.  

 

Good choice. Much more panache than those robotic, well-prepared Norwegians. Nicked the best oil fields too, they did.

 

Thanks for the additional info on the bogies. I hope the re-draw will solve the problems. I haven't seen much difference with grouping/ungrouping in the cutting, but maybe I need to try again.

 

 

 

 

[Donw]

This thread is always a delight. Him tricky thing steps. I would imagine keep cambering up and down would make a long job of a train. I have more an imagine of someone going up on one carriage then walking along carriage to carriage with perhaps a lad handing up lamps to him. So it wouldn't matter if there were no steps on the saloon.

  Gas lamps! Gor don't know you lot soft you are we had to deal with them oil lamps.

 

One way you can do steps which can work in 7mm is to have the step bit go through a slit and be turned up inside and fixed.

 

 

Loco crew working could be done several ways. I think eningine men rather liked to keep to their 'own' engine but that was less efficient.

Where the run was to long for getting back the same day.  The crew could lodge for a night and work back the next day. However there were cases where the up and down trains stopped at intermediate stations and the crews would swap over the up crew would finish by taking the down trains back and vice versa. That would save the company the lodging allowance for 4 .

For a pick up goods the crew and engines could be swapped at some point. 

The company tried to avoid giving the crews a free ride 'on the cushions'  working one way and coming back as passengers.

 

Lovely modelling Chris

 

Don

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Donw said:

This thread is always a delight. Him tricky thing steps. I would imagine keep cambering up and down would make a long job of a train. I have more an imagine of someone going up on one carriage then walking along carriage to carriage with perhaps a lad handing up lamps to him. So it wouldn't matter if there were no steps on the saloon.

  Gas lamps! Gor don't know you lot soft you are we had to deal with them oil lamps.

 

One way you can do steps which can work in 7mm is to have the step bit go through a slit and be turned up inside and fixed.

 

 

Loco crew working could be done several ways. I think eningine men rather liked to keep to their 'own' engine but that was less efficient.

Where the run was to long for getting back the same day.  The crew could lodge for a night and work back the next day. However there were cases where the up and down trains stopped at intermediate stations and the crews would swap over the up crew would finish by taking the down trains back and vice versa. That would save the company the lodging allowance for 4 .

For a pick up goods the crew and engines could be swapped at some point. 

The company tried to avoid giving the crews a free ride 'on the cushions'  working one way and coming back as passengers.

 

Lovely modelling Chris

 

Don

 

Don,

Thank you for your kind words.  I have a recollection of someone saying that lamps were hauled up on chains or some such thing, so yes, it would be quite feasible for the saloon not to have steps.

 

I could think about cutting a slit.  That is the way that Shire Scenes steps are added, then all you need is a fake support on the outside.  The slits could be made on the cutter as well.

 

Your observations about crew are interesting.  The only unbalanced workings on the 1895 coast timetable, apart from the odd couple on Barmouth Junction to Dolgelley, are two Goods trains, one Machynlleth to Pwllheli, and one in the other direction.  However the one from Pwllhelli leaves before the other arrives and does not cross it at a suitable point.  In 1898, I have no information about 1895, Pwllheli has only two Albions rostered to it and no Small Goods.  This would mean it was a lodging turn unless one of the down passengers went back as a goods, and vice versa.  That would work, but it would mean that the Small Goods would take a passenger train on the return trip.  Now I know that the Cambrian often did this, but cannot remember if they put Albions on goods trains.  Will go and check.  All it means is that I will build more Small Goods than Albions.

 

[ChrisN]

Loco Rosters.  After Don's comments I have looked at the books and gleaned what I can.  I have seen Small Goods on passenger trains, but no Albions on goods Trains.  So it would make sense for the goods train loco from Machynlleth to return with a passenger train, and one passenger train loco from Machynlleth to return with a goods train.  That actually saves a loco, and a lodging turn so it would make the Cambrian accountants doubly happy.

 

Now there is a problem.  The BoT had insisted that all passenger trains had through braking.  Did the Small Goods Class have brakes?  (Now before 1900 only the Albions and Small Goods worked the regular traffic.  The information is sketchy, or rather than a sketch, is photographic.  I have found no list of when the Small Goods received vacuum brakes but I have a list of what they looked like in photographs at a given date.  Now there is no photograph of a Small Goods before 1895 with vacuum brakes, but there is only one photograph of a loco after 1895 without.  (Well, summer 1894 to be precise but it is a bit close really.)  Also, in 1901 in response to how much the new railway bill was going to cost the company, a reply came that they only had six locomotives that had no vacuum brakes.

 

So two of the three Machynlleth based locos will be Small Goods, the other an Albion.  There will be a small goods from Portmadoc, two Albions from Pwllheli, plus a Volunteer and a Seaham for the Dolgelley work.  (There will be a Small Bogie in place of one of the Albions being run as a test on the last train of the day, as I like those engines.)

 

Do not hold your breath to see these built as they will come after the coaches.

[NCB]

From 1911 Albions were used on the revamped Mawddwy branch. It's possible or even likely that that included goods trains (might also have been mixed trains). In principal can't see why they wouldn't work goods trains, although the 0-6-0s would have had higher tractive effort.

 

Re rosters, I believe the Cambrian matched crewe to engine, which meant some very long working days. Ahrons said he didn't know how they managed it.

 

Nigel

[ChrisN]

11 minutes ago, NCB said:

From 1911 Albions were used on the revamped Mawddwy branch. It's possible or even likely that that included goods trains (might also have been mixed trains). In principal can't see why they wouldn't work goods trains, although the 0-6-0s would have had higher tractive effort.

 

Re rosters, I believe the Cambrian matched crewe to engine, which meant some very long working days. Ahrons said he didn't know how they managed it.

 

Nigel

 

Nigel,

Thank you.  I seem to think the Mawddwy branch had mixed trains, but cannot remember why.

 

In 1894 Machynlleth had 2 Albions, 5 Small Goods, 1 Volunteer and 2 Beaconsfields.  I assume the Beaconsfields were for the main line.  Therefore I think it is a good bet that they used the Small Goods along the coast with the goods trains.  I could use a Volunteer, but I was going to use that on the Dolgelley branch, although I could use the Seaham tank for that.  The other reason I thought of the Small Goods was I have seen no photographs of Albions on goods trains.

 

Having said all that, I think in earlier years there may have been more mixed trains which would probably have involved the Albions, but I have only seen one image of a mixed train from 1870.  

 

As for working hours, the first Dolgelley train left at 7:05 and the last one got back at 19:40.  The first goods left Machnylleth at 6:25 and if that engine came bak onn the Mail train it arrived at 18:45.    I can post the whole timetable if people are interested.

 

Your information about matching crews to engines would preclude changing over half way, except I want to run the Small Bogie as a Special starting at Machynlleth, with a Pwllheli crew.