Arthur Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Posted before but here is my 'improved' Dublo Co-Bo, bogie side frames fretted out, Gibson Wheels, some cast detail ground off and replaces with etchings, flush glazed and some under frame detail added. I've recently bought some neomagnets which await fitting. The cast body was basic, no under frame detail at all, though it captured the look and proportions of them. It wasn't, originally, a big seller and, following the demise of Hornby Dublo, Hattons were selling them off for years. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thank God for that! Am I right in thinking it was very heavy due to a die cast body? Memories indeed. Best, Pete. Yes Pete - and they would pull the side off a house, incredibly powerful things if the one I had was any sort of guide. The originals were 'interesting' in a slightly weird sort of way - bit like an 'unusual' woman I suppose as they had a look all of their own, a sort of special something, and unlike just about every other sort of Modernisation Plan diesel but they were appallingly unreliable things right to the end of their days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 I was having weekly swimming lessons at the public baths at Reigate when these were a new Hornby product. Waiting for the 414 bus home, I would eye the model up in the shop window at La Trobe's by the clock tower. I never saw one in my spotting days, despite visiting my favourite aunt in Cricklewood, where they might have lurked, having a Condor moment. But did see the hulk in the research area at Derby, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I just like the way 'flood' is followed by 'lifeboatman' . Sorry, back to topic ! Yep... "Have rubber ring, will travel" has always been my motto, or is it "Ad praesens ova cras pullis sunt meliora"... I can never remember... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, that 'Condor Moment' was captured by Cuneo and featured in Dublo's advertising of the day, on the front of a catalogue IIRC. Their Metro Vic electrical equipment was well proven and reliable and I believe that they were finished to a high standard. They were let down by their Crossley two strokes which soon proved unsuited to rail service. The similarly equipped locomotives previously supplied to Ireland were just beginning to display the same problems, as the BR ones were entering service. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, that 'Condor Moment' was captured by Cuneo and featured in Dublo's advertising of the day, on the front of a catalogue IIRC. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60136-art-and-catalogues/ see post #22. I remember that one. I would only have been 5 or so... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 Posted before but here is my 'improved' Dublo Co-Bo, bogie side frames fretted out, Gibson Wheels, some cast detail ground off and replaces with etchings, flush glazed and some under frame detail added. I've recently bought some neomagnets which await fitting. image.jpg Perhaps BR should have considered fitting "neomagnets"! Ke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, that 'Condor Moment' was captured by Cuneo and featured in Dublo's advertising of the day, on the front of a catalogue IIRC. Their Metro Vic electrical equipment was well proven and reliable and I believe that they were finished to a high standard. They were let down by their Crossley two strokes which soon proved unsuited to rail service. The similarly equipped locomotives previously supplied to Ireland were just beginning to display the same problems, as the BR ones were entering service. Correct, all Irish MetroVicks had their Crossley engines replaced by GM 645 units in the early seventies but retained all their metro vick electrical equipment and generators. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, that 'Condor Moment' was captured by Cuneo and featured in Dublo's advertising of the day, on the front of a catalogue IIRC. Their Metro Vic electrical equipment was well proven and reliable and I believe that they were finished to a high standard. They were let down by their Crossley two strokes which soon proved unsuited to rail service. The similarly equipped locomotives previously supplied to Ireland were just beginning to display the same problems, as the BR ones were entering service. And the engine was similarly lack lustre in Australia I believe. Cuneo's original painting for the catalogue cover is now in the hands of Lord McAlpine and may be seen in his private railway museum, along with other Cuneo originals for catalogue use, on the odd occasions on which general public access is available. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Jason, I sympathise! My first diesel model was the Hornby-Dublo "Co-Bo', a Christmas present as soon as it came out. Die-cast body which was hollow, with no underframe at all (you wouldn't approve!). However, it had a decent chassis with the ringfield motor and ran and pulled well. I got rid of it years ago but then, back in the early days of Model Rail, I bought a replacement (at the open day at Ashford Works) and added an underframe. The new version from Heljan is a way better model, however. They were nicknamed 'Wonderloaves' after a widely available loaf of sliced white bread which had a similar shape. Unfortunately, the Crossley diesel engines gave lots of trouble and the locos were prone to erupt in flames. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted February 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2014 I remember having a Hornby Dublo one many years ago, it was very heavy but an excellent runner, IIRC. Perhaps they'd have sorted some of the S&D's heavy trains out good and proper, if they'd been a bit more reliable (and had been allocated to Bath Green Park..! ). Now, that's got me thinking.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 If Jason loves that, shall we see what happens if someone sneaks a pic of a Bulleid twin bogie design in front of him? Anything will do, Leader, one of the 'triplets', or that Raworth motor-generator device... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Perhaps they'd have sorted some of the S&D's heavy trains out good and proper, - (snip) ). Now, that's got me thinking.... Now that proves - you gotta have a sense of humour !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Correct, all Irish MetroVicks had their Crossley engines replaced by GM 645 units in the early seventies but retained all their metro vick electrical equipment and generators. I seem to recall reading, fairly recently, that BR considered re-engining them and Metropolitan Vickers told them that they were confident that the electrical equipment was good for service with an engine of 1500 hp (might have been more, there was a particular engine BR had in mind) the Crossleys being just 1200 hp. The Crossleys were developed as stationary engines, the vibration, shocks and continually variable power demands in rail service didn't suit them at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 It has always been the variable power cycle of rail use that has caused diesel engines problems, the cobo being one example, to which you can add the brush type 2. Unlike the brush, being only few in number they didn't bother re engining them, just scrapped them instead. Interesting fact, the crossley engines at full power had a lower rpm than the high speed engines used by the western region had at idle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2014 I always thought the Wondeloaf a close miss, I think these were rare as 2 strokes in the British diesel loco world (Deltics, yes, I know....) but were useless, compared to the incredible success of the GM 567 prime mover and it's successors (still...) - also being two stokes going against the 4 stroke flow. As for the 'look', they do have something, but I always feel sorry for them as they look so sad. Wrap around window version please Jason. Oh, and if not, you do know one was blue, don't you....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 ...The Crossleys were developed as stationary engines, the vibration, shocks and continually variable power demands in rail service didn't suit them at all. A very clever acquaintance of youth who went - most successfully - into gas turbine design once attempted to explain to me the underlying problem of this ingenious design in the rail application. It was a very simple engine in respect of moving parts reduction, with ported cylinders rather than valves and the exhaust pulses pressurising the cylinder charging. But to work reliably on power it had to run at as near constant speed as possible; which meant that the combined exhaust and inlet manifold system could function in a stable resonant band. As mentioned above it was the very variable power demand in rail as compared to stationary or marine applications that was the principal trouble. When the manifold system could not operate resonantly because engine speed was reducing or increasing, the engine was seriously out of balance as the cylinder charging, and thus power developed per cylinder, was varying continuously. Fractured (due to fatiguing) or bent connecting rods (one cylinder pretty much trying to move the rest of the engine) were the result of these imbalances on the engine, and the vibration it put into the rest of the loco ancilliaries didn't help at all. That was the launch pad for his true loves, the aero-thermodynamic duct and its second cousin the gas turbine; the latter of which he was quite sure would be powering all railway locomotives by now, for those routes on which electrification was not practical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2014 A very clever acquaintance of youth who went - most successfully - into gas turbine design once attempted to explain to me the underlying problem of this ingenious design in the rail application. It was a very simple engine in respect of moving parts reduction, with ported cylinders rather than valves and the exhaust pulses pressurising the cylinder charging. But to work reliably on power it had to run at as near constant speed as possible; which meant that the combined exhaust and inlet manifold system could function in a stable resonant band. As mentioned above it was the very variable power demand in rail as compared to stationary or marine applications that was the principal trouble. When the manifold system could not operate resonantly because engine speed was reducing or increasing, the engine was seriously out of balance as the cylinder charging, and thus power developed per cylinder, was varying continuously. Fractured (due to fatiguing) or bent connecting rods (one cylinder pretty much trying to move the rest of the engine) were the result of these imbalances on the engine, and the vibration it put into the rest of the loco ancilliaries didn't help at all. That was the launch pad for his true loves, the aero-thermodynamic duct and its second cousin the gas turbine; the latter of which he was quite sure would be powering all railway locomotives by now, for those routes on which electrification was not practical. Do you mean the sort of gas turbine which suffered from thermal stress and other problems related to an uneven power demand cycle in rail operation? Every railway which has tried gas turbines has usually got rid of them due to failure rates or (especially in high power demand applications) excessive fuel consumption. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 That'll be the one! Much better left reacting their way around the sky as experience has proved. But when you are young everything is possible. Where are the nuclear locos? Come to that why aren't the nuclear flask wagons self propelled by recycling all the magic moonbeams of their payload? Questions should be asked. It is interesting that rail was so fortuitously synergistic with steam power, thus getting mechanically powered transport underway. Even now with a hundred years development of the alternatives in rail power; when the lifetime cost is assessed, for low speed freight applications coal fired steam is nudging competitive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Today while perusing my latest issue of Rail magazine (I know they take a long time to show up in Canada) I came across a class of locomotive I never knew about before: There is something about this homely beast that speaks to my inner foamer. The mixed Co-Bo bogies are just the icing on a very delicious cake. I am completely smitten. It's a box on wheels. What amazes me is that a locomotive that ran for a decade over 40 years ago is actually preserved in the UK, and it speaks volumes about the wonderful preservation community in the UK. Next time you guys want to complain about your railway heritage, think about this: there are probably more classes of locomotive in Canada that have been completely scrapped than locomotive classes that have been preserved. the same is true of British designs too - at least in terms of steam locos. Pre-grouping companies tended to build small numbers of one particular design, then build a slightly improved (or sometimes, just different) version, and most of these got cleared out by the Big Four. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2014 If the class 28 C0-B0/B0-C0 is a box on wheels then surely a steam engine is a tube on wheels? Jason, have you met the Fell yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fell_locomotive An ugly beast full of charm if ever there was one! Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2014 Ah, but the Fell didn't get painted blue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidotrains Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 If the class 28 C0-B0/B0-C0 is a box on wheels then surely a steam engine is a tube on wheels? Jason, have you met the Fell yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fell_locomotive An ugly beast full of charm if ever there was one! Happy modelling. Steven B. Holy cow! Those spoked wheels are awesome. Streamlining hadn't caught on with diesels at that point, had it? It reminds me of CN 9000: http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/Various/early_diesels.htm Scroll down to 9000 and 9001. CN didn't properly dieselize until the early 1950s, and these beauties were delivered in 1928! -Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 It soon would though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_DP1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (especially in high power demand applications) excessive fuel consumption. At high powers, GT's are not bad. It's at low power ratios where they suck, badly, down the fuel tank. I know... If you load them up, then 30% n is possible. It's just that you need a lot of the airflow, and hence compressor losses, in order to keep the engine at idle. James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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