Sheffield Exchange, Toy trains, music and fun!

[Andrew P]

Oh dear Clive, what have you been up to now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-54888642

[Gibbo675]

2 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Oh dear Clive, what have you been up to now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-54888642

Hi Andy,

 

The photographs prove Clive correct in that the train is obviously P4 and one of the compensation units has become detached causing all that bother.

 

All that extra complication is unnecessary and OO gauge is obviously so much less hassle !

 

Gibbo.

[cheesysmith]

This is when they wish they had a Sheffield exchange, or even Victoria, to ease the pain of the closure, whilst sorting it out.

 

But as we all know on the MDTR , or even since the 80s, it is nice to have the slack to use in emergency's but on one wants to pay.

[woodenhead]

32 minutes ago, cheesysmith said:

This is when they wish they had a Sheffield exchange, or even Victoria, to ease the pain of the closure, whilst sorting it out.

 

But as we all know on the MDTR , or even since the 80s, it is nice to have the slack to use in emergency's but on one wants to pay.

I think its more than just a diversion within Sheffield - it is probably also having people sign other routes - Cross Country for example and Trans Pennine - the drivers will sign known diversionary routes but outside that they will need conductors - with Covid and probably reduced staffing across the network it's probably in the too difficult for the sake of 1-2 days bustitution given also the low numbers of actual passengers affected due to the lockdown.

[Northmoor]

31 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I think its more than just a diversion within Sheffield - it is probably also having people sign other routes - Cross Country for example and Trans Pennine - the drivers will sign known diversionary routes but outside that they will need conductors - with Covid and probably reduced staffing across the network it's probably in the too difficult for the sake of 1-2 days bustitution given also the low numbers of actual passengers affected due to the lockdown.

My objection is that the train will probably still be there in about four days.  If there was a can-do mentality, the loco would be allowed to draw the rest of the train clear, shunt back into the station under possession, collect the other wagons from the other end, re-couple them then proceed via an alternative route to the destination, with a profuse-apologies-that-your-cement-was-delayed.  The unaffected platforms would reopen by the evening rush hour and life would return to something like normal.  Unfortunately the operators are afraid their customers might see a derailed wagon and fear imminent death from setting foot on a train, so will close the railway entirely until all evidence has been removed.  Meanwhile thousands of people will commute by road instead and by the end of the week, a low single figure will be in hospital being treated for injuries received during road journeys they hadn't expected to be making.

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

My objection is that the train will probably still be there in about four days.  If there was a can-do mentality, the loco would be allowed to draw the rest of the train clear, shunt back into the station under possession, collect the other wagons from the other end, re-couple them then proceed via an alternative route to the destination, with a profuse-apologies-that-your-cement-was-delayed.  The unaffected platforms would reopen by the evening rush hour and life would return to something like normal.  Unfortunately the operators are afraid their customers might see a derailed wagon and fear imminent death from setting foot on a train, so will close the railway entirely until all evidence has been removed.  Meanwhile thousands of people will commute by road instead and by the end of the week, a low single figure will be in hospital being treated for injuries received during road journeys they hadn't expected to be making.

Or they'd get on with it like this - much more complicated than Sheffield and they kept all the other trains running.

 

[eastwestdivide]

On the other hand, accoridng to the BBC report, "...Network Rail said the derailment had led to significant damage to signalling and points equipment, which meant five of the station's eight platforms were closed"

Currently Norwich/Liverpool and Hope Valley stoppers are turning round in the bays at the south end, while TPE and XC are running through platform 8 under single line working and some St Pancras trains are running. Northern mostly turning round at Meadowhall, not sure what the Northern Nottingham services are doing.

Which isn't too bad under the circumstances.

Edited November 11, 2020 by eastwestdivide

[cheesysmith]

Just lucky it didn't cut the link between the Sheffield PSB (as was) and York ROC. The black hole in the signaling for the area would have been a disaster.

 

As for diversionary routes, it can be done. TPE crews sign via Huddersfield, so if it was still there Victoria and woodhead would be shorter and very useful about now.

[cheesysmith]

Just lucky it didn't cut the link between the Sheffield PSB (as was) and York ROC. The black hole in the signaling for the area would have been a disaster.

 

As for diversionary routes, it can be done. TPE crews sign via Huddersfield, so if it was still there Victoria and woodhead would be shorter and very useful about now.

 

As for modeling, has the chop shop guru thought of doing the experimental DEMU that as built from two LMS coaches that did actually run in the area under test?

[Clive Mortimore]

19 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Oh dear Clive, what have you been up to now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-54888642

Not me mate, I don't have freight trains at my station. It must be one of the lower mortals stations.

[Mulgabill]

Hi Clive, have been spending some time at the caravan, between lockdowns. The last visit even saw me hacking away at a triang Hornby mk1 underframe. Can't say any more 'cos I cant afford to contribute to your "swear" box.

 

But, I've been meaning to ask your advice for some while. On behalf of a friend, (well my brother who's a blue diesels type), you'll understand.

 

The query relates to early MK1 micro buffets. (OK I'm still with this), which apparently involved the conversions of one bay (compartment?) to form the buffet counter. On the corridor side there was a distinctive double handrail across the window. The question is what was done with the window on the other side? i.e. behind the counter.

Options would appear to be removal, plating over, or frosting the glass.

 

As you will understand this is all a bit modern for me, so I hope you can help.

 

All the best, and stay safe

 

TONY

 

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

Hi Clive, have been spending some time at the caravan, between lockdowns. The last visit even saw me hacking away at a triang Hornby mk1 underframe. Can't say any more 'cos I cant afford to contribute to your "swear" box.

 

But, I've been meaning to ask your advice for some while. On behalf of a friend, (well my brother who's a blue diesels type), you'll understand.

 

The query relates to early MK1 micro buffets. (OK I'm still with this), which apparently involved the conversions of one bay (compartment?) to form the buffet counter. On the corridor side there was a distinctive double handrail across the window. The question is what was done with the window on the other side? i.e. behind the counter.

Options would appear to be removal, plating over, or frosting the glass.

 

As you will understand this is all a bit modern for me, so I hope you can help.

 

All the best, and stay safe

 

TONY

 

Hi Tony

 

They are outside my period of modelling so I have tried to do some research. There are a few photos showing the "corridor" side. I have put corridor in inverted commas as they were converted from BSOs.  The other side, the buffet counter and trolley store had the widow covered below the sliding ventilators with what looks like plywood form a photo in the Parkin Mk1 book. There appears no change to the toilet window. The toilet being converted into a store, it retained its sink for the Travelers Fare staff to ash their hands. The few photos I have found of these showing the buffet side are at an angle where I can see the window is glazed but what is behind it I do not know.

 

Does anyone else know what they done with the buffet window? Was the plywood panel just painted rail grey?

[Alex TM]

Hi Clive and Tony,

 

Try this link for photos of both sides:

 

Hope it gives you what you're looking for.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

[w124bob]

Thread running here on the MK2 conversions, I've included pictures of my and Hornby MK1& Bachmann Mk2 BSOT conversions. 

 

[Signaller69]

Hi Clive,

Another Mk.1 related question if I may, for those who have made plasticard coach sides to the Mk.1 profile, To fit a Triang/Hornby donor coach.

 

How did you achieve the curved profile? Laminating? And if so what did you use to form the tumblehome)

 

I ask as I am contemplating a TPO vehicle as an experiment. (Due to the lack of large windows!)

 

Regards,

Martyn.

[Clive Mortimore]

I have been running trains and modelling, might do some more modelling and even take some photos soon.

 

I came across this band the other night, today You Tube suggested their new song

 

 

 

[LNER4479]

Hi Clive,

 

May I interrupt your fun for a moment and seek your advice over something I know not much about?

 

For reasons that I can't remember, I have for some time had the pictured kit in my possession. Now although I am a hopeless chuffer nutter and my 'grand plan' is set firmly in the 1950s steam era, I am not so prejudiced as to exclude a few items of 'modern image' (as it was at the time) where historically justified.

 

Recent research has revealed that some of the first Derby lightweight DMUs were indeed sent to Cumbria (or Cumberland, as it was known at the time) and there is photographic evidence of them in an around the station working eg the services out to Workington. So, given that I have it in stock, I rather fancy a go at making it, in original guise (with whiskers, etc).

 

The destructions aren't too explicit; they just refer to a Lima donor DMU - but doesn't say which one? So, I seek your advice, as follows:

 

Is building it around a Lima donor DMU still a good idea? And if so, what item should I be on the look out for?

 

If NOT, then what is the best approach? I don't mind doing a bit of scratchbuilding but there's an awful lot of alien (to me) undergubbins on a DMU, particularly the power car, so some help with that will probably be required.

 

(I am aware, from a little bit of googling, that there is now a RTR Derby lightweight. So don't some smartar$e say 'why not buy one?' ...)

 

Whilst I'm on, the other DMU 'project' that's caught my eye is a 4-car Met-cam unit with the additional buffet car in for the Newcastle services. I think I'm right in saying that only 6 of them buffet cars were built. What I do know is that one survives (despite several close calls) and we had a ride on it at the GCR a few years ago although I think it has moved on now, which is what first attracted me to the idea. Again - what are the options for recreating one of these sets, in original 1957 condition.

 

Many thanks, in anticipation.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by LNER4479

[cheesysmith]

I think for the DMU to use, find the lima suburban long DMU, and will need cutting to shorten it, as this has more of the derby DMU body shape then the later 101 which has a mk1 body shape. The underframe will need totally changing for these DMU, look for Heljan spares for the  2 wheel railbus they make, will give parts like engine heads and exhausts.

[cheesysmith]

A EMU question.

 

We can see the evolution of the mk1 based AC EMU cab from the 307, which is just a SR cab, to the 302, which the centre section was made smaller with the two tapered sides larger to allow bigger cab windows, to the final version with the upper section angled inwards.

 

My question is to the cab side windows. The SR DC EMUs had different sized windows in either side, which, if any, AC EMUs had this feature? Just need to know how much of the replica cab will be of use when chopping coaches up.

[Gibbo675]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Hi Clive,

 

May I interrupt your fun for a moment and seek your advice over something I know not much about?

 

For reasons that I can't remember, I have for some time had the pictured kit in my possession. Now although I am a hopeless chuffer nutter and my 'grand plan' is set firmly in the 1950s steam era, I am not so prejudiced as to exclude a few items of 'modern image' (as it was at the time) where historically justified.

 

Recent research has revealed that some of the first Derby lightweight DMUs were indeed sent to Cumbria (or Cumberland, as it was known at the time) and there is photographic evidence of them in an around the station working eg the services out to Workington. So, given that I have it in stock, I rather fancy a go at making it, in original guise (with whiskers, etc).

 

The destructions aren't too explicit; they just refer to a Lima donor DMU - but doesn't say which one? So, I seek your advice, as follows:

 

Is building it around a Lima donor DMU still a good idea? And if so, what item should I be on the look out for?

 

If NOT, then what is the best approach? I don't mind doing a bit of scratchbuilding but there's an awful lot of alien (to me) undergubbins on a DMU, particularly the power car, so some help with that will probably be required.

 

(I am aware, from a little bit of googling, that there is now a RTR Derby lightweight. So don't some smartar$e say 'why not buy one?' ...)

 

Whilst I'm on, the other DMU 'project' that's caught my eye is a 4-car Met-cam unit with the additional buffet car in for the Newcastle services. I think I'm right in saying that only 6 of them buffet cars were built. What I do know is that one survives (despite several close calls) and we had a ride on it at the GCR a few years ago although I think it has moved on now, which is what first attracted me to the idea. Again - what are the options for recreating one of these sets, in original 1957 condition.

 

Many thanks, in anticipation.

 

 

Hi There,

 

This might be useful:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/derby-lightweight/

 

The undergubbins are easy enough to scratch build should you use either Lima Mett-Camm or Hornby 110 DMU bogies.

 

Home made juxtaposed with DC Kits supplied bits for Craven 105 units.

 

Gibbo.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Gibbo675
Additional photograph.

[Clive Mortimore]

34 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Hi Clive,

 

May I interrupt your fun for a moment and seek your advice over something I know not much about?

 

For reasons that I can't remember, I have for some time had the attached kit in my possession. Now although I am a hopeless chuffer nutter and my 'grand plan' is set firmly in the 1950s steam era, I am not so prejudiced as to exclude a few items of 'modern image' (as it was at the time) where historically justified.

 

Recent research has revealed that some of the first Derby lightweight DMUs were indeed sent to Cumbria (or Cumberland, as it was known at the time) and there is photographic evidence of them in an around the station working eg the services out to Workington. So, given that I have it in stock, I rather fancy a go at making it, in original guise (with whiskers, etc).

 

The destructions aren't to explicit; they just refer to a Lima donor DMU - but doesn't say which one? So, I seek you advice, as follows:

 

Is building it around a Lima donor DMU still a good idea? And if so, what item should I be on the look out for?

 

If NOT, then what is the best approach? I don't mind doing a bit of scratchbuilding but there's an awful lot of alien (to me) undergubbins on a DMU, particularly the power car, so some help with that will probably be required.

 

(I am aware, from a little bit of googling, that there is now a RTR Derby lightweight. So don't some smartar$e say 'why not buy one?' ...)

 

Whilst I'm on, the other DMU 'project' that's caught my eye is a 4-car Met-cam unit with the additional buffet car in for the Newcastle services. I think I'm right in saying that only 6 of them buffet cars were built. What I do know is that one survives (despite several close calls) and we had a ride on it at the GCR a few years ago although I think it has moved on now) which is what first attracted me to the idea. Again - what are the options for recreating one of these sets, in original 1957 condition.

 

Many thanks, in anticipation.

 

 

Hi Graham

 

It looks like a Craftsman kit. As Cheesy has already mentioned the DMU the kit was designed to fit is the Lima class 117 suburban unit cut down to length. Do the instructions  say where to cut the under gubbins so you get the best result from the Lima engines etc? From memory the BRCW 104 kit I had (and never made) did tell you where to cut.

 

With your experience in coach building you might be able to skip the part of using a Lima body to wrap the etches around. Then bung it on a suitable 57 ft DMU underframe, best would be a Bachmann Derby one (both types), or even Cravens would pass. Met-Cam units have their battery boxes in the wrong place and the Hornby Calder Valley unit has the wrong type of engine (not that I take any notice of that).

 

You can always go down the build your own bits that dangle under a DMU as Gibbo has suggested.

 

I will take some photos of the 4 car Met-Cam unit I am making and post them later.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Graham

 

The NER was the only region to have 4 car Met-Cams, most were DMC/TS/TSB/DMC, there was a small batch that was DMC/TS/TS/DMBS.

 

The Buffet Cars as far as I can understand were additional coaches and not part of a set when delivered. They could be added to a 4 car set  with one of the TSs removed or added to a 3 car set making it a 4 car set. I have even seen photos of them in between a pair of power twins making a 3 car set.

 

The easiest way to make a Met-Cam buffet set would be to acquire a Lima or Hornby 3 car set and an extra center car. This would be a DMC/TRB/TS/DMBS formation, which could be a 4 car less one of its TS or an augmented 3 car. As long as you have the right numbers for the type of coach it doesn't matter too much if they are from 2, 3 or 4 car units the NER was quite good at mixing things up, to the point by the mid 60s there could be 3 different manufacturers coaches in the same 4 car unit.  

 

DMBS

 

TC from a 3 car unit,  a TS had the body just different seating.

Trailer Buffet, I have got as far as removing the sliding vents off the windows, they still need to be painted green to represent the blank panels behind the counter.

DMC

 

Me being me my buffet is in a formation with a trailer second brake which there is no RTR model of.

TBS, the brake end needs to be removed from a DMBS and the non toilet end off a TS or TC. The brake end is then added to the long bit of the TS body. This one is powered to hide the motor in the brake van.  I cannot recall why there are two cut lines but some how I ended up with a DMC from the DMBS the van came from.  No idea what I done with the other parts of a coach as this looks like I used three coaches.

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

A EMU question.

 

We can see the evolution of the mk1 based AC EMU cab from the 307, which is just a SR cab, to the 302, which the centre section was made smaller with the two tapered sides larger to allow bigger cab windows, to the final version with the upper section angled inwards.

 

My question is to the cab side windows. The SR DC EMUs had different sized windows in either side, which, if any, AC EMUs had this feature? Just need to know how much of the replica cab will be of use when chopping coaches up.

Hi Cheesy

 

I don't know, I never noticed if they were smaller on one side than the other when they were in service. The BR diagrams show the Class 304 and the Bury 3rd rail cabside windows to be different to the 305s and 308s. It looks like a trawl through the photos, I am sure I will be able to find a one with a 305 cab to cab with another 305.

[Signaller69]

4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Hi Clive,

 

May I interrupt your fun for a moment and seek your advice over something I know not much about?

 

For reasons that I can't remember, I have for some time had the pictured kit in my possession. Now although I am a hopeless chuffer nutter and my 'grand plan' is set firmly in the 1950s steam era, I am not so prejudiced as to exclude a few items of 'modern image' (as it was at the time) where historically justified.

 

Recent research has revealed that some of the first Derby lightweight DMUs were indeed sent to Cumbria (or Cumberland, as it was known at the time) and there is photographic evidence of them in an around the station working eg the services out to Workington. So, given that I have it in stock, I rather fancy a go at making it, in original guise (with whiskers, etc).

 

The destructions aren't too explicit; they just refer to a Lima donor DMU - but doesn't say which one? So, I seek your advice, as follows:

 

Is building it around a Lima donor DMU still a good idea? And if so, what item should I be on the look out for?

 

If NOT, then what is the best approach? I don't mind doing a bit of scratchbuilding but there's an awful lot of alien (to me) undergubbins on a DMU, particularly the power car, so some help with that will probably be required.

 

(I am aware, from a little bit of googling, that there is now a RTR Derby lightweight. So don't some smartar$e say 'why not buy one?' ...)

 

Whilst I'm on, the other DMU 'project' that's caught my eye is a 4-car Met-cam unit with the additional buffet car in for the Newcastle services. I think I'm right in saying that only 6 of them buffet cars were built. What I do know is that one survives (despite several close calls) and we had a ride on it at the GCR a few years ago although I think it has moved on now, which is what first attracted me to the idea. Again - what are the options for recreating one of these sets, in original 1957 condition.

 

Many thanks, in anticipation.

 

 

I did a Craftsman Class 120 3 car unit for a friend very many years ago, of course the recommended Lima 117 donor chassis were the right length for that unit. But the boxy underframes are quite easy to strengthen if you cut them in the right areas, even if some of the details are modified as Clive and Gibbo have suggested.

 

I have a dilemma currently with this set of Worsley Class 100 scratchaid etches, which I studied again earlier; I have a Hornby 110 unit as a donor, but the 100 body profile (sides and ends) is different in length (about  4mm longer) and profile to the 110 bodies. I have a pair of Craftsman class 104 cab roofs which might work with the etches, so I'm thinking now of soldering the body up (with the cab roofs), and using suitable plastic roofs to complete the bodies, before attaching them to the Hornby 110 chassis (suitably modified). I still need to form the lower body edge turnunder on all 4 etched sides which has been the main stumbling block so far, but it will happen eventually.

 

Good luck with your build.

[Clive Mortimore]

Been mudelling earlier today, there might be photos later.

 

Isn't Aby's drumming wonderful.