Pre grouping RTR

[billbedford]

Are you missing the coming GER Claude, LNWR Coal tank, GNR C1, LSWR Adams radial +. Beattie 2-4-0T?  Mostly needing repaints though.

 

drduncan was quoting this post which was made before the coal tank, atlantic, and radial were announced. The claude, in the form modelled, is a post groping design.

[ThePurplePrimer]

Hi Guys

 

I am interested in LSWR in 4mm scale and wondered what locos were available

 

I see that Kernow do a Beattie well tank but understand its a rebuilt one - can it be backdated do you think - I am new to this so have no idea what changes wer made

 

What about Hornbys M7 ?

 

Then the T9 and 700 ?

 

Is it as 'simple' as repainting them ?

[Nick Holliday]

Hi Guys

I am interested in LSWR in 4mm scale and wondered what locos were available

I see that Kernow do a Beattie well tank but understand its a rebuilt one - can it be backdated do you think - I am new to this so have no idea what changes wer made

What about Hornbys M7 ?

Then the T9 and 700 ?

Is it as 'simple' as repainting them ?

Regarding the well tank, the 1935 rebuilding didn't greatly change their appearance from around 1905 or so, when they were fitted with cabs. The main visual changes are the Drummond chimney and dome, replacing Adams' stovepipe chimney, and the fitting of a steel front buffer beam, replacing the thicker timber one. Suitable fittings might be available from Gibson's.

The M7 is definitely a suitable one for repainting, as will the forthcoming O2 and Adams radial, although avoid the pull-push fitted ones.

Not such good news for theT9 and 700. The models represent the superheated ones, and this work was only tackled late in the history of the LSWR, 1922 for the first T9 and one 700 was so fitted in 1920, with others following in 1922. I've a feeling that the LSWR boiler was slightly different from the later SR. Maunsell type they later received, and the arrangement of sandboxes on the T9 needs to be considered, as the SR. removed them from the splashes of the narrow cab ones, and I don't know which version Horrnby has chosen to model

[brian777999]

Could the Hornby County class 4-4-0 be produced in the pre-grouping GWR livery with red frames or would the model in its existing form require substantial modification to be accurate for the earlier period ?

[Miss Prism]

Could the Hornby County class 4-4-0 be produced in the pre-grouping GWR livery with red frames or would the model in its existing form require substantial modification to be accurate for the earlier period ?

 

You'd need to rebuild the footplate at the front and the rear, raise the cylinders, redo the boiler, and get a new tender, chimney and safety valve.

[BlueLightning]

I've just had a quick look through this thread and seen many people mention a lack of carriage stock however I haven't seen these mentioned. Some nice R-T-R LB&SCR Stroudley 4-wheelers. Although they need a paint job once that is done paired with a Hornby Terrier they make a nice pre-grouping R-T-R train. (Although they are not perfect they are close enough for me).

 

They are from Bachmann USA's Thomas and Friends range however they match up to 4mm scale and have standard hook and Loop couplings which are the same size as those fitted to the terrier. I got mine from Tower Hobbies (no connection, other shops are available) here:

 

Tower Hobbies Bachmann Thomas red coach

 

Tower Hobbies Bachmann Thomas red brake coach

 

They were well worth what I paid for them and I have attached some pictures below showing them after painting. All I did was add steps and lamp irons to the brake ends and pipes all along the rake.

 

 

 

 

Hope someone finds this useful,

 

Gary

[rue_d_etropal]

I had assumed these were just versions of thw Annie/Clarabell coaches but they are different and better.Pity Hornby still have Thomas license here but Tootally Thomas have them imported. Ordered a couple myself.

[Synch]

They're very basic versions of Stroudley coaches, the originals in the series were made from Tenmille kits like the majority of their rolling stock (the express coaches were Maunsells without end details and Lynton and Barnstaple bogeys!)

[Andy Hayter]

Just a heads up that Dapol have a rectank in PO livery and registered to the GCR.

 

I have used the Hattons page because this gives a fairly good view of the product.

 

Not sure of the authenticity but first glances suggests it might be a reasonable representation.

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/SiteResults.aspx?searchfield=Yorkshire Lincolnshire

[BlueLightning]

I had assumed these were just versions of thw Annie/Clarabell coaches but they are different and better.Pity Hornby still have Thomas license here but Tootally Thomas have them imported. Ordered a couple myself.

 

I had forgotten about Tootally Thomas, I did look at them when I ordered mine but it was actually cheaper to buy from the states and have them shipped over here (this may have changed). They also arrived in about a week so all in all not a bad service

 

Gary

[BlueLightning]

They're very basic versions of Stroudley coaches, the originals in the series were made from Tenmille kits like the majority of their rolling stock (the express coaches were Maunsells without end details and Lynton and Barnstaple bogeys!)

 

I never knew the TV series models were based on Stroudley's. Having never seen a Tenmille Stroudley and a google search not producing any pictures I assume they were modified from the kits to have the break ends removed?

 

Gary

[rue_d_etropal]

The original TV series used Gauge One  kits from Tenmille models, so they were based on real prototypes , not sure which though.  Looking at their website and I range is different now as most of their old kits were vac formed I believe. Marklin Gauge One locos/chassis were also used, so it is possible some coaches were based on Marklin ones.

 

I rarely buy fromthe USA now as customs costs can be high, unless you are lucky. Noticed they were out of stock on USA site which is why I looked at Tootally Thomas which had them in stock. Even checked ebay and none found from other UK based dealers.

[BlueLightning]

I rarely buy fromthe USA now as customs costs can be high, unless you are lucky.

 

I must have been lucky as I didn't have to pay anything to customs. Although I did expect it, but at the time the pound was in a better position and the carriages + postage were about half what Tootally Thomas were charging. I also checked eBay at the time and couldn't see any.

 

Gary

[Andy Hayter]

The original TV series used Gauge One  kits from Tenmille models, so they were based on real prototypes , not sure which though.  Looking at their website and I range is different now as most of their old kits were vac formed I believe. Marklin Gauge One locos/chassis were also used, so it is possible some coaches were based on Marklin ones.

 

I rarely buy fromthe USA now as customs costs can be high, unless you are lucky. Noticed they were out of stock on USA site which is why I looked at Tootally Thomas which had them in stock. Even checked ebay and none found from other UK based dealers.

A trick that sometimes works with the UK customs is to ask if your supplier in the States can also sell you a magazine. If the customs charges are going to be relatively small it seems HMRC cannot always be bothered to work out the VAT on a mixed rate package.

[Edwardian]

I've just had a quick look through this thread and seen many people mention a lack of carriage stock however I haven't seen these mentioned. Some nice R-T-R LB&SCR Stroudley 4-wheelers. Although they need a paint job once that is done paired with a Hornby Terrier they make a nice pre-grouping R-T-R train. (Although they are not perfect they are close enough for me).

 

They are from Bachmann USA's Thomas and Friends range however they match up to 4mm scale and have standard hook and Loop couplings which are the same size as those fitted to the terrier. I got mine from Tower Hobbies (no connection, other shops are available) here:

 

Tower Hobbies Bachmann Thomas red coach

 

Tower Hobbies Bachmann Thomas red brake coach

 

They were well worth what I paid for them and I have attached some pictures below showing them after painting. All I did was add steps and lamp irons to the brake ends and pipes all along the rake.

 

4wheel1.jpg

 

4wheel2.jpg

 

hailsham4wheel.jpg

 

Hope someone finds this useful,

 

Gary

 

Well, Gary, I find it useful. And inspirational.

 

These are, perhaps, the modern day equivalent of the venerable Triang clerestories; they are well-moulded, capture the essence of the prototype and are ripe for adaption.

 

Many people, for instance, re-bogie and paint up the Triangs with little or no surgery and run them as very convincing GW clerestories.  On the other hand, there is a fine tradition of hacking them into LSWR/IOW coaches.

 

Having just hacked up 3 Triangs to make 2 GW Brake Thirds, all I can say it requires a lot of surgery to match a GW diagram!  But, a paint job and you have the essence of a GW clerestory, without any surgery.

 

Something similar might be true in relation to these Thomas coaches.  They are clearly Stroudley inspired and capture the characteristics of these coaches.  As you use them, without butchery, they really look the part.

 

Just as in the past I have feverishly flicked through Russell and Weddell bools on GW and LSWR coaches, with a Triang clerestory in one hand, trying to match the moulded panels to the drawings, I itch to do something similar with these 4-wheelers and the LB&SCR 4 and 6-wheel carriage volumes.

 

I wonder, will they equate to any particular diagram?  For instance, the merest glance through the book suggests that your non-brake coach might represent a  D30 all First.

 

Originally the Stroudley duckets protruded quite far and were sheeted. Later the width was reduced and theywere panelled.  I'd love to see how Bachmann's compare with the drawings.  What wonderful cut and shut possibilities there might be!

[BlueLightning]

Your right James, with some butchery these could be quite prototypical carriages. I could take some pictures with a ruler so you can get compartment measurements etc later if you want.

 

I have some old RM's for converting the Tri-ang clerestories to LB&SCR and SE&CR types the only problem I have is getting a hold of the carriages as I don't really want to pay more than a tenner each due to how many I need. I have some plans to convert some into SER 6 wheelers for my P Class to pull.

 

Gary

[Compound2632]

the only problem I have is getting a hold of the carriages as I don't really want to pay more than a tenner each due to how many I need.

 

Look out for ones in pseudo-LNER teak - these are of relatively recent manufacture (2007-10) and can often be found quite cheaply as they were sold in train sets with the old B12 or the J83 - I've had them for £7 - £8 from a local second-hand specialist. They also have the advantages that the plastic is easier to work with than the 1970s material and the LNER decals can be removed with acetone (nail varnish remover etc.).

[Edwardian]

Your right James, with some butchery these could be quite prototypical carriages. I could take some pictures with a ruler so you can get compartment measurements etc later if you want.

 

I have some old RM's for converting the Tri-ang clerestories to LB&SCR and SE&CR types the only problem I have is getting a hold of the carriages as I don't really want to pay more than a tenner each due to how many I need. I have some plans to convert some into SER 6 wheelers for my P Class to pull.

 

Gary

 

Sent you a PM

[Edwardian]

Look out for ones in pseudo-LNER teak - these are of relatively recent manufacture (2007-10) and can often be found quite cheaply as they were sold in train sets with the old B12 or the J83 - I've had them for £7 - £8 from a local second-hand specialist. They also have the advantages that the plastic is easier to work with than the 1970s material and the LNER decals can be removed with acetone (nail varnish remover etc.).

 

Agree, I wish I had more of these.  The 1970s plastic is very brittle, like working with Bakerlite!

[Londontram]

Agree, I wish I had more of these.  The 1970s plastic is very brittle, like working with Bakerlite!

I must have chopped up about twenty of the 1970s ones and still have a load more and have never had a problem with the plastic, I try and usually succeed in not paying any more than £5 a time for them just be patient they do turn up quite often at car boots, secondhand shops and in the under the table boxes at railway shows, I brought four at a model railway show for a tenner once, the trick is to buy as you see them and not as you need or want them. Mine get chopped into Caledonian six wheel and bogie coaches.

[Poggy1165]

Just a heads up that Dapol have a rectank in PO livery and registered to the GCR.

 

I have used the Hattons page because this gives a fairly good view of the product.

 

Not sure of the authenticity but first glances suggests it might be a reasonable representation.

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/SiteResults.aspx?searchfield=Yorkshire Lincolnshire

 

To be picky, I think the number is wrong for a red tank. The frames should also be (mainly) red.

 

Here is a rather lovely 7mm scale version of the wagon in question.

 

There are some prototype details in the HMRS book on tank wagons. This company's wagons came in various lengths and some were black. I'm not sure of the detail as book isn't to hand, but anyone fussy can check this source.

[wagonman]

Just a heads up that Dapol have a rectank in PO livery and registered to the GCR.

 

I have used the Hattons page because this gives a fairly good view of the product.

 

Not sure of the authenticity but first glances suggests it might be a reasonable representation.

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/SiteResults.aspx?searchfield=Yorkshire Lincolnshire

 

 

Just a matter of terminology, but please don't call a rectangular tar tank wagon a 'rectank' as that was an entirely different beast: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brrectanks

[Caley Jim]

Just a matter of terminology, but please don't call a rectangular tar tank wagon a 'rectank' as that was an entirely different beast: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brrectanks

Yes, that confused me too.  I couldn't think why a Rectank should be in PO livery and when I followed the link all I seemed to get were buses!  It was only when i saw Poggy's post and then scrolled down the Hattons page that i realised what we were talking about.

 

Jim

[Andy Hayter]

My abject apologies.

 

Also for some unknown reason, my link somehow dropped Lincolnshire from the link* when posted across. With both Yorkshire and Lincolnshire in the link parameters you get just 2 choices

 

* The word is still there but not included within the link itself - very strange.

[rue_d_etropal]

Andy, when it comes to imports, I have usually been lucky, but on ebay there is a facility to pay up front, but preiously it was said that it could depend on route into the country. Recently I have noticed postal cost has gone up a lot, which is something else that has reduced what I buy direct.

 

Just received my coaches from Tootally Thomas. The pity with this range is the packaging, as it would be easier if it was in a box, but then it is meant for toy market. Having said that  have noticed , more paper based packaging especially for electonics goods, as it is easier to recycle. This type of hard, almost shrink wrapped packaging will be on the list to get banned soon, given the way things are going.

I have a few of the old Hornby(and Triang) clerestory coaches, all re painted, including I think some which wre the blood and custard ones sold with the B12 loco. I think the set was done for Argus store, and it flooded the mrket when it was sold off at a discount. The other coach to look out for is the 6 wheeler in the Bachmann Thomas range. Pity it is only really a compartment one, not a proper brake like the red coach, but it has potential. I have had on for a while. Clearly the middle wheel is not flanged so it goes round sharp curves easily.

 

Given that Hornby have done their own short 4 wheel coach in various liveries It is a pity the old bogie clerestory could not be done in a few pre-group liveries. Talking of short coaches, Hornby did do a longer 2 axle coach in one of their other Thomas toy ranges, I remember coming across one, and was going to use it, but must have either 'stored' it somewhere or sold it on.

There was also the short yellow balcony coach produced in Triang Hornby days, not forgetting the Davy Crockett coach. The Davy Crckett coach is same length as the old clerestory so roof can be swapped over, as far as I remember. I have a DC coach so will check.

Talking of Wild West models, Lima did a range of Western Express , with a long wheel based 4 wheel coach, centre doors with clerestory roof. I aquired a few as I was thinking of an early electric railway. Worh while looking on ebay, but not always desribed correctly.