brossard Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) This topic has come up several times and I did review several of them. I thought I'd share my efforts which are to upgrade the LMS and GWR vans in 00. This is for a friend. My starting point was a pair that had been severely knocked about. I started off trying to salvage the underframes but it quickly became apparent that they were useless. My reference is Historic Carriage Drawings, Vol 3, NPCs by Peter Tatlow, LMS Coaches by Essery & Jenkinson and LMS Journal 31. I was annoyed to find that these vans, typical of Hornby in the bad ol' Margate era, are 4mm too short. I had planned ahead and obtained some Comet W-irons and castings. I had to scratch build the underframes from plastic sheet and strip including 3.5mm channel. After assembling the W-irons and underframes I had this: The center axle is a sliding arrangement using 2mm brass tube and 1mm steel rod. I used Bachmann wheels but thinned the wheels on the center axle to 2.3mm (was 2.7mm) to ensure easy passage through points. The underframe does negotiate a small Peco point. Continuing with the build, I made steps and completed the W-irons: Now the question I have is about the GWR van. Being principally interested in LMS, my library is a bit thin when it comes to other railways. There is one photo in Tatlow and from that I sussed that there are no brakes on the center wheels. I'm also aware that buffers, J hangers and axleboxes are different. I think I can cobble up something to get a reasonable representation of these. So, I'm wondering if there are any pictures of the GWR van. In previous threads on this topic, there were no pictures but perhaps I'll get lucky. John Edited October 7, 2019 by brossard 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Can't help with the GW van John but I'll follow this with interest, I've a couple of the crimson versions lying around myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Righto Arthur, I will attempt all and sundry entertained. Seems to me that these vans are quite popular and a kit would not come amiss. I wish someone would do the transfer set. John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) Just in time, Steam Days October 2014 issue has an article on the Palethorpes vans, including the only photo I have seen of a Western one in BR livery. Merf. Edited September 29, 2014 by Merfyn Jones Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Thanks Merf, must see if I can get that. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted September 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2014 There's a photo and diagram in Russell 'A Pictorial Record of Great Western Coaches' part 2 p.227. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Righto Arthur, I will attempt all and sundry entertained. Seems to me that these vans are quite popular and a kit would not come amiss. I wish someone would do the transfer set. John W&T produced a kit with pre printed litho sides in 4mm for both the LMS and GWR vans with correct castings for both underframes. They often come up on eBay for about £10. There is a W&T LMS milk van using the same construction style on eBay at the moment. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390938424642?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Mike Wiltshire Google image of one of the two GWR vans here http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Palethorpes_Van_(8270864840).jpg Images of my W&T kit build here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76210-Hornby-palethorpes-6-wheel-vans/ Edited September 30, 2014 by Coach bogie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks for the pictures Mike. They will be helpful. I wasn't aware of the kit and must keep a weather eye open. I don't have Russell, Bishop, but my friend might so I'll see if I can chase down that reference. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I was annoyed to find that these vans, typical of Hornby in the bad ol' Margate era, are 4mm too short. I bought one of these when they first came out and was disappointed to find it was the wrong length. While I could appreciate that the one moulding was representing (at that time) two slightly differently detailed (though both the same length) vans, the length difference is so small it surely couldn't have made any serious difference to the performance even on sharp curves. Given it was all-new why do it wrong? A shame as the door detail is pretty good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) I've been busy detailing the underframes and thought I'd provide a report. A fair bit of work left to do. This is the LMS underframe. I installed the Comet axleboxes but didn't like the springs. I have a "loaf" of springs made earlier from plastic strip and these can be sliced off using my NWSL Chopper. I'll add these towards the end. The brake gear is rigged. This is a bit more involved due to there being brakes on all 6 wheels. I used the arrangement from a works drawing in LMS Journal 31. I've only represented the brake rods to the center and RH axles brakes. In reality they were linked at the yokes. For the LH brakes, there's a reversing gubbins that lets the single crank operate the brakes. The position of the dynamo is inferred from the pictures I have. The GWR underframe is very different. I got axleboxes that resemble those on the van in my picture from a Bachmann wagon. Thanks again to Mike for his picture of the kit underframe. This was very helpful in getting a sense of where things went. The brake rigging is relatively straightforward being a double acting crank acting on the outer axle brakes. Handbrake is on GWR fashion on the end of the van. I noticed a Vee hanger has gone ahoo. John Edited October 7, 2019 by brossard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Over the past few days I've been working on these on and off. I've just about finished so here's the results: LMS underframe: GWR underframe: The big challenge here was to make the GWR pattern J hangers. I used scrap brass and cobbled up jig. There were false starts and do overs but I got there. I expect someone will now tell me who makes them. A few things left to do such as battery boxes and van end brackets. The reinforcing bar needs adding the GWR u/f. This is a lot of work but I don't see any getting around the need to replace the Hornby underframe. In hindsight, a better approach might have been to use the Comet Stove R underframe, bearing in mind that the Hornby van is 4mm short. John Edited October 7, 2019 by brossard 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I'm only surprised that "Captain Kernow" hasn't popped in here, given his love of sausages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Yes, I'm on tenterhooks to see the next installment of Horst von Arschenbam's adventures. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks for the pictures Mike. They will be helpful. I wasn't aware of the kit and must keep a weather eye open. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KIT-BUILT-DIE-CAST-PALETHORPES-6W-VAN-SPARES-REPAIR-/111482917106?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item19f4e650f2 Mike Wiltshire 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks for the link Mike. To my eye the printed sides are no better than the Hornby ones. At least Hornby gave us the hinge detail, even if it's in the wrong place for the GWR van. The van body could be scratchbuilt I think. The thing that makes that a non-starter is the lettering. It did cross my mind to make transfers but that's as far as I got. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) I brought it all together today - quite exciting: The body is a bit of a let down, but my friend will weather it and that should hide many of the sins. Note the reinforcing bars between axleboxes, battery boxes and footsteps. I put a footstep on each side but I don't know if that is right, having only a picture of one side. I'm quite happy with the way this has turned out. Anyone else done this I wonder? John Edited October 7, 2019 by brossard 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
46256 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yes indeed using comet models under frame and components to produce the LMS version...weathered it is one of my favourites..Palethorpes were a local Black Country company...really like your models especially the GWR version...heresy for a midland man I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 You could do the GWR one with Comet stuff too, apart from J hangers which I made myself, as mentioned above (a right royal pain). I agree about the heresy, I'm a LMS man. Figuring out the differences and getting them modelled was kind of fun though. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Another W&T kit on eBay this week as an alternative to the Hornby http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PALETHORPES-WAGON-SCALE-RAIL-VEHICLE-METAL-KIT-MADE-BY-W-T-SCALE-4mm-/301656867386?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463c26823a Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81E Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I've just made GWR & LMS chassis using Shapeways 3d printing service but just need to check, should the solebars be fluted (i.e. I section or flat? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Those look interesting. How do you deal with the central axle issues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I've just made GWR & LMS chassis using Shapeways 3d printing service but just need to check, should the solebars be fluted (i.e. I section or flat? Will these be on general sale? I could use one of each, with Cambridge transfers! Do you have a Shapeways shop? cheers from Oz, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 I just refreshed the pictures after Photobucket screwed them up. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Thanks, John, that's very public spirited of you on such an old thread. Pity the van hasn't gained a millimetre a year. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share Posted October 7, 2019 Cheers Alan. Check out Ian's thread. About time there was a decent model. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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