simon br blue Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Just had an email from Shapeways saying they are changing the pricing on strong & flexible materials. You can see what the price of your own designs will be after the change. Sadly most of my models will be significantly more expensive. Will be interesting to see how it effects other peoples models. Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Strewth, just seen the price of mine, some are 4-5 times the price! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 This is interesting. Flipping through a list of designs I have put on there but are not ready to be printed, some are cheaper and some are more expensive. The worst one that comes back is this: That's over 14 times the price! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 On some of mine now, FUD will become noticeably cheaper than WSF to the tune of 75 Euros on one example. (Still 2.25x the original cost, therefore no longer viable). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Have they put the decimal point in the right place ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 When do the price rises kick in? Or has it already happened? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I rarely use WSF for my tram bodies because I prefer other materials, but some of the price increases are a bit barmy, A WSF Blackpool Coronation is now 25% dearer in WSF than FUD? Basically it seems to boil down to if it's not got a hollow space of 4cm x 4cm x 4cm within the print it's classed as solid as they can't print a print within a print to optimize machine use......or something like that anyway, I'll stand corrected if someone has a better description......!. Where it does win is 7mm prints in general are now a fair bit cheaper as they have a greater hollow internal are allowing other prints inside, but it does end up with a slightly surreal situation where a 4mm model can be dearer than a 7mm one. IM might be picking a bit of business for Polymide soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 One week to go....on price hikes on WSF These might be worth a shout on SLS in the future......can't comment never used them but a heads up for SW WSF users .https://www.3dprint-uk.co.uk/ Other than that for those asking try IM Polymide for a price....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 When do the price rises kick in? Or has it already happened? 7th October Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoorObjecten Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Basically it seems to boil down to if it's not got a hollow space of 4cm x 4cm x 4cm within the print it's classed as solid as they can't print a print within a print to optimize machine use......or something like that anyway, I'll stand corrected if someone has a better description......!. No, you're right. Although there might be a chance that there is a model in the tray mix that would fit, the chances there is one is quite small and thus it's considered as solid. The main issue is that SLS material can only be recycled once or twice, so even though the material isn't used, the powder still has to be thrown away after 2 runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Some of mine like the WIA bogies will increase in price by a factor of 6 or more In fact if you want any of the WIAs they order them and the boges before the 7th because the price will quadruple !!! Most of the coach prices are going to double or treble and the logic appears utterly random (eg the Mark 1 non corridor gets cheaper while an almost identical design of something else trebles in price). There is no useful explanation as to why either just a general explanation for 2 year olds and a breakdown that on several models makes no sense at all The big problem seems to be that they've silently vanished the existing discount for large volumes of material by replacing it with a massive 'machine space' price, so one offs are now about the same price and everything else is massively more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Having received the email last night, I've just checked my models, shocked by the increase on some of them. Looking at the new prices, you seem to be being hit for models that are difficult to handle (lots of little separate parts) or ones that take up allot of the printing volume when you take the bounding area. There's a link to a more detailed explanation from Shapeways in their email. As an example to share wit you, I've printed some small bases for some N Brass Loco Catenary masts (50 of them at around 4mm x 4mm x 3mm) which were €5.23, but with the revised prices are €74.64 (Labour €75.00, Volume €0.80, Machine Space €2.47). Quite how that price breakdown adds up to €74.64 escapes me. Not at all happy about the pricing changes and the extremely short notice given to people who operate shops. If the same changes are applied to FUD, which they must eventually do, that will be the end of 3D printing from Shapeways for me. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Vonzack: the catenary bases I did went down in price. The labour is largely based upon the number of pieces it seems so if you sprue the bases together you might get a sane price. Some of my compartments did the same but the later ones I'd already sprued together only went up slightly. As far as I can make out for low volumes its €1.50 * number of shells for WSF and €2 * number of shells for WSF polished. Their pricing tool however is clearly broken because if you have sets of interlocking parts it prices them stupidly even though they are one part for handling. On the plus side 3D Print UK is now looking cheaper for some items than Shapeways so its helping British manufacturing ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 @EP - Yeah the ones I did weren't sprue'd, so the cost of effort for fishing them out of the build tray is probably accurate I've been using 3D Print UK for a while now for WSF on a cost basis and can recommend them highly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Queue Shapeways panic buying for parts I have already costed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted October 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 1, 2014 Not that I print stuff in WSF, but some of my stuff has become cheaper. I'm sure Alan is right that putting things on sprues should help. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Sadly most of my models will be more expensive especially the 7mm wagons - these have all been designed to be printed in WSF from shapeways. Most of them wont be economic to get printed for example the 7mm Polybulk will cost 160 euros to print after the price 'improvements' and I'm not sure many people would pay that for an O gauge wagon. Looks like I'll have to get a couple of wagons I've been working on printed before the 7th and then look to see if any other companies can get close to the old Shapeways price. Overall it looks like most modellers on here using WSF won't be enjoying the price changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjgardiner Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Most of mine are going down in price, though there are a couple of things that i've got uploaded and private that i've been working on that are getting crazy price increases because of their nature (not a lot of material but spindly frames that eat machine space apparently). Fortunately, those items were more mucking about than anything serious, so i'm not going to get too bent out of shape over them. Since most of my stuff is designed for FUD for the better surface finish, i'd be much more annoyed if they did something similar there as i think i'd be at a much higher risk of having massive price jumps. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will J Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Fortunately, those items were more mucking about than anything serious, so i'm not going to get too bent out of shape over them. Since most of my stuff is designed for FUD for the better surface finish, i'd be much more annoyed if they did something similar there as i think i'd be at a much higher risk of having massive price jumps. Hopefully Shapeways' very competitive FUD costs will not have to be adjusted due to the different 'print' methods used, not relying on lots of expensive powder being thrown away? (probably a gross simplification....) The WSF prices have come at a worrying time as I was about to get a price for my Arley station building, designed for WSF. See: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/351/entry-14854-another-quick-update-arley-in-3d/ I uploaded it tonight and, to my relief, it came out at around 40 Euros at current prices and around 50 Euros after the 7th. So not a big problem, those two figures were about the 'ballpark' I was after. The cost could be reduced quite a bit by slimming down the walls from 1.2mm to nearer the minimum 0.7, but I want the building to be reasonably robust. The building is a hollow shell with minimal internal structure, so presumably Shapeways imagine printing something inside it. For info, here are the vital stats for a small N gauge station building: ORIENTED BOUNDS (in) 2.26w x 2.333d x 6.744h (cm) 5.74w x 5.926d x 17.13h Material Volume 27.9037cm3 Machine Space 191.0961cm3 Density 4.79% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon br blue Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 To get a price breakdown on the polybulk the picture below show some details- labour 7.50 euro Material volume 16.09 euro Machine space 129.51 euro Total cost 146.09 euro (for some reason these don't add up?) Obviously the size is the killer for this model but then a 7mm Polybulk is a big wagon. Shapeways suggest 'making it smaller' to reduce costs. But then it wouldn't be O gauge !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Someone has done the poking around: basically it seems to come out as If your model is a single item and higher than 19% density it gets cheaper *IF* you didn't qualify for material volume discount. As the parts go up the %age goes through the roof. If you get the material volume discount the density is way higher. So it seems to me the "cheaper" only applies to solid blobs (usually a sign of bad design) and a small class of objects where you can print things together tightly packed. Eg it's near enough free now to print other objects *inside* a coach shell providing you sprue them to it. Of course that completely screws polishing. That's one of the oddities that was puzzling me about price shifts that now makes sense - coaches with interiors changed price much less than those with add on interiors. I need to play with the packing model they use a bit more - it's not clear for example if it correctly handles big objects with lumps each end and a big space someone else could use between them (ie coaches). If so I need to put all the roofs under the floors instead of on top. Fortunately most coaches are built by a software tool so in most cases I can 'recompile' the coaches this way up if it helps. Meanwhile my basket is rather loaded - I think Shapeways print queues are going to go through the roof in a few days time... serves them right for 7 days notice ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoorObjecten Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 To get a price breakdown on the polybulk the picture below show some details- labour 7.50 euro Material volume 16.09 euro Machine space 129.51 euro Total cost 146.09 euro (for some reason these don't add up?) Obviously the size is the killer for this model but then a 7mm Polybulk is a big wagon. Shapeways suggest 'making it smaller' to reduce costs. But then it wouldn't be O gauge !!!! In short, your model is f*cked because there is no possibility of other models being placed inside this cylinder shape. Because of this the cylinder is calculated as a solid piece for the machine space and thus really high. Note that SLS powder can only be recycled once or twice. So even though we don't use the powder inside the cylinder, it can only be re-used once or twice and thus is considered in the pricing. What you could you is splitting the cylinder in 2 halves. (will require you to assemble it upon arrival) this way models can be placed inside the parts and the price will go down! Mitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizmacnz Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I have very few items in my Shapeways shop that have come down in price. Some have tenfold plus increases in price. The killer to me has been the fact that they now charge $1.50 per part. I loaded up a set of model windows and put them on a loop plastic as per the picture below. This is preferable to a sprue, because there is no attachment to the model to make good. The saving on the new Shapeways price is $28.50. Even with this modification, the twenty windows are about 50% more expensive than the existing price. I have been designing items for my Shapeways store that make the most of the existing Shapeways pricing model. Most of these will become commercially non-viable as of October 7. I need to get my brain around the new pricing model and retune my design direction. I also need to find an alternative to Shapeways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted October 2, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 2, 2014 This seems a bit under handed to me they obvious been making a profit or they would have done this before now. It seems they have come to the conclusion that the have enough of a client base and come up with this to just to make more money. A bit unfair I would say I can only hope other companies are out there with a more reasonable pricing policy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Agreed, underhanded:-The changes are touted as big price reductions, yet the majority are actually price increases.When they go "Public" with such doubletalk, how are we then to explain price increases to customers? I confirm most of my WSF is up 20%. Collating items on a drawing is $1.50 an item, so get making sprues of everything!REMEMBER - 10% off on eBay prices, when direct from me. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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