RMweb Gold Market65 Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 Hi. I don't know if these photo's will be of any help, but here's three photo's of some of the preserved Gresley's on the NYMR at Levisham. The graining, to me, is just not right on the newly released Hornby models. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Melberley's post #14 highlights the difference between Hornby's original and latest teak finish. The latest finish might be described as 'Railroad' teak, although it also looks vastly different than before because of the lack of primrose & red lining. If, as reported, Hornby has gone to a new factory, it seems a shame that the coaches were not re-tooled to Gresley Full Brake standards to iron out most of their faults. A spot of weathering would probably reduce the in-your-face wood graining, although interestingly the Sleeping car retains its original graining without lining..... Lining out was discontinued for the war but it was reintroduced afterwards along with white roofs, but naturally only on "repaints"; this much is clear from photos. Roofs would soon tone down in a totally steam environment, which is probably why Hornby chose grey. Finally, Hornby forgot to put the 1's on first class doors, a job for the modeller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 12, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2014 Melberley's post #14 highlights the difference between Hornby's original and latest teak finish. The latest finish might be described as 'Railroad' teak, although it also looks vastly different than before because of the lack of primrose & red lining. If, as reported, Hornby has gone to a new factory, it seems a shame that the coaches were not re-tooled to Gresley Full Brake standards to iron out most of their faults. A spot of weathering would probably reduce the in-your-face wood graining, although interestingly the Sleeping car retains its original graining without lining..... r4602.jpg Lining out was discontinued for the war but it was reintroduced afterwards along with white roofs, but naturally only on "repaints"; this much is clear from photos. Roofs would soon tone down in a totally steam environment, which is probably why Hornby chose grey. Finally, Hornby forgot to put the 1's on first class doors, a job for the modeller. Also looks something wrong with the stay bars to my eyes! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike70 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Melberley's post #14 highlights the difference between Hornby's original and latest teak finish. The latest finish might be described as 'Railroad' teak, although it also looks vastly different than before because of the lack of primrose & red lining. If, as reported, Hornby has gone to a new factory, it seems a shame that the coaches were not re-tooled to Gresley Full Brake standards to iron out most of their faults. A spot of weathering would probably reduce the in-your-face wood graining, although interestingly the Sleeping car retains its original graining without lining..... r4602.jpg Lining out was discontinued for the war but it was reintroduced afterwards along with white roofs, but naturally only on "repaints"; this much is clear from photos. Roofs would soon tone down in a totally steam environment, which is probably why Hornby chose grey. Finally, Hornby forgot to put the 1's on first class doors, a job for the modeller. I noticed the Sleeping Car appeared to be better than the others. But I wasn't sure if that was just the graphic Hornby had used or if it represented the real article. The sleepers always tend to be slow sellers and are often available at a reduced price. So I wonder if Hornby over ordered on the last run of LNER Teak Sleepers? Maybe they still had parts to use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted November 12, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2014 Has anybody noticed the broken grab handle on the LH side of the Sleeper. So much for quality control. Keith Proof if it were needed that these are better moulded on than attached as seperate fittings! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Proof if it were needed that these are better moulded on than attached as seperate fittings! Not at all! Proof that the Hornby pictures (of which that is one) are of prototype models, likely well handled and inspected, onto which liveries are applied by computer. Either that or they are photographs of the livery samples, also well handled. detail breaking as an invitation for the owner/user to be more careful, not the manufacturer to mould on detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Not at all! Proof that the Hornby pictures (of which that is one) are of prototype models, likely well handled and inspected, onto which liveries are applied by computer. Either that or they are photographs of the livery samples, also well handled. detail breaking as an invitation for the owner/user to be more careful, not the manufacturer to mould on detail. Generally I would agree with this, but in the case of carriages where grab handles still out so little (about 2½ inches), they would be far better moulded on rather than being overscale plastic additions. The Gresley coaches were initially introduced at a time when Hornby was pushing the uses for plastic to its limit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Generally I would agree with this, but in the case of carriages where grab handles still out so little (about 2½ inches), they would be far better moulded on rather than being overscale plastic additions. The Gresley coaches were initially introduced at a time when Hornby was pushing the uses for plastic to its limit. Maybe, but my concern is that a manufacturer will see this and will use as evidence that seperate detail is no longer desired by the modeller. Maybe for door handles yes (Bachmann Mk1s are fine), but when Hornby (for example) extend this to replacing seperate roof vents with non-undercut moulded examples of the 2-BIL, this is a step backwards. Be careful what you wish for. As Hornby prooved with the GWR tanks and the Star, 'simplified detail' does not go hand in hand with 'sensible implementation'. Until the two are proven to go together, I'm all for staying well clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 A Gresley coach direct from Hornby arrived at 9.30 this morning. The whole lower panel below the windows has been treated as if it were one piece of wood when in fact they should be separate entities. But worst of all it is grossly over scale and some of the upper panels resemble vertical blinds! The livery is supposed to represent the many teak coaches that were not lined out with primrose colour beading after 1940 and carried the style of BR numbering as applied using LNER transfers from early 1948 until around April 1949. But for reasons best known to Hornby, the 1's have been missed off the first class doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drgj Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I quite like the look of the new coach although the older one is very good. Where you say that the panels on the new coach are treated as one piece maybe they are book matched or at least you could pretend so (although top and bottom panels don't quite match)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Am I right in thinking that these will be just the ticket to run behind the much-awaited C1 Atlantic in BR black? Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Am I right in thinking that these will be just the ticket to run behind the much-awaited C1 Atlantic in BR black? Anthony Yes. If it is any help, coaches got BR Gill Sans insignia at some time after May 1949; some early on and some as late as 1953 and not necessarily with a complete repaint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Many thanks - I was hoping for a thumbs-up! Presumably by then, they would have been diagrammed on relatively short trains? (Lack of flexibility in credit card rules!) Anthony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I would have thought 'book matched' describes the teak finish exactly; it is not a single panel of wood, the 'rings' would be round, not oblong. Looking at the printing it does have some fine detail, so maybe what we are complaining about is the particular design of grain chosen. Normally what I have written would infuriate me (i.e. its wrong why can't other people see that!!!), but I thought I'd throw it out anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Looks like O gauge or even larger scale graining , sorry to say dire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Looks like O gauge or even larger scale graining , sorry to say dire. Now you put it like that, I see what you mean, grain lines are too wide. almost like the design has been 'zoomed in'. Vertical panels (between windows) actually look OK though, hence my argument about manufacturing technique being capable still stands (I would suggest). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The technique is very good the bizarre scale is the problem . The vertical lining looks like small streams running downwards. Perhaps the wrong scaling was used as well as making the Coach look like a very large piece of wood. The good news is they have corrected the beading, perhaps so more in a correct LNER graining will be announced. Even nicer would be so new Diagrams !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Even nicer would be so new Diagrams !! Particularly if it included some variation in the number of compartments in the brake vehicles. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 20, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2014 Looks like the "shortage" of older LNER livery teaks (R417X series) is starting to cause the price to rise. I have been trying to build up a rake and so far this year have managed to buy 3 at around £30 each. I bid on one on Ebay the other day which eventually went for £37 and another S/H one is listed at £57.50 BIN! All those P2s Hornby has sold are crying out for some more LNER stock, with a level of finish as before C'mon Hornby get yer finger out! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Its the price that gets me on these models. I have the Rare Bird set, accompanied by a crimson/cream buffet and brake. I would ideally like this rake to be all teak, but £50 is more than I paid for the 2 crimson/cream coaches together! Despite the fact that I'm not too fussed about the detail pitfalls and new, inferior teak finish, I still baulk at the price. Perhaps if the carriages were lit, I would understand (my initial rake of 5 super-detailed Pullmans cost little over £100, that was however, back when a Hornby Pacific would set you back around £80-85). I had hoped that these would sit around long enough for my first pay cheque in September next year, but I see the Buffet has already sold out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 It's funny how the teak buffet has sold out already when its previous incarnation was discounted and made an inexpensive donor for etched brass side conversions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 20, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2014 Its the price that gets me on these models. I still baulk at the price. Perhaps if the carriages were lit, I would understand (my initial rake of 5 super-detailed Pullmans cost little over £100, that was however, back when a Hornby Pacific would set you back around £80-85). I have bought in the last two years, brand new, latest type Pullmans (8 and 12 wheel) for £20 - £25 each. Through careful purchasing I have managed to acrue 14 matchboard coaches from R4419 - R4482 without exceeding £30 each, mostly nearer £20. None were bought on e-bay. However trying to get some teaks during the same period has proved much less fruitful! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike70 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Still got buffet's in stock at Locomotion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lochlongside Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hi. I don't know if these photo's will be of any help, but here's three photo's of some of the preserved Gresley's on the NYMR at Levisham. The graining, to me, is just not right on the newly released Hornby models. 100_4308 - Copy.JPG 100_4309 - Copy.JPG 100_4310 - Copy.JPG All the best, Market65. Like the photos - not my era (mine weathered maroon/cc) but there are a load of teak coach colour photos both model and preserved online. (google search .."gresley teak coach colour picture" brought them up - many on Flickr). To my mind the real thing looks brighter and graining is finer (and) far less clearly defined at normal viewing distances than latest Hornby - with quite a disparity in many cases between panel colours and patterns. Over time sunlight/UV must have a major impact on base colour. Looking at pictures and our experience with (wood) furniture and plywood dinghies, most exposed wood has gone lighter, particularly noticeable once the covering varnish is stripped off. A member of the LNER Coach Association would presumably be best placed to comment on Hornby rendition. Their website http://www.lnerca.org/also gives access to many photos and has a lot of useful info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Exact oppositte to last post. 4mm Teak grain is virtually invisible at normal viewing distances. The variation is the colours in the shades of wood used in the panels. Teak weathers to a Dark Brown ,unless as done by the LNER it is bleached by Oxalic Acid and then revarnished to bring the lighter colour back to the wood. Look how dark the Teak is on preserved coaches are in the above photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.