Newcastle - Liverpool of trans pennine

[class37418stag]

Hello everyone

 

In 1980 - 1990 Newcastle - Liverpool Lime street (North west) trans pennine class 47

 

47406 rail riders intercity

47461 Charles rennie mackintosh intercity (scotrail with blue stripe)

47474 sir rowland hill parcel

47475 trans pennine

47541 the queen mother intercity (scotrail)

47612 Titan intercity

47710 sir Walter Scott intercity (scotrail with blue stripe)

 

All class 47 has running duties of trans pennine by new castle to Liverpool then go back

Please give any detail or comment

Thank you

[mjkerr]

Could end up with any Class 47/4 being allocated and other Class 47 by luck

Also swapped from a mix of Class 45 and Class 47 to solely Class 47

Changed from the 1990s with sectorisation and primarily specific locos, but due to poor reliability ended up with two pools, main and spare

Edited April 1, 2015 by mjkerr

[black and decker boy]

The parcels sector livery would only have overlapped with the loco hauled TransPennine trains by a matter of months from mid 1990 so might not be suitable but not impossible.

 

Intercity and plain blue livery did turn up from time to time but the bulk of the 47/4s used were in large logo blue. 47475 in its unique provincial blue was used too when it wasn't broken. Scotrail livery would again have been on the rare side.

 

A decent reference is https://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/sets/72157627301479693/

[peanuts]

you could get the odd "foriegn " engine turn up on the 08.05 ex york on a thursday as this was used as a running in /testing turn for that weekends railtour engine out of york this is the reason 55002 koyli made the last deltic run over the pennines a week after the official goodbye transpennine trains and just days before withdrawl  i have apic somewhere of her arriving at Stalybridge on the return working somewhere 

[peak experience]

The regulars were often in the number range 47401 to 47430 (im guessing many were Gateshead Locomotives) . I lived right next to the line from 1978 to 1985 with a grandstand view. We would often get peaks in the mid 80s and deltics were semi regular in the last 2 years of service for the class. Class 40s could still be seen on summer services on Saturdays and additionals at other times.

Edited April 2, 2015 by peak experience

[GordonC]

Didn't Scotrail locos sometimes work the services when they were en-route to or from Crewe Works for overhaul?

[blueeighties]

Didn't Scotrail locos sometimes work the services when thedoen-route to or from Crewe Works for overhaul?

They did indeed. When first converted and in plain blue/large logo, and then from 1985 with the wonderful Scotrail. I dont know if there were regular/usual services to get them up North, but the service to get them North from Newcastle was 1S15, the 17.18 Newcastle-Edinburgh. Had many a gleaming Scotrail shove duff on that service :-)

[mjkerr]

Didn't Scotrail locos sometimes work the services when they were en-route to or from Crewe Works for overhaul?

Yes, it was easier to route them via Newcastle and Liverpool, than via GSW (Carlisle and Leds), which I always found rather odd

[GordonC]

Did they work a service train to get between Edinburgh and Newcastle or did they travel light engine?

[keefer]

Service train, usually the teatime service as mentioned by blueeighties above.

I know there was a usual Liverpool-Newcastle service which fed into this, but can't remember the exact time.

[65179]

47461 and 47541 both ended up in the TP pool at Crewe after the highland mainline services went over to DMUs. 47541 lasted more or less to the end of the loco-hauled TPs, but Chas Mackintosh didn't last long down south before being written off in a shunting (? ) accident at Lime St. A shame as it was my favourite Class 47.

 

Simon

[mjkerr]

Did they work a service train to get between Edinburgh and Newcastle or did they travel light engine?

Up until about 1988, when this service ended

After that it was either light engine from Eastfield to Heaton, or on a freight from Millerhill to Tyne

Equally, it does seem odd when it was not routed via Carlisle

Edited April 2, 2015 by mjkerr

[class37418stag]

you could get the odd "foriegn " engine turn up on the 08.05 ex york on a thursday as this was used as a running in /testing turn for that weekends railtour engine out of york this is the reason 55002 koyli made the last deltic run over the pennines a week after the official goodbye transpennine trains and just days before withdrawl  i have apic somewhere of her arriving at Stalybridge on the return working somewhere

 

I am not aware about your comment over class 55002 but I am more aware about trans pennine use class 31 or class 47 had electric heating to keep warm in coach while travelling to Liverpool or Newcastle

And I am more aware about class 47

[40044]

Service train, usually the teatime service as mentioned by blueeighties above.

I know there was a usual Liverpool-Newcastle service which fed into this, but can't remember the exact time.

The 06:12 Lime St - Newcastle used to be the best bet for an ex-works ScR 47, although the 16:05 ex Lime St was also used

[phixer64]

you could get the odd "foriegn " engine turn up on the 08.05 ex york on a thursday as this was used as a running in /testing turn for that weekends railtour engine out of york this is the reason 55002 koyli made the last deltic run over the pennines a week after the official goodbye transpennine trains and just days before withdrawl  i have apic somewhere of her arriving at Stalybridge on the return working somewhere 

 

I remember going to Liverpool Lime Street, for a long weekender from Plymouth. On arriving, 55018 Ballymoss was leaving, what a sound.

 

Regards Jeff

[woodenhead]

It's all such a long time ago now, but when I began trainspotting in the mid seventies it was Trans Pennine units on the service and I can remember going to York on one.  Then if I recall correctly they then went over to Class 47 haulage before class 45s came in during the early 80s and then back to 47s when the Peaks were all withdrawn until the Sprinters took over.  I don't remember seeing class 31's on the Standedge route hauling Trans Pennine services,

 

Am i correct in thinking that services from Liverpool to Newcastle stopped after privatisation and have only recently been re-introduced with 185s cascaded because the 350s have come on stream?

[GordonC]

No, Class 158s replaced the loco-hauled services before they were in turn replaced by the Class 185s

[mjkerr]

Am i correct in thinking that services from Liverpool to Newcastle stopped after privatisation and have only recently been re-introduced with 185s cascaded because the 350s have come on stream?

Partially correct

 

Class 47s up to Class 158 introduction

With privitisation the regular Newcastle - Liverpool services ended and rerouted to Manchester Airport (with only some services continuing to Liverpool)

This replacement route then swapped from Clas 158 to Class 185 units

They were reintroduced last year still using Class 185 units

Edited April 3, 2015 by mjkerr

[kenw]

It's all such a long time ago now, but when I began trainspotting in the mid seventies it was Trans Pennine units on the service and I can remember going to York on one.  Then if I recall correctly they then went over to Class 47 haulage before class 45s came in during the early 80s and then back to 47s when the Peaks were all withdrawn until the Sprinters took over.  I don't remember seeing class 31's on the Standedge route hauling Trans Pennine services,

 

Am i correct in thinking that services from Liverpool to Newcastle stopped after privatisation and have only recently been re-introduced with 185s cascaded because the 350s have come on stream?

 

The Trans-Pennine (DMU) units never worked the Newcastle services, these remained loco-hauled until introduction of 158s on the route. I believe 40s were mostly used on dieselisation, by the early 80s it was mostly peaks and 47s, with the 47s taking over totally as they were displaced from other routes by HSTs, until they were replaced by the 158s.

 

With the re-organisation of trans-pennine services under TransPennine Express, and concentration of services on Piccadilly in Manchester, the Newcastle trains were switched to serving Manchester Airport (apart from one or two), and the Liverpool trains were to / from Middlesbrough. The services were then taken over by the 185s.

 

The recent changes to services through Manchester to allow for the NW electrification and associated works, has resulted in the Newcastle services reverting to serving Liverpool.

[peak experience]

deltics i saw on the trans pennines were 2/3/4/5/6/10/11/13/17/18/19/21/22

i never saw a class 31 on a passenger train on the standedge route .. they were really rare on freight.

Edited April 3, 2015 by peak experience

[woodenhead]

The Trans-Pennine (DMU) units never worked the Newcastle services, these remained loco-hauled until introduction of 158s on the route. I believe 40s were mostly used on dieselisation, by the early 80s it was mostly peaks and 47s, with the 47s taking over totally as they were displaced from other routes by HSTs, until they were replaced by the 158s.

Was it the Liverpool -York services that were Trans Pennine units then, I remember seeing them and using them in the 70s

[kenw]

Trans-Pennine DMUs may have worked to York then, tho I dont recall ever seeing one there. I think they mostly worked the Hull - Trans Pennine services. Certainly never seen them, or any reference to them, working to Newcastle.

 

Before the class 40s they usually had an A3 on north of Leeds / York, and I've seen pictures of exLMS Patriots working into York on them. Also, up till closure in '67, many Newcastle services used the Leeds - Harrogate - Ripon - Northallerton route, bypassing York, and some also used the Durham Coast route via Stockton and Sunderland rather than the main line

[woodenhead]

Maybe I got the units to Leeds then and travelled on to York by other services, it was a long time ago now.

[peanuts]

deltics i saw on the trans pennines were 2/3/4/5/6/10/11/13/17/18/19/21/22

 

i never saw a class 31 on a passenger train on the standedge route .. they were really rare on freight.

think i saw two on service trains in my 26 years living the other side of the valley just above the old uppermill goods yard both times they were dragging an errant duff and eight mk2s west usualy very late .as an aside did on more than a few occasions see a class 25 (the victoria station pilot ? ) dragging a failed duff and eight mk2s  east usualy exceptionaly late 

 

summer saturday northwales holiday trains usualy mustered  40 and ten mk1s  

 

the above info is correct the transpenine dmus worked lime street to york and hull with the newcastles being formed of usualy a 40 and a rake of mk1s with the recasting of servises the newcastle /york /Scarborough services went over to class 45/46/47 with the occasional Deltic post 78 .even remember one summer saturday with three deltics on the transpenine diagrammes

 

 also the york shrewsbury mails quite frequently mustered a Deltic as far as stockport  & return used to be able to hear that distinctive roar as they would climb up the valley from stalybridge in the early hours 

[62613]

The entire service was reorganised in the late 70s, IIRC. I think that prior to that, after the dieselisation of the route in 1961(?), there were Trans-Pennine Liverpool - Hull services, using the specially built units. I think every alternative hour, the unit was replaced by a loco-hauled Liverpool - Newcastle service; this was generally 45/46 hauled, and was originally 12 Mk 1 coaches. As mentioned, the service was entirely recast in the late 1970s, to try and compete with the M62, when it became hourly Liverpool-York, with trains of eight or nine early mark 2s. The 8-sets ran to York, and the 9-sets to Newcastle in alternate hours. In the original recast, one service to Newcastle was extended to Edinburgh in the summer. I don't know how long that lasted. The sets also included a mini-buffet in one of the coaches. Sometimes, one of the surviving ex-LNER buffet cars appeared.

 

The TP units were combined with some class 123 units to give 4-coach sets for the South Transpennine services (to Manchester Piccadilly) , and also the residual Liverpool-Hull services over the Stanedge route. With the coaches being Mk 2s, usually 2B or 2C, the loco was required to be ETH-fitted and air braked, hence the 47/4s. At the end of their lives, when the 125s were taking over on the ECML, Deltics were used on some diagrams; I think the favourite was the 1015 YK-LIV and 1305 return. As Peanuts explained, the summer Saturday holiday trains were hauled by class 40s, until these were withdrawn.

 

As an aside, I had a  grandstand view of these services from our living room window, which overlooked the former Uppermiil goods yard, throughout the late 60s, all the 70s, and the early 80s, and also in the Colne Valley to and from school.