br2975 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I recently attended the Derby Show as an operator. . It was a first class show, at a first class venue, and if invited we would return again in the future. . What follows is no reflection upon the show organisers, as it is unrelated to the show. . Accommodation (Friday & Saturday) was arranged by the organising club at the Holiday Inn Express, Derby Pride Park. . Today, I received through the post a 'Parking Fine Notice' issued by a company trading as "Parking Eye" and based in Chorley. . The 'notice' is addressed to me personally, at my home address, and demands £100 ( £60 if paid within 14 days ) for unathorised parking in the hotel car park. . The notice shows two cctv images of a hire van entering and leaving the hotel car park. . The notice indicates that Parking Eye have copies of the van hire agreement signed by myself, and as the hirer/lessee I am liable for the parking fine. . But, there's a problem - I didn't hire that van, have never hired from the company in question,and never drove it into or out of their car park, and have never been a 'named driver' on a vehicle hired from that company by a third party. . Therefore, "Parking Eye" either don't have copies of the van hire agreement OR someone has hired a van in my name using my licence, which has never been lost and lives in a locked safe at home. . Had the photographs provided been a bit clearer they would have confirmed I wasn't the driver. . The only alternative explanation is that my details i.e. name and address may have been passed to "Parking Eye" by staff at the Holiday Inn Express, Derby Pride Park. . I would contend that could be a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998. . I have appealed against the issuing of the "fine" - and 'required' from "Parking Eye" the production of the hire agreement allegedly purporting to show me as the hirer of the vehicle - in order that I can alert the police local to where the vehicle was hired. . I have also brought my suspicions to the attention of Holiday Inn Express, Derby Pride Park, and await a response to my e-mail. . Watch this space. . PS I reiterate, this has no connection with, and no criticism is attached to the organisers of a damn good show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hanlon's Razor* perhaps? * never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity (or a least a careless mistake). Perhaps a mistake made by the hotel and they passed on your particulars instead of someone with a similar name? Good luck in sorting it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hanlon's Razor* perhaps? * never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity (or a least a careless mistake). Perhaps a mistake made by the hotel and they passed on your particulars instead of someone with a similar name? Good luck in sorting it out. Having read the 'parking charge notice' my first port of call was to telephone the Holiday Inn Express, to be advised by the duty manager that "we would never pass on customers personal information to Parking Eye" - but she went on to ask "Do you want me to send them an e-mail and get the fine cancalled ?" . What I want is written confirmation from Holiday Inn Express and Parking Eye (a) that the charge will not be pursued, and I will not (at some future date) become subject of a CCJ for something to which I am unconnected, and (b) how Parking Eye came by my personal details in order to threaten me. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 It's probably worth dropping the details to the Information Commissioners Office, it might at least get people having to run around to account for their actions, and cost them time and money at least. https://ico.org.uk/concerns/handling/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would just bin it and not get worked up about it. It is not a "fine" but rather a request to pay. Seems to be common practice at the more dodgy end of the market. I certainly would not get involved in any correspondence with them. My real thoughts about these "people" and how they operate are much too rude to include here. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would just bin it and not get worked up about it. It is not a "fine" but rather a request to pay. Seems to be common practice at the more dodgy end of the market. I certainly would not get involved in any correspondence with them. My real thoughts about these "people" and how they operate are much too rude to include here. Bernard Whilst I agree with your sentiments towards the "people". Binning it won't prevent it happening again and again to some poor souls, who wiil probably pay up for something they haven't done. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Did the hotel ask you for a registration number when you checked in? Did they outline any parking restrictions to you on check-in? Is there a charge for parking for hotel guests? Did another member of your group rent the van? Although you are entitled to see a copy of the agreement that Parking Eye claim to have, they will not reveal it until the appeal process at the very least. All parking on private land is no longer a criminal offence and there is an appeal process run by POPLA ( Parking On Private Land Arbitration ). If you win the appeal that is the end of it and Parking Eye cannot pursue you. I would not pursue this matter with the whys and wherefores around the hire agreement. Insist that the hotel deal with it and write to you to confirm that they have done so. Remember that the hotel is paying Parking Eye to manage their car park to prevent abuse. Any mistake or issue of name and address has almost certainly come from them if the hire company has never heard of you.....ever. I will refrain from commenting on the Parking Eye syndrome for fear of flaming. They very rarely win any appeals and they certainly didn't win the one that I was involved in and they had a stronger case than yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would go to town to both parties. Firstly confirm to the hotel your booking details and car reg so they can check their details. Then ask for a full explanation of how their agents contacted you as the coincidence of someone cloning your details and actually using the same hotel at the same time must be higher than winning the lottery. I would then explain that this demand has and is causing you great personal distress and if it is not resolved quickly you may have to seek medical treatment for the distress caused. Very good advice about the Information Commissioner getting involved I would then write a letter to the parking company giving then details of your stay and vehicle used and request the same information as above including where they got your details from. Lay on the stress and anxiety this is causing you and demand they inform you of where they got your details. You could threaten both of them with reporting them both for identity theft/fraud etc. I find it strange that being a paying guest at a hotel they seek to charge you, lay it on thick to both of them especially how much distress this matter is causing you and I would copy the directors of the hotel chain with the correspondence. Now this action will stop this action in its tracks, they should have checks in place for disclosing your information to third parties,these seem to have failed. If you make enough fuss I guess a free weekend will be coming your way with the misses at one of their hotels. It may well have been a mistake from a junior employee, but they have a moral obligation to you and a legal obligation to protect your personal details. Ask Kenton to sort them out for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would just bin it and not get worked up about it. It is not a "fine" but rather a request to pay. Seems to be common practice at the more dodgy end of the market. I certainly would not get involved in any correspondence with them. My real thoughts about these "people" and how they operate are much too rude to include here. Bernard Such penalties are enforceable. The High Court has recently upheld a decision by a lower court to support Parking Eye's claim to payment. So ignoring them probably isn't a good idea. There is, however, an independent appeals authority, PoPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals), which was set up as part of legislative changes which give property owners the right to enforce parking charges against the registered keepers of vehicles parked on their land. Although funded by a levy on the parking operators, it is genuinely independent and, on average, upholds around 55% of appeals made to them. Their rulings are binding on the parking operators, so a successful appeal to PoPLA is the end of the matter. In the OP's case, it probably isn't necessary to go to PoPLA as there is clear evidence of the ticket being issued in error and the hotel has already offered to get it cancelled (which, as the landowners, they are able to do). So for him, the issue is not whether he will have to pay the ticket (which he won't), but whether there has been actual fraud or other unlawful actions, rather than simple error, involved in the circumstances which led to it being issued. But it's worth noting for anyone else who may be in a similar position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2015 I had a similar experience to this some years ago. A dodgy organisation based in Merseyside sent me a demand related to parking at a building IIRC in Birkenhead. I was at a meeting in Birmingham at the time in question, my car was in a car park in Stockport Station and the keys in my pocket. I challenged the company and they said they got my details from the DVLA. By chasing the company, DVLA, the Information Commissioner and my MP, I managed to get a copy of the request for driver details which had been submitted. My number was not on there, but a number with one digit difference in the year was. Trying to get any recompence from the DVLA for my troubles was almost a dead loss, they offered me £20 compensation. The Information Commissioner was little better, but I got a rapid withdrawl and apology from the company when they knew I had been in touch with Trading Standards and Police whilst trying to get advice on how to deal with it. This website will tell you of many similar experiences. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=23 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would just bin it and not get worked up about it. It is not a "fine" but rather a request to pay. Seems to be common practice at the more dodgy end of the market. I certainly would not get involved in any correspondence with them. My real thoughts about these "people" and how they operate are much too rude to include here. Bernard Bernard You are very right about NOT getting worked up about this. There is a serious side which is Data Protection, the hotel has a legal obligation to protect customers personal information. They will have very red faces if this matter is pushed up to senior management, and every now and then staff must be reminded about what they can and cannot do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Ask Kenton to sort them out for you No need to call in the heavies yet Seriously: The important thing here is the possibly intentional and unlawful disclosure of your personal details. I stress possible unintentional as, if someone of authority at the hotel disclosed the details to their contracted parking company it could be a genuine mistake. You should certainly pursue the correspondence with the hotel as it is their mistake and they who are causing you distress. Time limit any reply and insist on it in writing. The only correspondence I would bother to make with the parking company would be to notify them to contact their contractors (hotel) as you are dealing with them in this matter. In practice the parking company cannot act without their contractor's authority. (copy the hotel and make it clear that you have done so). Write your letters clearly and to the point - it is likely to be a mistake so always give them the benefit of the doubt no matter how much it irk you to do so. Don't worry about a CCJ - they have to take you to court to get one and you will have an opportunity to defend the case - this will not happen behind your back. Courts act very slowly and a judge will take a dim view of harassment and the poor quality of evidence they are presenting, and any failure to communicate on their part. They clearly cannot produce a valid hire agreement and this is the only item of evidence against you. The images of the van are irrelevant without it. If they produce the hire agreement then your problem is slightly more complex as you have been impersonated. The van hire company needs to be involved along with the police as this could have more widespread consequences. So it sounds like you are doing the right thing. Obtain a opy of the "evidence" - the van hire agreement. (perhaps by contacting the van hire company directly) and good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would just bin it and not get worked up about it. It is not a "fine" but rather a request to pay. Seems to be common practice at the more dodgy end of the market. I certainly would not get involved in any correspondence with them. My real thoughts about these "people" and how they operate are much too rude to include here. Bernard Old advice due to legislation change I'm afraid, that and a name has been given (incorrectly) Previously they needed you to admit in reply, now they don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I suspect Brian's more than aware of the potential legal niceties, given his day job, but is more concerned about who's passed the information on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 .....I will refrain from commenting on the Parking Eye syndrome for fear of flaming. They very rarely win any appeals and they certainly didn't win the one that I was involved in and they had a stronger case than yours. Court statistics for the year to 2014 suggest otherwise However, when they lose, the judgment transcripts can be quite entertaining to read - example here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2015 I wouldn't be concerned about the parking ticket - just follow the easy route and get the hotel to cancel it. I would be concerned about the possibility of identity theft. I think we have to accept that Parking Eye, whatever faults they may have, genuinely believed that you did hire the van in question. As you didn't hire the van, and as the hotel would not have you down as the owner of the van, Parking Eye must have got the "information" connecting you and the van from somewhere. Parking Eye may not have actually seen the hire agreement - they may merely have received details of it from the hire company. You indicate that you know the identity of the hire company and so I would contact them to find out if there indeed was such an agreement. If there was, and if your identity has been used, I would then contact the police. DT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2015 Such penalties are enforceable. The High Court has recently upheld a decision by a lower court to support Parking Eye's claim to payment. So ignoring them probably isn't a good idea. There is, however, an independent appeals authority, PoPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals), which was set up as part of legislative changes which give property owners the right to enforce parking charges against the registered keepers of vehicles parked on their land. Although funded by a levy on the parking operators, it is genuinely independent and, on average, upholds around 55% of appeals made to them. Their rulings are binding on the parking operators, so a successful appeal to PoPLA is the end of the matter. In the OP's case, it probably isn't necessary to go to PoPLA as there is clear evidence of the ticket being issued in error and the hotel has already offered to get it cancelled (which, as the landowners, they are able to do). So for him, the issue is not whether he will have to pay the ticket (which he won't), but whether there has been actual fraud or other unlawful actions, rather than simple error, involved in the circumstances which led to it being issued. But it's worth noting for anyone else who may be in a similar position. Beavis has now appealed the High Court decision which will not be heard in the Supreme Court until July 2016 Popla have made a statement that all POPLA cases where the operator relies on the ParkingEye v Beavis result will be stayed until the case is heard at the Supreme Court. Parking eye are the most litigious of private parking companies but good advice on private parking tickets can be obtained here http://forums.pepipoo.com/ and here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2015 Just to back up my comments about Parking Eye being litigous and people should never ignore them In the 7 months up to July 2014 they issued 17000 court claims. Only a fraction would have seen a court room as I think they rely on people paying because they find the prospect of court too frightening. Details here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5040775&highlight=court+statistics (sorry - have seen the full FOI details but can't find it here) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Just to back up my comments about Parking Eye being litigous and people should never ignore them..... ...(sorry - have seen the full FOI details but can't find it here) Link to FOI statistics for the year to 2014 in my post above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Several people have mentioned Pepipoo. Unfortunately that website is populated primarily by uninformed bar-room lawyers, and advice obtained from there is extremely unlikely to be reliable. I would advise anyone concerned about parking tickets to stay well away from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2015 Several people have mentioned Pepipoo. Unfortunately that website is populated primarily by uninformed bar-room lawyers, and advice obtained from there is extremely unlikely to be reliable. I would advise anyone concerned about parking tickets to stay well away from it. I think on any free forum the advice will be from 'arm chair experts' but I would disagree about Pepipoo as to me they seen to be pretty switched on. I don't think you'll find many QC's idly giving free advice on a forum. If one wants proper legal advice then one has to pay for it but that could cost more than the fake parking fine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My old man is of an age where he parks his car just about anywhere and then forgets that these places have time limits. It's got to the stage where I now use standardised appeal grounds for POPLA appeals, two of which have involved Parking Eye. We haven't lost any yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 10, 2015 Several people have mentioned Pepipoo. Unfortunately that website is populated primarily by uninformed bar-room lawyers, and advice obtained from there is extremely unlikely to be reliable. I would advise anyone concerned about parking tickets to stay well away from it. In my case it wasn't following advice on Pepipoo, but using it as source to provide pointers of where to look. I found numerous people who had issues with the firm concerned, although them obtaining my details was due to a DVLA error. The company had changed names and been dissolved then restarted on several occasions and the latest incarnation has now been liquidated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted June 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2015 As the Derby representative on RMweb I guess I have to be careful what I say . . . . . I will advise Alex Hall (Exhibition Manager) about this topic and report back if there is anything I can add. Mike . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 As the Derby representative on RMweb I guess I have to be careful what I say . . . . . I will advise Alex Hall (Exhibition Manager) about this topic and report back if there is anything I can add. . . My enquiries today suggest there is an even more ridiculous explanation that will most likely exonerate both Parking Eye, Holiday Inn Express and originate a few weeks before the show, in another part of the country............................... . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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