RMweb Gold CovDriver Posted June 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hi All I'm in a bit of a pickle now that I've laid my points (peco code 75) and installed and wired up peco point motors (PL10E) with the peco accessory switches all of them work perfectly except one. This one seems to try and throw the point blades over but it just seems to either stick or not enough oomph!! As it moves over freely enough when I throw the blades over manually ? Has anybody got any suggestions I've thought about loosening the small recoil spring on the points itself as the next option. Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 23, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2015 It sounds as though the motor is not perfectly aligned with the tie-bar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2015 PL10E is the extended-pin model which relies upon near-perfect positioning due to the amount of play which exists between the motor and tie-bar along the pin. I'm afraid I abandoned all my long-pin motors and bored out the baseboard after removing the track to accommodate clip-in PL10 motors. Your problem does sound like misalignment and with those motors it only needs to be out by a fraction of a millimetre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hello Colin, While I agree with Beast and Gwiwer above, another consideration might be a slight horizontal distortion. I had a point that worked fine by hand, but I could not get a motor to switch, despite changing the motor and rewiring it (clutching at straws). It turns out the board undulated and I ended up moving the point a few inches. One of my many lessons in getting the baseboard right and most things dropping into place from there. As an aside, the next time I lay points, I will also bore holes for the PL-10. It's less of a faff than getting the position of the pin 'just right'. Good luck, Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Sell them off and use Tortoises just not worth the hassle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I want to say - try a CDU to give the motor a bit more 'umph' but I suspect the real cause has already been identified - out of alignement and far too much flexibility in the extended pin arrangement, Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold CovDriver Posted June 24, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thanks everyone for the hints and tips I'll try adjusting the position of the motor/pin and see what happens failing that I've got 3x tortoise motors collecting dust I may fit this instead but to be honest I haven't got a clue how to wire them up for DCC operation. I've got the current lot of motors going through a Lenz LS150 which is a cracking bit of kit. Do I need anything else to go with the tortoise motors to enable DCC operation ? Cheers Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hi Colin, We use either a swich8 - http://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-101158/nce-switch-8-dcc-8-output-accessory-decoder or a switchit http://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-101160/nce-switch-it-dcc-2-output-accessory-decoder.htm to drive our Tortoises. (Other suppliers are available, no connection just using as an example) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2015 I abandoned peco point motors due to the problems outlined above and replaced them with the seep PM1. Simple to fit and less expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2015 Have you got enough AMPs? As Ray said in post #6 a CDU. This gives a perfect amount of power and eliminates the possibility of a burn out. I use 24V DC with my Gaugemaster CDU (usual disclaimer). The input will need to be orientated +- for a DC supply. There can be a significant drop in amps over long runs! @ Tarifa. SEEP motors are in a league of their own and can be fixed with hot glue. It's a 2 second job! All those ugly clips and pins on the point can be removed making everything look much more prototypical too!! Regards Shaun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monjac Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I had a lot of trouble with the points not clicking over with the point motor despite them working well by hand. . I got really fed up after all my time and effort fitting the points. Then I read that you can ease the points springs . You suggested doing that at the start. I would do that first.. I did and all my problems disappeared. Also as suggested , a CDU is a good idea, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 A CDU is a given, a third of the points wouldn't switch reliably without one! I abandoned peco point motors due to the problems outlined above and replaced them with the seep PM1. Simple to fit and less expensive. I had wondered about the Seep, but read somewhere else about problems aligning them. I can't remember the issue or if it was resolved. They have an integral polarity switch don't they? Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2015 The PM2 has the switch! edit: Sorry it is the PM !I use hot glue to fix them. This allows for some movement when aligning. The only drawback would be that the connections need to be soldered! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2015 I had wondered about the Seep, but read somewhere else about problems aligning them. I can't remember the issue or if it was resolved. They have an integral polarity switch don't they? Alun, All or most point motors require vertical alighnment to the switching arm (or whatever it is called) to achieve a clean throw. The PM1 with the accessory (polarity) switch requires extra care in centreing the operating rod to ensure the contact washer clears the opposite pole pad when thrown. DC operation benifits from using a CDU. In the past I have "got away" with using a 16volt supply but 25v plus is best. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I really will have to post my solution to SEEP motors - I keep on saying it! I'm on 4 day shifts starting tomorrow, then off for nearly a month, I will have to do it next week. Basically, the switch on a SEEP is rubbish - I prefer to use an added microswitch, at a cost of pence off Ebay. (Working in electronics, I know the limitations of the Seep switch). I mount the Seep on its own easy-build plastic base, with a copper clad sleeper strip as a new tiebar, with a brass wire pin at one end. This makes it easier to align; the Seep is prone to not work properly due to poor alignment. Total cost of parts is not much, easily sourced, and about 10-15 minutes to construct (easily). Also I have a couple of simple jigs (basically coffee stirrers) that I use when fitting. If I don't post within a week, remind me! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 All or most point motors require vertical alighnment to the switching arm (or whatever it is called) to achieve a clean throw... I wondered where I was going wrong! Actually, switch motors I don't have a problem with right now, but am interested in the Seep because of the integral switch. Stewart isn't the first person I've read saying that the polarity switch is rubbish. I'm looking forward to reading his 'solution'. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted June 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2015 Never had a problem with the switch on SEEP motors. Just needs centering! All my frogs are wired up to the built in switch, never any problems! Easiest way to fix a SEEP motor in place is to set it up with blu tac, checking that you're happy and mark the position of the motor with a pen then reattach with the hot glue gun aligning with the pen marks. Lastly snip off the excess operating wire with wire snips. Shaun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 As promised I've uploaded my How-to, in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100686-my-seep-point-motor-baseplate/?p=1939340 Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 My personal approach as follows. Solder flying leads to the motor on the workbench. 8mm hole under the tie bar. Centre the point blades using two cocktail sticks. The taper allows fine adjustment. Apply double sided tape to the point motor. Centre it's pin with a Seepeggy. Stick the pin through the tie bar and stick the motor to the underside of the baseboard Cocktail sticks and Seepeggy out. Apply power and check operation. When you are confident it's working reliably drill through the mounting holes and fit screws. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I had a lot of trouble with the points not clicking over with the point motor despite them working well by hand. . I got really fed up after all my time and effort fitting the points. Then I read that you can ease the points springs . You suggested doing that at the start. I would do that first.. I did and all my problems disappeared. Also as suggested , a CDU is a good idea, I have this problem as well, but I am using surface mounted motor - PL11 - (there is a brace on the baseboard right where an under board motor needs to be. Don't tell me to drill through the brace as it is 49mm x 24mm on the vertical - in other words I would have to drill through 49mm). The switch throws one way OK, but WON'T throw back the other. how do I ease the point springs? I'm going to be running under DCC, but can't afford to spend a lot of money, being on the pension. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted July 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2015 I have this problem as well, but I am using surface mounted motor - PL11 - (there is a brace on the baseboard right where an under board motor needs to be. Don't tell me to drill through the brace as it is 49mm x 24mm on the vertical - in other words I would have to drill through 49mm). The switch throws one way OK, but WON'T throw back the other. how do I ease the point springs? I'm going to be running under DCC, but can't afford to spend a lot of money, being on the pension. I doubt whether its the point spring. Does the motor appear to try to change? The diagram is here. http://www.peco-uk.com/imageselector/Files/Instruction%20sheets/PL-11%20Instructions.pdf You need to double check the wiring. Is it wired the same as the diagram right at the foot, with the green going to one side of a switch? If so, does swapping the red & black wires, make any difference - perhaps it will work the other side now? OK, I'll wait for answers before further questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 You need to double check the wiring. Is it wired the same as the diagram right at the foot, with the green going to one side of a switch? If so, does swapping the red & black wires, make any difference - perhaps it will work the other side now? OK, I'll wait for answers before further questions. Hi Kevin, Been out to granddaughter's 6th birthday and only got home about an hour ago, so will have a look tomorrow. I will forward my wiring diagram tomorrow. I have my switches on a panel - not using peco switch - I have dpdt centre off switch. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hi Kevin,Problem solved!!! It was the wiring. What threw me was that I have a Peco underboard switch motor and that is working correctly - wired, from switch to motor - as Red to Red, Green to Green & Black to Black. BUT the side mounted is Red to Red, Green to Black & Black to Green. I am waiting on a Hornby side mounted to arrive so will keep that in mind. I have some more Peco sides to purchase so shouldn't have any problems with those - I hope!I won't worry about sending my wiring diagram now!!Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted July 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hi Kevin, Problem solved!!! It was the wiring. What threw me was that I have a Peco underboard switch motor and that is working correctly - wired, from switch to motor - as Red to Red, Green to Green & Black to Black. BUT the side mounted is Red to Red, Green to Black & Black to Green. I am waiting on a Hornby side mounted to arrive so will keep that in mind. I have some more Peco sides to purchase so shouldn't have any problems with those - I hope! I won't worry about sending my wiring diagram now!! Thanks again. Excellent. I wondered if that was the case. I remember reading somewhere that the wiring colour scheme was partly reversed on some models. While I'm not familiar with either of those side mounted point motors, the principle is the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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