A3 Book Law

[Ian Hargrave]

Oddly I picked up a Brown Jack for 100 quid in Hamley's on Friday. Thought was a good price. Quite odd that they have just received in stock though. Assume is a receivership or similar return. Yet to run it- on list for this week

Possibly from the late-lamented ModelZone .

[Ian Hargrave]

Times have changed. £150 today, I remember me paying only £70 for Great Northern 10 years ago. This still remains the best running loco in my fleet, probably more by fluk than design as all my other Hornby locos using the same mech, do not even come close to it.

In all honesty,this is not my experience with the apple green A1/3 models. There is little difference in performance.All three are excellent performers. For those bemoaning a falling off in q.c.,a liitle reminder......my Flying Fox (R 2549....Sanda Kan) first had to have its incorrectly fitted running gear disentangled before it would run. That was a common failing over several Hornby models a few years ago.Other offenders included a Clan and Bulleid 92 Squadron.We now tend to look at those days through rose tinted spectacles.In truth there have always been issues with Hornby qc.

[Bon Accord]

In all honesty,this is not my experience with the apple green A1/3 models. There is little difference in performance.All three are excellent performers. For those bemoaning a falling off in q.c.,a liitle reminder......my Flying Fox (R 2549....Sanda Kan) first had to have its incorrectly fitted running gear disentangled before it would run. That was a common failing over several Hornby models a few years ago.Other offenders included a Clan and Bulleid 92 Squadron.We now tend to look at those days through rose tinted spectacles.In truth there have always been issues with Hornby qc.

 

But nothing like the issues we have today, and have experienced over the past few years.

[toboldlygo]

In all honesty,this is not my experience with the apple green A1/3 models. There is little difference in performance.All three are excellent performers. For those bemoaning a falling off in q.c.,a liitle reminder......my Flying Fox (R 2549....Sanda Kan) first had to have its incorrectly fitted running gear disentangled before it would run. That was a common failing over several Hornby models a few years ago.Other offenders included a Clan and Bulleid 92 Squadron.We now tend to look at those days through rose tinted spectacles.In truth there have always been issues with Hornby qc.

 

The running gear used to tangle itself up, usually down to being picked up by it

 

I think tool wear has a part to play with the fit and finish on the A3's, I currently have 3 different A3's from 3 different production runs, lurking within reach - The White Knight, Galtee More and what was Coronach (actually 2 of them). I've found the Coronach's have needed a fair bit of corrective work compared to the earlier releases.

[micklner]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R3132-Hornby-OO-HO-A3-LNER-4-6-2-Book-Law-2599-with-Real-Coal-amp-Weathered-by-TMC-/252045990478?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255

[DougN]

I'm not convinced by the weathering! Brown around the safety valves? The windows would have been kept clean though also the brown on the ash pan leaver... Now I have not weathered anything that is worth while but I the reason is when I see photos like this it doesn't not convince me to have a try!

Does any one have a good weathered A3 photo?

[pom-pom]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R3132-Hornby-OO-HO-A3-LNER-4-6-2-Book-Law-2599-with-Real-Coal-amp-Weathered-by-TMC-/252045990478?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255

 

Don't get it... what's the point in weathering something that's wrong? I've always thought this process was a final process after everything else had been sorted.

 

That price makes me wince considering the above. Actually, it just makes me wince full-stop.. ;-)

[pom-pom]

I'm not convinced by the weathering! Brown around the safety valves? The windows would have been kept clean though also the brown on the ash pan leaver... Now I have not weathered anything that is worth while but I the reason is when I see photos like this it doesn't not convince me to have a try!

Does any one have a good weathered A3 photo?

 

I find that all TMC weathering looks the same whether applied to a loco/wagon/etc. They have their trusted formula for the process it seems. Looks too 'airbrushed' to me.

[micklner]

Smokebox handrail at a nice angle in the picture , glad you all have the same opinion of TMC blow overs !!

[pom-pom]

Smokebox handrail at a nice angle in the picture , glad you all have the same opinion of TMC blow overs !!

 

"Blow over" is an apt description! Smokebox handrail - do you mean the upside-down curve of the handrail across the face of the smokebox Mick? Is it not supposed to be like that? Damn... another thing to pull off, sort out, reattach and paint!

[60027Merlin]

I'm not convinced by the weathering! Brown around the safety valves? The windows would have been kept clean though also the brown on the ash pan leaver... Now I have not weathered anything that is worth while but I the reason is when I see photos like this it doesn't not convince me to have a try!

Does any one have a good weathered A3 photo?

 

Here's a few passable shots of A3s I did for friends a couple of years ago but in B. R. green. Whether the finish suits is always a shot in the dark as weathering/beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I cannot recall which Hornby B.R. locos they were originally. 

 

Perhaps this will persuade you to give it a try as if it doesn't work out you can go over it again!!

 

[pom-pom]

Here's a few passable shots of A3s I did for friends a couple of years ago but in B. R. green. Whether the finish suits is always a shot in the dark as weathering/beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I cannot recall which Hornby B.R. locos they were originally. 

 

Perhaps this will persuade you to give it a try as if it doesn't work out you can go over it again!!

 

A3 60085 Manna.JPG

A3 60087 Blenheim 2nd. model.JPG

A3 60087 Blenheim.JPG

 

I really like what you've done below the frames, dark, oily and well maintained - it's very convincing. The kind of rail grime you emulate is just that but on the TMC A3 it seems rather more 'wet lorries on the M1 weathering', looks like it's splashed through a few muddy puddles.

[Bernard Lamb]

Here's a few passable shots of A3s I did for friends a couple of years ago but in B. R. green.

How much is down to your work and how much is down to the camera view point, I would not like to say. However the first shot to me does have an air of mass to it. The wheels and valve gear do look as though they are there to do a job.

Brilliant stuff, it certainly does convey the impression of a late period A3.

Bernard

[DougN]

Umm here it was just me that the TMC weathering wasn't right. As pretty much every one has agreed... I seem to be with the majority.

 

Merl in as others have said your weathering looks great. The running gear is spot on... Greasy dirty and looking purposeful.

 

I find the weathering matchs the end of BR period where everything seems to be run down... I'm looking for a light weathered LNER livery. I have seem some A4's in the light weathered but rarely an A3

[micklner]

Umm here it was just me that the TMC weathering wasn't right. As pretty much every one has agreed... I seem to be with the majority.

 

Merl in as others have said your weathering looks great. The running gear is spot on... Greasy dirty and looking purposeful.

 

I find the weathering matchs the end of BR period where everything seems to be run down... I'm looking for a light weathered LNER livery. I have seem some A4's in the light weathered but rarely an A3

Tom Foster who used to be on here has done some Green A3's on his layout cant remember the name. I weather Goods engines but cant bring myself to weather Pacifics far to beautiful to cover in muck !!

[teaky]

Tom (2750) stopped posting on here last September.  No idea why.  He still posts elsewhere.

 

Here's a link to his thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31787-2750s-workbench-lner-1935-1939/page-18

 

It is a great pity he left RMweb.  His work is first class.  Some of the most subtle weathering I have ever seen.

 

Some of his work crops up on Tony Wright's thread too from time to time.

[Hilux5972]

Some seriously poor build quality in this model.

[Hilux5972]

Tom (2750) stopped posting on here last September. No idea why. He still posts elsewhere.

 

Here's a link to his thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31787-2750s-workbench-lner-1935-1939/page-18

 

It is a great pity he left RMweb. His work is first class. Some of the most subtle weathering I have ever seen.

 

Some of his work crops up on Tony Wright's thread too from time to time.

I believe his account was removed by the Admin.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Andy Y
Admin - the a/c deletion was at the member's request

[teaky]

I believe his account was removed by the Admin.

Yes, but it may have been at his request.  I certainly don't recall him being one of those offensive types who get booted off.  Still, that's academic, it's a pity he's gone.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Andy Y
Admin - the a/c deletion was at the member's request

[Black 5 Bear]

Some seriously poor build quality in this model.

Unfortunately with Hornby, if you get a lemon it really is a lemon and should be returned for replacement. It depends very much on which factory was the source of supply for the specific item. Hopefully their QC will improve in the near future...... 

[micklner]

Unfortunately with Hornby, if you get a lemon it really is a lemon and should be returned for replacement. It depends very much on which factory was the source of supply for the specific item. Hopefully their QC will improve in the near future...... 

     Sadly Carrot dangling by Hornby.

     Hornby know that there aren't any replacements? and therefore they work on the fact that most people will put up with shoddy products and do their own repairs etc.  Even more sadder is that they seem to be getting away with it and they still sell out. Bachmann seem better, withdrawing items when wrong (ignoring the Hall disaster) and sorting them out. Have Hornby ever done the same?

    As said hopefully Hornby will up the game with the new factories future products , unless customers complain not a lot will change !

[Tony Wright]

Tom (2750) stopped posting on here last September.  No idea why.  He still posts elsewhere.

 

Here's a link to his thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31787-2750s-workbench-lner-1935-1939/page-18

 

It is a great pity he left RMweb.  His work is first class.  Some of the most subtle weathering I have ever seen.

 

Some of his work crops up on Tony Wright's thread too from time to time.

Tom Foster's weathering is amongst the very best I've seen - realistic, subtle, not overstated and beautifully-natural. I'm lucky in that he's weathered some locos for me (I've helped him in his chassis-making in return). 

 

Examples of his peerless weathering work are shown below, running on Grantham and Little Bytham. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just about all proprietary weathering I've encountered is no more than a blow-over with dirty thinners - usually around the frames, resulting in a most-unrealistic brown stain. Tom's work is much more realistic - and for those interested, I believe he'll be at the Pickering Show demonstrating his techniques. So will I. 

[pom-pom]

Some seriously poor build quality in this model.

 

Beggars belief doesn't it. The tender body is attached by a weak plastic lug at the front and this looks to be either snapped off or not located properly (not that that stopped the assembly workers screwing the rear end down good and hard). If you remove the coupling from its socket at the rear of the tender you can gain access to this screw. Is the frame straight? It doesn't look like it.

 

This is one that probably even I'd send back with a vitriolic strongly-worded letter but I appreciate the massive inconvenience being out in New Zealand.

[pom-pom]

Tom Foster's weathering is amongst the very best I've seen - realistic, subtle, not overstated and beautifully-natural. I'm lucky in that he's weathered some locos for me (I've helped him in his chassis-making in return). 

 

Examples of his peerless weathering work are shown below, running on Grantham and Little Bytham. 

 

056.jpg

 

4479 03.jpg

 

Grantham 3 03.jpg

 

Little Bytham Update 01.jpg

 

Little Bytham Update 05.jpg

 

Little Bytham Update 06.jpg

 

Just about all proprietary weathering I've encountered is no more than a blow-over with dirty thinners - usually around the frames, resulting in a most-unrealistic brown stain. Tom's work is much more realistic - and for those interested, I believe he'll be at the Pickering Show demonstrating his techniques. So will I. 

 

Thanks for sharing these photos - I'm inspired and can only aspire to such realism! The permanent way is also very impressive. You set your attainment bar very high.

 

Nick

[Les1952]

Not having a Vernier caliper to hand I've taken a wheel off each, the A3 and the P2 and photographed them alongside a rule... an approximation I'm afraid but to me the wheelsets look of the same diameter. I understand that both the A3 and the P2 had tender wheels of 4'2" diameter which corresponds approximately with the 16.5mm I can see. So if the tender sits too high it must surely be the frame at some location.

 

Did all A3s have spoked wheels or was this mentioned earlier regarding 2599 only and in a particular timeframe? It's good to see that we can just pop in the green spoked P2 wheelsets... but not so good to see that they cost 12 quid when Hornby could easily have put the P2 ones in. I guess the disc wheels are the self-same ones that are in the A4s?

 

I have just been reading up on A4 tenders in the RCTS Green Guide and can now give (I think) the answer to what sort of wheels BOOK LAW's tender should have.

 

The 1928 Corridoor tenders (11 of them) were built with spoked wheels.  When they were refurbished in 1936 to go onto A4s they exchanged wheelsets with 1931/1934 "new type" tenders attached to A3s, giving those tenders spoked wheels instead of the disc wheels previously attached.  The RCTS Green Guide does not mention which A3s had the tenders concerned, but it was the majority of those with such tenders, if not all (and may also have included the Raven A2s).

 

SO, looking at the cab cut-out, BOOK LAW is pre-1936, so its tender would have disc wheels.  If the cab had had the later cutout then it would have disc wheels for a few months THEN spoked.

 

The model is correct in its tender wheels, which SHOULD be A4 wheels as they were the same wheels on 11 of the prototypes....

 

On worksplate position, some A3 boilers had the plate above the steampipe, others aft of it.  Looking at photos, locos changed worksplate position when they changed boilers at times. Presumably the plate was refitted to the holes that were already there.  Again a 1937 pic will not tell what was right in 1935 on any given loco, nor will one from 1934 since A3s rarely ran more than 2 years with the same boiler.  In this respect the model may or may not be correct.

 

Les

 

Note the section on the NT tender wheels is contained under A4 tenders, the corresponding section under A3 does not mention it, though it talks about brakewheel and scoop control positions on the New type tenders attached to A3s.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Les1952