Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[ArthurK]

Ah, so it is. It just stands out in the photo, the shadow showing it up. I'm sure it will dissappear when painted.

 

The flap is on the outside of the splasher. I provide a  half etched overlay to represent it. There is an etched outline to aid its location. This is what you can see on Mike's build.

 

ArthurK

[Porcy Mane]

That firebox is looooong. I don't know how the crew ever had enough space in the cab to work in. 

 

If the cab of the Q7 is big enough to hold a Model Railway exhibition in:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97233-darlington-exhibition-remember-us/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2012283

and

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97233-darlington-exhibition-remember-us/&do=findComment&comment=2009254

 

I'm sure there was enough room for the crew to do their stuff in.

 

P

Edited January 29, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

A  little more progress on the D20 with the cab interior folded up and then soldered, though not yet fixed into the loco body, and with the cab roof rolled and assembled. I use the boiler roller to roll the cab roof with the setting at a comparatively large diameter. Both sections of the cab roof are rolled separately, though on exactly the same setting of the rollers. Any slight discrepancies can be adjusted when the two sections of the cab roof are clamped and soldered together.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

At this point I decided to turn the attention to the chassis. The thinking here was that any attention necessary to the footplate, as a result of checking against the chassis, would be easier to achieve without the boiler being fitted.

 

This kit, as per the prototype, does not have cut outs for the bogie wheels at the front of the mainframes, but relies on the mainframe spacing being pinched in at the front, from a position level with the rear of the rearmost bogie wheel. For P4 this chassis should traverse a minimum radius of around 3' 6" without the bogie wheels fouling which, as my minimum radius is five and a half feet, is more than adequate.

 

First job was to add the rows of bolts to the front of each mainframe, using pieces of .5 mm wire soldered in from the rear of the frame. These were then dressed off on the front of the frames with a fine file, using a 20 thou spacer to achieve consistency of the protrusion of these bolts.

 

The coupling rods were then assembled and used to set up the chassis jig. High Level axleguides and axleboxes have been fitted - normal on the rear wheelset and spacesavers on the front set to facilitate the gearbox fitting between the axleboxes. Both compensating beams have been fitted and checked for free movement.

 

The front bogie, which is fully equalised, has also been assembled and wheeled. I've used Gibson 3' 11" bogie wheels - the prototype had 4' 0" bogie wheels - which will just fit below the footplate without touching the footplate. For EM and OO it may be necessary to use a slightly smaller diameter bogie wheel due to the deeper flanges on those wheels.

 

This kit, as with all of Arthur's kits, contains three separate sets of mainframe spacers - P4, EM and OO. So having used the P4 spacers, on this build, could I adapt the EM spacers to update the original D20 test chassis, built back in 2011 and which didn't have the cylinder block rear and motion plate on the etch?

 

I cut out the two EM spacers which form the rear of the cylinder block and the motion plate. These spacers are around .75 - 1.0 mm narrower than their P4 equivalents, so I sawed them both, vertically in two, using a very fine piercing saw, and then inserted a strip of .018" nickel silver .75 mm wide, after which these spacers were then soldered back together. These 'reworked' spacers were then fitted into the first of these D20 chassis'.

 

So now a photograph to ensure that all looks ok before proceeding.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

One of those very contrived photos with the test build of the D20 and the current 'in progress' build. Since the test build was done, Arthur has added a number of details to the design and has produced the full set of castings for this model, so this test build is now being brought in line with the production version, prior to both locos being finished and painted.

 

The one on the left will be 62378 of Selby shed (in 1950) which was a regular visitor to Hull on passenger trains from Selby. I still have to build a 3940 gallon tender for each of these locos, which will be done after both locos have been fully completed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

That's better, with the smokebox former folded up and soldered so that the boiler now sits level. The ashpan has also been assembled and fitted under the firebox. Nothing fixed on the boiler/smokebox yet, just checking fit and levels.

 

Since the test build was done we discovered that the dome was in the wrong position (corrected on the production versions of the kit!) so had to be moved. Unfortunately, the original location bisected one of the boiler bands, the third one - the correct position being midway between the second and third boiler bands as it now is. So the third boiler band had to have a new piece 'spliced' into it where the dome had been. It's just visible if you look really hard - so please don't!!!

 

Arthur has produced some lovely kits and this one is right up there with the best of 'em! Classic Victorian design and absolutely pure North Eastern.

 

Isn't burnished brass a great colour?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

The first layer of the smokebox wrapper has been rolled and then the two reverse bends made, using a former of suitable diameter (around 6mm diameter should provide the correct radius on the reverse curves). It is essential to ensure that these reverse curves are both correct radii and at the correct height before soldering the wrapper to the smokebox former, this by just repeatedly checking against the smokebox former and adjusting until it is right.

 

Once soldered, then the whole thing is cleaned up with very fine emery and the glass fibre brush. Before I attach the second layer of the wrapper and the smokebox front overlay, then the part completed smokebox is screwed to the boiler and all levels checked, using the digital camera on macro mode. This device is completely objective and has no propensity to disguise or fail to notice errors or inaccuracies!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Horsetan]

The first layer of the smokebox wrapper has been rolled and then the two reverse bends made, using a former of suitable diameter (around 6mm diameter should provide the correct radius on the reverse curves). It is essential to ensure that these reverse curves are both correct radii and at the correct height before soldering the wrapper to the smokebox former, this by just checking against the smokebox former and adjusting until it is right.....

 

I had the very devil of a job doing the reverse curves on my GNR(I) "S" class, even with a rolling mill!

[mikemeg]

I had the very devil of a job doing the reverse curves on my GNR(I) "S" class, even with a rolling mill!

 

Having now made quite a few of these North Eastern smokeboxes, with their reverse curves, the process I adopt (which may not be the best, admittedly) is to first roll the entire wrapper into a cylinder of the same diameter as the smokebox front, just as with the boiler wrapper. Once rolled, then the bottom portions of the rolled cylinder are gradually straightened out using very fine, long nosed pliers (long enough for the jaws to span the full width of the wrapper) and just teasing the metal back to straight.

 

On Arthur's kits the smokebox wrapper has bend lines, on the inside,  to assist with forming and showing exactly where the reverse bends should be formed. This straightening should be done slowly - on this smokebox wrapper this process took around fifteen minutes to get both sides straight.

 

Once the bottom portions of the wrapper are straight, then the appropriate diameter former ( in this case the barrel of a pin chuck, some 6 mm diameter) can be laid on the straight section, at the point where the reverse curve is to be formed, and the metal teased down around the former - I use the end of a steel rule to do this teasing. Once the reverse curves are formed, then they can be checked against the smokebox front profile and adjusted until correct.

 

The key thing with these reverse curves is to straighten the bottom portions of the smokebox wrapper before attempting to form the reverse curves.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited February 5, 2016 by mikemeg

[Horsetan]

Having now made quite a few of these North Eastern smokeboxes, with their reverse curves, the process I adopt (which may not be the best, admittedly) is to first roll the entire wrapper into a cylinder of the same diameter as the smokebox front, just as with the boiler wrapper. Once rolled, then the bottom portions of the rolled cylinder are gradually straightened out using very fine, long nosed pliers (long enough for the jaws to span the full width of the wrapper) and just teasing the metal back to straight......

 

...Once the bottom portions of the wrapper are straight, then the appropriate diameter former ( in this case the barrel of a pin chuck, some 6 mm diameter) can be laid on the straight section, at the point where the reverse curve is to be formed, and the metal teased down around the former - I use the end of a steel rule to do this teasing. Once the reverse curves are formed, then they can be checked against the smokebox front profile and adjusted until correct.

 

The key thing with these reverse curves is to straighten the bottom portions of the smokebox wrapper before attempting to form the reverse curves.....

 

This was what I did - it was getting the reverse curves to coincide at the same level which took the best part of two nights 

[mikemeg]

 ROLLING SMOKEBOX WRAPPERS

 

 

This was what I did - it was getting the reverse curves to coincide at the same level which took the best part of two nights 

 

I took these photos of the second layer of the smokebox wrapper (this layer is half etched so much easier to roll and much easier to straighten and then form the reverse curves) as it was rolled and the reverse curves formed. Note in photo 4 that both layers are held in place by a suitably sized broach, located in the chimney hole in both layers.

 

Without that datum point to establish the centre, and to hold both layers to that centre, it would be a little more difficult but would have to be measured and marked on both sides, from the lower edges of each end of the wrapper or you could tack solder the wrapper, centrally,  to the smokebox front, establish the level of each of the reverse curves, just forcing the metal against the smokebox front, then remove the wrapper and finish off the reverse curves.

 

The key, here, seems to be finding a way of holding the wrapper centrally on the smokebox former/smokebox front to establish the position of the reverse curves. Apologies if this is stating the obvious!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[DougN]

I agree with Mike here. I also find that some of the NER loco's help out by having splashes in the same plane! The other trick I have used is to lightly clamp with soft jaws the base of the smoke box pulling the wrapper tight to the front edge, and soldering. Then repeating slowly on the back edge while pulling and being brutal to pull every thing tight to the rear of the smokebox. I also find the rear is more forgiving as less can be seen.

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS D20

 

After an interlude spent 'down under' - and no I haven't been entombed underground - back to the D20's.

 

As I add details to the production version so I add that same detail to the test build if it was absent on the build as initially done. This is true of the access hatch on the right hand splasher so a copy of this part was filed up from plasticard and added to the test build. I'll have the same exercise to do with the internal slide bars and motion.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[DougN]

After an interlude spent 'down under' - and no I haven't been entombed underground - 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

What and you decided not to drop in? Weather was nice though. 

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

What and you decided not to drop in? Weather was nice though. 

 

The weather was incredible, as was the country and its people. Just a 'trip of a lifetime'.

 

Back on the D20's, I was caused to look at a very old GA drawing - appearing in the March 1901 edition of The Engineer - a copy of which was sent to me by my old mate Mick Nicholson. This drawing clearly shows the arrangement of the inside motion but it also shows the presence of pot lubricators on the slide bars; there were three such lubricators on each of the four topmost slidebars. These are clearly visible through the footplate so I decided to add them to the models.

 

The top four slidebars were therefore made from 40mm (1 mm) plasticard, cut to length and fitted to the tops of the cylinders and the motion plate. This allows the very tiny pot lubricators to be turned up in the pinchuck, from 1.25 mm diameter plastic rod, cut to around 1.25 mm high and fitted to the slide bars. It's a hell of a fiddly job but, given the prominent position of these slidebars, hopefully worth it. Dummy crossheads and connecting rods are also fitted, though these stop short of the front crank axle as the drive train sits on that same axle.

 

Any 'hawk eyed' readers may also notice that the throw, on those Gibson 26.6 mm driving wheels, has been reduced from 13" to 11" in line with North Eastern inside cylinder practice of the time.

 

The photo shows chassis number 1 part way through this operation. The front bogie is too far back in the photo, though just resting under the chassis and not yet fixed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Horsetan]

What and you decided not to drop in? Weather was nice though. 

 

To be fair, he may not have been in the same region!

 

VIC's small in the Australian scheme of things, but still massive in the context of the distances that Britons are used to! One month is not enough to explore the whole of VIC. I think you'll remember I looked at the distance between Melbourne and Sydney, and quickly dropping any thought that I could drive to Sydney in one day.

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

The first of the two chassis now has all twelve pot lubricators, the slide bars/crossheads/con rods fitted and painted 'shiny steel'. I still have the weighshaft, counter weights and drop links to fit and the Stephensons gear eccentrics to make but that's a fairly simple task. Then the second chassis must be done in exactly the same way.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited January 12, 2018 by mikemeg

[Class O]

The first of the two chassis now has all twelve pot lubricators, the slide bars/crossheads/con rods fitted and painted 'shiny steel'. I still have the weighshaft, counter weights and drop links to fit and the Stephensons gear eccentrics to make but that's a fairly simple task. Then the second chassis must be done in exactly the same way.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Did they keep those oil pots after superheating and mechanical lubricators oiled the slidebars ?

[mikemeg]

Did they keep those oil pots after superheating and mechanical lubricators oiled the slidebars ?

 

Good question, and one I can't answer though I did wonder whether the mechanical lubricators might have replaced the oil pots. Certainly the preserved D17, which was superheated, does still have oil pots on the slide bars.

 

As far as I understand, wet steam (i.e. saturated steam) was/is a natural lubricant but superheated steam (500 - 600 degrees Fahrenheit, or even higher temperatures) is dryer and is not, so that the natural cylinder and piston valve lubrication of saturated steam needed to be created by the addition of a small amount of oil into the cylinders with the superheated steam, which was the job of the mechanical lubricators.

 

So the question is did the mechanical lubricators oil the slidebars, as you say?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 8, 2016 by mikemeg

[Blandford1969]

I think that the mechanical lubricator would be feeding the axleboxes and or cylinders (if two were fitted) and would expect the pots to have remained, ultimately they are lubricating the crossheads and are not subject to the heat of the superheated steam. Most crossheads have a oil reservoir in them, which works well on outside cylindered engines. Cylinder oil is able to cope with the higher temperatures to maintain lubrication with the valves and pistons.

 

A drawing of the D20/2 which is superheated and fitted with lubricators, appears to show the pots too.

 

Lovely engine by the way.

[ArthurK]

I think that the mechanical lubricator would be feeding the axleboxes and or cylinders (if two were fitted) and would expect the pots to have remained, ultimately they are lubricating the crossheads and are not subject to the heat of the superheated steam. Most crossheads have a oil reservoir in them, which works well on outside cylindered engines. Cylinder oil is able to cope with the higher temperatures to maintain lubrication with the valves and pistons.

 

A drawing of the D20/2 which is superheated and fitted with lubricators, appears to show the pots too.

 

Lovely engine by the way.

 

Blandford

You are right the mechanical lubricator did not feed oil to the slide bars. They used the oil pots (3 on each) on the upper slide bars for that. The only areas to get oil via mechanical lubrication were the pistons and valves. Other NER 4-4-0s used a similar arrangement.

As a general rule only NER superheated engines had any form of mechanical lubrication. The horn blocks were lubricated from oil boxes which were usually fitted near to axles being lubricated.

 

Do you have a drawing reference for the D20/2? So far I haven't found one.

 

ArthurK

[Class O]

Blandford

You are right the mechanical lubricator did not feed oil to the slide bars. They used the oil pots (3 on each) on the upper slide bars for that. The only areas to get oil via mechanical lubrication were the pistons and valves. Other NER 4-4-0s used a similar arrangement.

As a general rule only NER superheated engines had any form of mechanical lubrication. The horn blocks were lubricated from oil boxes which were usually fitted near to axles being lubricated.

 

Do you have a drawing reference for the D20/2? So far I haven't found one.

 

ArthurK

I wish dad was still here, he kept me right about loco matters, it was like having an endless source of information.......

[Blandford1969]

Arthur,

 

It took me a while to find one too, I will check and let you know.

 

Duncan

Edited March 8, 2016 by Blandford1969

[mikemeg]

Blandford

You are right the mechanical lubricator did not feed oil to the slide bars. They used the oil pots (3 on each) on the upper slide bars for that. The only areas to get oil via mechanical lubrication were the pistons and valves. Other NER 4-4-0s used a similar arrangement.

As a general rule only NER superheated engines had any form of mechanical lubrication. The horn blocks were lubricated from oil boxes which were usually fitted near to axles being lubricated.

 

Do you have a drawing reference for the D20/2? So far I haven't found one.

 

ArthurK

 

Blandford,

 

Firstly thanks to you and to Arthur for clarifying the 'pots or no pots' question. The lubricating pots can thus remain and be proliferated on the second chassis.

 

Do you, by any chance, have a drawing or drawing reference for the D20 tender rebuilds? These were ten D20 tenders which had their tanks replaced (around 1949 -1951, I believe) by a new tender tank which resembled - though was not identical to - the LNER Group Standard 3500 gallon tender? These tender rebuilds did, however, retain their North Eastern frames, springs, axleboxes, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited March 8, 2016 by mikemeg

[Blandford1969]

Mike,

 

Sadly I don't have anything on the rebuilt tenders. The drawing I got of the D20/2 only had part of the tender and it looks like it is just the raving on the top which was different.

 

I've looked for the drawing this evening, which I used to make an 8mm drawing, but cant find the blessed thing at the moment. Will let you know when I find it.

 

Duncan

Edited March 8, 2016 by Blandford1969