Fourdees' Glyn Valley Locos - A Good Buy?

[JMJR1000]

Hello again all, I've been looking at RTR model to buy for my future 009 layout, and having done some research around, I'm impressed by Fourdees offerings.

 

I have a particular interest in the Glyn Valley locos, but I'd like to be sure whether or not their a good buy by asking you folks what's your opinion on them.

 

Are they good runners? What's the overall quality of them, would you recommend them? Be helpful if any of you can give your say on them, as I'm serious considering getting one or two of them...

 

Thanks.

[Bill]

I picked up "Glyn" in black - later years - at the local Post Office today..

So where to begin?

 

It was purchased direct from FourDees who do not yet have to charge VAT so might be your best source for a Glyn valley Tramway model.

 

http://www.fourdees.co.uk/Catalogue_Models.php

 

They need to be unpacked very carefully from the Box. (Unpacking was nearly the end of the adventure!). The model had somehow unexpectedly become attracted to the top piece of foam. So instead of staying in the box as one would expect - it flew out when the foam was removed!

 

 

The next step was to plonk it one the track and see if it worked.

Well it did and the Kato mechanism is capable of way beyond prototypical speed; it zoomed off.

It needed some running in, they recommend half and hour in each direction at from medium to high speed.

This ironed out the wrinkles in the mechanism and when finished it proves to be a smooth runner.

It won't creep but it's excellent at slow speeds, nonetheless.

It certainly looks the part and comes with a driver and fireman on board. (The roof of the cab comes unattached for ease of access .)

 

 

The body is very finely striated as it was printed rather than moulded.

It is not noticeable to the eye but the camera picks it up.

 

 

Now the only rolling stock I so far have are two L&B coaches, a van and an open wagon, which it pulled with ease.

A slightly annoying factor is the couplings are slightly low compared to the Peco rolling stock.

 

 

But it pushed and pulled this small train with ease.

With no uncoupling or derailment over points and the odd imperfection in the hastily and crudely laid track.

The track being a mix of 'N' and H0e.

It really looks the part when coupled up to the L&B coaches - they seem made for each other.

The cost was on the high side at £150.00 including postage - but it was something I gladly paid.

Overall I am very pleased with it and it looks and performs well.

It really is a lovely little model..

 

 

(But that is probably in the eye of the beholder!)

Others might be much fussier than I and count the missing rivets - so to speak.

For me it makes for an excellent 'stand-in' until the Heljan L&B Loco appears on the scene, and who knows when that might be...

Also.

 

 

Together with an instruction leaflet, they included a small and informative booklet, that includes track layouts for Chirk etc., in the box with the model.

 

I hope this short review is of some small use...

 

P.S. Rails of Sheffield also sell them but you will have to pay the VAT..

[Jeff Smith]

Bill - I'm glad to have moved to O-16.5.  My PECO/Branchlines was actually considerably cheaper......of course I had to build it though......!

[pete_mcfarlane]

£150 doesn't seem that high for a limited run loco like this. The last couple of RTR steam locos from Hornby or Bachmann that I've bought have been around the £100 mark. 

[mjcampbell]

I don't have one of these, but I have seen one close up, and they are very finely detailed and well finished models. The one I saw was lined green and the livery was well done. Yes some lines are visible from the 3d print, but they are much more obvious in the photo than to the naked eye.

 

The kato chassis is rather fast, it's a cheap unit (you can pick them up for £15 or so), and they are popular with 009 modellers as they are versatile. Add a little lead inside the body (there's plenty of space) which takes them, and with a good controller and clean wheels reasonable slow speed running is possible. If you have issues check the pickups, I had one which ran badly but carefully resetting the pickups solved it.

 

Of course there is the alternative of the PECO white metal kit which can be built on the same kato chassis, or the much better Halling verso unit, or indeed anything that fits! But even as a relatively basic kit it involves some effort to build well, detail and finish, in comparison the fourdees model looks reasonable value.

[Chubber]

I am posting this from the viewpoint of a person who is to model locomotive building what the late Cyril Smith was to hang-gliding, and whose total efforts in white metal modelling both ended up in the dustbin, furthermore there is room on the head of a pin beside the sum written total of my knowledge of 3D printing...

 

BUT.....

 

Am I being too fussy when I say I do not care for the 'finish' evident on these models?

 

[ e.g.  http://www.fourdees.co.uk/atlas.php  which needs copying and pasting into your browser ]

 

The design, appearance and detailing are all impressive, but in some pictures the finish is rough, or is it me?

 

Perhaps there is a touch of the 'Emperor's new clothes' in the appraisals by those who have bought them?

 

 

Curious,

 

Doug

[Kenton]

 

Am I being too fussy when I say I do not care for the 'finish' evident on these models?

 

I know what you mean, and I do not think the photos on their web site do them any credit and look like pre-production models.

 

But they are RTR which has a big appeal to many (not so myself of course as the Peco kit holds no fear - other than painting it).

 

I do not think they will have problems finding buyers (even with the somewhat specialist and eccentric 009 market) even at that price (why do we always thing smaller should be cheaper?) and I doubt if they will remain VAT exempt for very long (and should be very careful in their accounting.

 

Sure reviews are going to be in the eyes of the beholder but it is good to see something on here about this and I'm sure others will add as they come into possession of one.

[Chubber]

 

But they are RTR which has a big appeal to many (not so myself of course as the Peco kit holds no fear - other than painting it).

 

 

 

Me too. I'd rather make you a window frame or a front door than paint one, again, it's a perception of quality being equated to finish. In the model marine steam engine world there used to be  an expresion that inferred more care was necesary with finish... something was 'highly polished, but deeply scratched..'

 

Doug

[mcowgill]

I've attached some photos of a couple of my Fourdees Glyn Valley locos.  Remember that these locos are small (67 and 63.5mm over end skirts), the photos show them far larger than life.

 

The rain outside means I can't take photos of them in daylight, I might have a go and see if that helps, the flash from the camera doesn't do them any favours, picking out every imperfection (and plenty of dust on Glyn which is currently being used to test the 009 layout).

 

I note on the photos that the tank vents appear to pock marked and rough, I can't see that with the naked eye, they look no different to injection moulded fittings at normal viewing distances.

 

They are produced by 3D printing, although I believe they are an assembled kit meaning that the manufacturer is able to have more control over the orientation and thus the linear imperfections that the process produces.  At normal viewing distances they don't appear significantly different to my Hornby K1, the only exception being the cab roof which does show a little evidence of stepping, but even then it has clearly been cleaned up post printing.

 

If the roof bothers you it's actually fairly simple to replace as it's supplied removable, a plastic alternative might be better but you will lose the lovely rivet details and rainstrip details together with the bell which will need carefully removing from the original roof if you want to move it to the new one.   I don't see it as a problem and am happy to leave it as it is.

 

I also have a Chris Ward 3D printed GVT Baldwin awaiting finishing which shows that with primer you can lose almost all evidence of the origin, again the main issue is the cab roof as it's the only large scale curved area, 

 

This is likely to be the future of small batch ready-to-run, particularly in 009 which probably can't justify much in the way of RTR locos, it will be interesting to see how the Heljan L&B loco and Bachmann Baldwins go and what they might generate as follow ups, I don't think there are many prototypes that would sell enough for the major manufacturers.

 

I'm very happy with my Fourdees locos, when running on the layout they don't appear any different to the rest of the stock whether RTR, kitbuilt or my own efforts.

 

Martin

 

Glyn - a bit dusty as it's currently earning it's living on the part built layout testing clearances

 

2 photos of Dennis, removed from it's temporary home in the cabinet

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rue_d_etropal]

There have been a lot of critics of 3D printed models. Cameras don't help as they do show up the lines. At the end of the day what is better, waiting a couple of years for a manufacturer to get a r2r model out, build a kit, or use 3D printing to get something out quicker.

 

By using the Kato chassis this has enabled a working model to be produced. The Kato chassis is OK, and can be bought very cheaply , but I have had 2 small problems with one. The first was an overheating motor, easily fixed with a spot of Peco oil(it eally does get to the parts other oils don't get to), and a more recent problem was that on a simple circle of track the unit ran well, but on a figure of eight the pickups did not always touch wheels. This meant I had to take the unit apart(VERY CAREFULLY)  and ease out the pickups. I managed to get it back together OK, but the 2 axle pickup still has its limitations and the bogie version seems to run better. Pity is, it only drives on one bogie, and ideally needs weight added to help it pull skin off rice pudding.

 

I presume this model has added weight as the 3D printed plastic is very lightweight.

 

I welcomed the introduction of this model, as it set a benchmark for 3D printed models. OO9 is an ideal scale for 3D printing(apart from lack of weight) as the models are small so are relatively cheap to produce. Those of us who have dipped our fingers (and possibly a bit more in some cases) in designing models for 3D printing, have found it to be more popular than other scales. Finding a chassis to fit is the biggest problem, but for some small locos there do seem to be some new chassis coming out in Japan. 3D printed wagon chassis for some wagons can be tricky, as it is necessary to increase overall width to accommodate the extra 1mm of gauge(obviously not so much a problem with Glyn Valley stock).

 

Being able to resize designs for 3d printing is one big advantage, and that means it is easier to satisfy both OO9 and HOe/HOf modellers. The OO9 market might be bigger, but there is a growing interest in using 6.5mm gauge in HO, thanks to Busch. The future for narrow gauge modelling is a lot brighter thanks to 3D printing.

 

It will be interesting to see how well the new models planned by Fourdees turn out.

[Jeff Smith]

I know every little about 3D printing except what I have read and seen on here and other forums etc. However I would have thought that a print is really just a starting place to make a decent model and that further finishing should be expected - just like white metal where you expect to do a fair bit of work to refine it. Surely smoothing out the printed edges on a roof or other essentially flat horizontal surface should not represent too much of a chore.....and also to give the builder a sense of contributing to the overall excellence of the finished model.

[Talltim]

The problem with sanding filling stepped lines in curved surfaces (or ones diagonal to the print orientation) is not losing the rivet and other small surface detail.

[Chubber]

I know every little about 3D printing except what I have read and seen on here and other forums etc. However I would have thought that a print is really just a starting place to make a decent model and that further finishing should be expected - just like white metal where you expect to do a fair bit of work to refine it. Surely smoothing out the printed edges on a roof or other essentially flat horizontal surface should not represent too much of a chore.....and also to give the builder a sense of contributing to the overall excellence of the finished model.

 

Well, Jeff, if on buying my Kernow Well tank I discovered a note inside to the effect that the cab roof needed further finishing I would have been a bit miffed! 

 

I agree that smoothing out a roof is not too onerous task, but doing the same to a boiler, with its attendant fittings and lack of access to some areas would bring on a fit of grumpitis, let alone miffedness....

 

There are some lovely looking body works being printed for 'scratch-aid' building, but at least one knows there will be a deal of fettling to do.

 

As for  your "...just like white metal where you expect to do a fair bit of work to refine it." 

 

Wait until you see my efforts with the model I have on order from Lytchett Manor models. I don't think 'refine' will enter the equation to any great degree!

 

Doug

[Jeff Smith]

Doug - not sure what is wrong with 'refine'......I built the Gem NL 0-6-0 Tank a while back and I think refine covered it - not too much wrong with it that some fettling, scraping and thinning couldn't sort out.  I did fit a brass roof on the cab though.

[Chubber]

No, Jeff, I mean that given my previous efforts with white metal almost guarantee the result won't be very 'refined' at all!!

 

I only hope that older and wiser[?] perhaps with a little more patience I'll do better. Also, I shan't be using two-part epoxy this time.

 

Doug

[Jeff Smith]

Doug - good move to get away from gluing white metal.  Solder is instant and you can fill a few gaps too; and if it all goes wrong drop into a pot of boiling water and then start again!  It's worth spending time to get the parts to really fit together well before applying the iron, then with a long joint or seam you can tack-solder the two ends and then fill in.  An adjustable temp soldering iron is almost essential - for attaching small items keep the temp below the white metal melting point but when joining two fairly chunky bit together you can ramp it up well above as the parts will act as a heat sink and the solder should flow better when really hot - be quick though!

[Kenton]

Sadly there are more scare stories about white metal than there really should be. I still think 3D printing is where white metal was in the 60's (some would say it is still there) which is more of an under development banner.

 

For me the appearance of quality RTR in 009 is to be applauded - even if it does mean 3D, and although I will not be buying one I still see this as a step in the right direction. So what, if under the eye of a strong magnifying glass or even fancy digital camera work the lines can be seen, I am sure that if seen on a layout with the No 1 eyeball it will look finer and much more (better) detailed than any kit build.

 

I do, however think that for around that price, a better mechanism could have been found/developed. The Kato power unit is something used when we start out in 009 and I think lets this model down considerably. I can see some folk ripping it out and replacing with some HOe mechanism or even better .. and that really does start to make it very expensive for what must be a relatively inexpensive 3D print cost. I believe that most folk who model in 009 want reliable slow running - the Kato chassis on its own does not provide that - and I can see very few modellers having bought RTR taking it apart to improve it even by addition of weight.

[Chubber]

Thank you for that, Jeff, I have recently been looking at videos on the NGRMOL forum of soldering white metal models using a blowtorch....scary, or what? I have a problem getting suitable flux posted here to France but will try to get some posted to a chum for onward posting 'nonnimously' together with the low temp solder. Would tinman's [killed spirits of salt] work, I wonder?

 

 

 

Doug

[Jeff Smith]

Doug,

 

I have a similar problem here in the US with obtaining both low-melt solder and flux. US brass/white-metal modellers seem content with regular electrical rosin cored solder or to use various glues. There is a very expensive 135C solder here called TIX with a suitable flux which I have used for brass but I can't find anything commercially with a lower melting point. Regarding flux - try looking at hobby supplies for stained glass windows, it is used liberally in that hobby and, certainly in the US, is quite cheap and not over corrosive (you still need to wash it off when finished though!).

 

PS - a blowtorch sounds very scary for white metal.......!

[Jeff Smith]

I do, however think that for around that price, a better mechanism could have been found/developed. The Kato power unit is something used when we start out in 009 and I think lets this model down considerably. I can see some folk ripping it out and replacing with some HOe mechanism or even better .. and that really does start to make it very expensive for what must be a relatively inexpensive 3D print cost. I believe that most folk who model in 009 want reliable slow running - the Kato chassis on its own does not provide that - and I can see very few modellers having bought RTR taking it apart to improve it even by addition of weight.

Perhaps Fourdees should offer unfinished and/or painted bodies for sale alongside it's RTR locos - just a thought.......

[Kenton]

 

Perhaps Fourdees should offer unfinished and/or painted bodies for sale alongside it's RTR locos - just a thought.......

In better keeping with the RTR concept would be an upgraded (more appropriate) drive unit. Those who want DIY should build the simple Peco kit and add the drive unit of choice. I really cannot see any point in buying a highly detailed (relatively expensive - to the kit) 3D printed model then attempting to finish it yourself.

 

As for whitemetal, you should be washing the flux off after every session any way. Is not phosphoric acid available from the Dispensary in France?

[Chubber]

Yup, and I could enquire about Phosphoric acid, thanks.

 

D

[Chubber]

Just to say the following, Chronos Engineering did great service, 4 day delivery to rural SW France for Red Flux and LT solder & no quibbles re posting.

 

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/

 

The Bagnall kit arrived from Lytchett Models this afternoon, looks very clean, very square and very very small, oo-er!

 

With a fistful of thumbs,

 

Doug

[BR-Green]

Are they still running as I've sent them 4 email and called them this week with no response

[Moxy]

Are they still running as I've sent them 4 email and called them this week with no response

 

As far as I know they are still trading, I bought an 'Atlas' class loco off them about a month ago and looking at their website today it has a different picture on than the last time I looked.

 

Regarding contacting them, please bear in mind that because you have sent 4 e-mails doesn't necessarily mean they have arrived, also there is only effectively 1 person running the business, so if he is 'out of the office,' you won't get a response.  Keep trying them, they will reply when they can.

 

HTH