Keyser GWR A31 Autocoach

[cctransuk]

I have recently acquired a pair of Keyser autocoach kits - fortunately the versions with the plastic roof.

 

From a posting elsewhere, I have learned that :-

 

the model is of Diagram A31, converted from steam railmotors built to diagram Q;

 

possible numbers are 202, 203, 207, 208, 209 and 219;

 

202/3/19 had 8 ft wb fishbelly bogies, 207/8/9 had 7ft light duty bogies;

 

207 was condemned in December 1956, the other two in March and August 1957 respectively.

 

The kits that I have obtained have American bogies, which it would appear are unusable for this project.

 

Can anyone confirm the above information, please?

 

Does anyone have withdrawal dates for 202/3/19?

 

I am guessing that all of the A31 autocoaches would have been crimson during their BR careers, but was this plain or lined? Did any receive crimson & cream? As the withdrawal dates are rather early for my modelling period, is there a record of the withdrawal livery of any of these coaches.

 

Finally, is there a published drawing of A31?

 

Regards,

and thanks in advance,

John Isherwood.

[petethemole]

Re livery, BR appears to have painted  auto trailers in carmine/cream so A31s are unlikely to have received maroon before withdrawal.

 

Pee

[ThePipersSon]

I think you are correct in terms of the bogies (well John Lewis in the Wild Swan book agrees).  The A31s were rebuilt form Q and Q1 steam railmotors.  The Q railmotors were built by Gloucester and had double doors in the centre.  The Q1s were built at Swindon and had a single door instead.

 

One of the Q1s had american bogies (no. 204), so if you were interested in keeping the american bogies, it would just be a case of changing the centre doors to a single door.   As you are talking about making up a Ks kit, I assume that this is not too much of a step.  There is a good picture of 204 in the Great Western Auto Trailers (part one) book.

 

Tom

[lofty1966]

Re livery, BR appears to have painted  auto trailers in carmine/cream so A31s are unlikely to have received maroon before withdrawal.

 

Pee

Incorrect.

There are several pix of Maroon livery A31's in the Lewis Autotrailer Part 1 book

Also a 2mm to the foot line drawing there as well.

I am slowly building three of them in a thread on here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/99047-loftys-ks-dia-a31-autotrailer-rescuelash-up/

An update shortly

The K's American Bogies are 9ft which are too long (should be 8ft)

No 8ft Fishbellies available from any manufacturer

7ft lightweights available from Comet or buy a cheap Hornby Collett Bowender Coach and pinch the Bogies.

Edited July 23, 2015 by lofty1966

[chrisf]

 

There are several pix of Maroon livery A31's in the Lewis Autotrailer Part 1 book

Treat the use of the word 'maroon' with caution!  For reasons best known to the author, John Lewis applies that word both to the shade of red introduced in 1949 and to the darker shade adopted in 1956. The 1949 hue, sometimes called carmine, conforms to the British Standard definition of crimson, although early references in the RO described it as crimson lake.  Whether BR or the RCTS [or both] got it wrong I'm not sure.  They are not the same.

 

Chris 

[lofty1966]

Thanks Chris.

interesting stuff I was not aware of.

[cctransuk]

Treat the use of the word 'maroon' with caution!  For reasons best known to the author, John Lewis applies that word both to the shade of red introduced in 1949 and to the darker shade adopted in 1956. The 1949 hue, sometimes called carmine, conforms to the British Standard definition of crimson, although early references in the RO described it as crimson lake.  Whether BR or the RCTS [or both] got it wrong I'm not sure.  They are not the same.

 

Chris 

 

John Lewis also referred to the BR lining colour as both gold and yellow - in fact, in describing the BR lined maroon he states that the upper lining was gold and the lower lining yellow !!

 

I am trying to establish the as-withdrawn liveries of the A31 auto-trailers.

 

I now have, courtesy of the Vale of Rheidol bookshop, a brand new copy of "Great Western Auto Trailers Part 1"; and this has undated BR-era photos of W207W, W209 & W211.

 

If anyone knows of any other BR-era photos of A31 auto trailers, I would be most greatful for the information.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Johnster]

The GW had been in the habit of painting auto trailers in it's best main line liveries and BR (W) continued with this; crimson and cream was applied between 1948 and 1950 when the vehicles should have been being turned out in plain crimson (not maroon as stated in Lewis).  Apparently Riddles, no less, noticed one at Paddington and demanded to know what the .... was going on as crimson/cream was his livery for main line gangwayed coaches only; the practice was thence discontinued, no doubt amongst seditious mutterings in the paint shop at Swindon...  

 

I have not seen any photographic evidence of any A31 in crimson/cream BR livery, though there is one in Lewis of an example in early 1948 chocolate/cream.  AFAIK none ever received unlined 1956 maroon BR livery, and all were withdrawn before the introduction of lined maroon for all stock in 1958.

Edited April 10, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

My own attempt at W 207 W in BR crimson with plated toplights is now more or less complete; the saga can be followed on Kits'n'Scratches and can be recommended to those who are not of a nervous disposition and have nothing better to do...  

 

This was a rebuild and working up of a completed kit that needed some TLC, so I can't help with comment about the actual construction.  207 had 8' fishbelly bogies, not 7' Collett light duty, and I have compromised by using Stafford Road Works/Shapeways 3D printed 9' fishbellies with the footboards cut off but retaining the tiebars.  These are lovely bogies and run very well with Hornby wheels without needing bearings.  I had some concern about the steadiness of the very heavy whitemetal body on these bogies, but had no cause as it turned out.  AFAIK no 8' fishbelly bogies are available from any source.

 

It'll never be a scale model of anything with such thick whitemetal sides, but, with the addition of a floor and seats as well as interior saloon dividers and removal of some of the cruder blobby cab end detail to be replaced with better stuff, it scrubs up well, is reasonably to scale, runs well, looks enough like an A31 for all but the most committed rivet counters, and captures the look of these shorter auto trailers very well.  

Edited May 31, 2019 by The Johnster