ess1uk Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 There was a caib branded one on there this morning and a Redland one too I think. I'm looking for yeoman ones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) PTAs - very unlikely I'm afraid. They were coupled in sets with special rotating buckeyes between the intermediate vehicles for use in their previous life as iron ore tipplers (so one wagon at a time could be tipped upside down without uncoupling) In their original grey livery the orange end denoted the rotating coupler. Only the end vehicles had standard buffers and coupling. I suppose its only one that you couldn't use, two or more would work, maybe being tripped somewhere for maintenance? Edited January 21, 2016 by Talltim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Found these http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/LIMA-OO-GAUGE-HOPPER-WAGONS-MODEL-RAILWAY-/252260595705?nav=SEARCH If any use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 PTAs - very unlikely I'm afraid. They were coupled in sets with special rotating buckeyes between the intermediate vehicles for use in their previous life as iron ore tipplers (so one wagon at a time could be tipped upside down without uncoupling) In their original grey livery the orange end denoted the rotating coupler. Only the end vehicles had standard buffers and coupling. I suppose its only one that you couldn't use, two or more would work, maybe being tripped somewhere for maintenance? Thought so. Still debating what to do with 3 I've somehow obtained Tim I believe there were some brake vans converted as barrier vehicles when some needed moving without their 'outers', but I'm not sure if that was for the stone or ore sets. If in doubt, rule 1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 21, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 21, 2016 A thread from a while ago about the PTA match wagons: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101007-translator-vehicle-for-iron-ore-rotary-tippler-wagons/&do=findComment&comment=1950842 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 There are a lot of pgas on eBay at the moment in various liveries so you could mix it up even more if you wAnted? Over the last 3 months I've picked up 24 through Ebay or Hattons second hand, some "as new" triple packs, some badly weathered with strange loads (one looked like gold sprayed chunks of cork - I have no idea!) which I've managed to sort out. I've also picked up some of the Lima tipplers for my second rake - 6 at the moment and will probably go for about 9 or 10. I have seen a rake of 18 going down to Crawley towards the end of last year but I don't think the budget, or the fiddle yard, will manage that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I've also picked up some of the Lima tipplers for my second rake - 6 at the moment and will probably go for about 9 or 10. I have seen a rake of 18 going down to Crawley towards the end of last year but I don't think the budget, or the fiddle yard, will manage that. The load from Redcar to Consett was two class 37's in multi' and 9 loaded tippler, so no need to have massive trains! Mark Saunders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Just found the RFQ rotary match wagon pools that ran with crippled iron ore PTA wagons BR Ferryhill rotary tippler match pool 6393 M 732343 M 732375 M 732445 M 732521 BR Immingham rotary tippler match pool 6329 B 954524 B 954620 B 954682 B 954769 B 954935 B 954952 BR Ravenscraig rotary match tippler pool 6389 B 954566 B 954876 BR Port Talbot rotary match tippler pool 6391 B 954767 B 954813 B 954860 B 954912 Assumed the Ferryhill pool was for the Ravenscraig PTA that ran with the lime from Ferryhill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 The load from Redcar to Consett was two class 37's in multi' and 9 loaded tippler, so no need to have massive trains! Mark Saunders I'll be hauling mine with my 59 (at long last I've found something for it to pull...) so I won't quite be going scale length but as there are likely to be a variety of size trains depending on demand at the time I'm sure there will be plenty of examples of shorter than 18 wagon trains about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hello SG, Interesting thread - thanks for posting. Because I live on the edge of the fens the Trowse trains are ones I see relatively regularly, and I think they are very modellable. This would have been a much better shot if I had fired the shutter a fraction earlier, so the loco didn't occlude Ely cathedral in the background, but it shows the variety of the wagons: I am not sure if the wagons were quite so mixed up in your period. As has been said previously, ownership has changed over the years, which is why the original Redland and Lafarge logos have been patch painted out. Though a small number are still branded: Funnily enough, I have embarked on a small project to replicate some of the varieties of PGA on this train in N myself, though it is strictly a "representative" modelling job. I am using plasticard to alter the shapes of the standard Farish PGA wagon, and have produced some custom etches for the end platforms and some of the underframe detail, but I am not suggesting that these will be especially accurate models as some of the body and solebar strengthening fillets will not be correct.... at the moment still very much a work in progress... cheers Ben A. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 When these wagons first appeared, a lot were paid for by 'Section 8' grants from the Department of Transport. Grant submissions would specify the number of vehicles (including maintenance spares) required for a particular flow, and these wagons would almost always run as homogenous rakes dedicated to these flows for a long while. Over time, changes in traffic flow meant some wagons becoming redundant, and these would find their way into other flows. Those bogie wagons in Ben's photos were used originally for flows such as sea-dredged aggregate from Newhaven to Crawley and Tolworth, and sand from Mark's Tey to King's Cross, I believe; both flows which have disappeared. As to mixing PTAs and PGAs, you could always use the precedent of a train which grouped together flows to a number of terminals; the obvious one is that to Acton Yard from Westbury, but another was from Mountsorrel to East Anglia, with portions to Kennett and Trowse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyneux Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I've spent a lot of time looking at photos of aggregate traffic from Westbury. I've never seen PGAs and PTAs in a mixed train from the ARC/Yeoman days. I'd love to be proved wrong though! I'm going to need quite a few rakes of both for my model of Whatley! Guy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 I'll be hauling mine with my 59 (at long last I've found something for it to pull...) so I won't quite be going scale length but as there are likely to be a variety of size trains depending on demand at the time I'm sure there will be plenty of examples of shorter than 18 wagon trains about. I have a picture in one of my books somewhere of an ARC 59 on 12 PTAs, first 6 are in ARC, second six are in De-branded Yeoman....... Hello SG, Interesting thread - thanks for posting. Because I live on the edge of the fens the Trowse trains are ones I see relatively regularly, and I think they are very modellable. This would have been a much better shot if I had fired the shutter a fraction earlier, so the loco didn't occlude Ely cathedral in the background, but it shows the variety of the wagons: P1070138.JPG I am not sure if the wagons were quite so mixed up in your period. As has been said previously, ownership has changed over the years, which is why the original Redland and Lafarge logos have been patch painted out. RMW.jpg Though a small number are still branded: P1070151.JPG Funnily enough, I have embarked on a small project to replicate some of the varieties of PGA on this train in N myself, though it is strictly a "representative" modelling job. I am using plasticard to alter the shapes of the standard Farish PGA wagon, and have produced some custom etches for the end platforms and some of the underframe detail, but I am not suggesting that these will be especially accurate models as some of the body and solebar strengthening fillets will not be correct.... at the moment still very much a work in progress... IMG_3445.JPG cheers Ben A. Those are some brilliant images, thank you Ben. I am invoking a heafty dose of rule 1 for my flow as it is going to be in an era a little earlier than the current Trowse make up (although i can remember passing Trowse in an anglia mk2 in the year 2000 and seeing Redland PGAs in the terminal).I like the idea of extending some of the sides with plasticard, it would also help hide any top extension i carry out. Good luck with your n scale version of this! Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2016 Be aware of the curse of the Lima plastic woes, there were 2 kinds used.., virgin and recycled. From the 30 odd I've attacked, the Amey seem to be the best, with the Yeoman ones the worst, almost like bakelite, this problem manifests itself in the bogie bolster E's too. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Thanks Mike, if i remember right there are some Amey in the supply from Tim, i'll use those for any that need work rather than just paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Ok, following a link sent to me by a fellow RMWebber who has clearly spent far too much time with a camera at Trowse, the majority of my PGAs will be worked on and repainted into Redland colours. Some of his photos date back to 1998 which falls into my era. Obviously a dollop of rule 1 is still being applied with the big tiphook wagons, and the Tarmac PGAs will likely stay as they are. I'm tempted to try a couple of the ex salt PGAs as pictured on page 1 of this thread, but as yet I'm unsure when and where they saw use mixed in with other PGAs. For the 'pics or didn't happen' crew, here's the supply I have received, plus I have another Tarmac hopper in a different box. There's a box of spares that goes with these as well. ARC hoppers will get a touch of debranding, Amey and the bauxite one at the bottom will receive surgery and full resprays: On the PTA front, the 3 that I have will be moving on to a new RMweb home rather than gathering dust here for the next several years at the bottom of my projects pile. THAT IS ALL. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 Ref salt PGA on aggregate flows; Paul Bartlett comes up trumps with this shot dated 1987 at Westbury: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bulksaltpga/h157546a8 Clearly a refurbished salt nestled between 2 ARC PGAs. Other pictures listed one (ex salt) photoed at Mossend. Good enough for me to show them 'getting around', rule 1 invoked! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Ref the PTA's, the Yeoman ones did end up running mixed up with the O&K built boxes which were similarly buckeye equipped - here in the mid 90s:By the mid 00s there were some really mixed sets about - I shot some of this rake in 2005 including PTA's in Yeoman, ARC and patched ARC liveries, plus some of the O&K boxes, and at least one of the newer MRL JNAs! (More shots in here: https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Daybyday/2005/2005-02-25-Eastleigh/ ) Edited January 22, 2016 by Glorious NSE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grampus Posted January 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Ref salt PGA on aggregate flows; Paul Bartlett comes up trumps with this shot dated 1987 at Westbury: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bulksaltpga/h157546a8 Clearly a refurbished salt nestled between 2 ARC PGAs. Other pictures listed one (ex salt) photoed at Mossend. Good enough for me to show them 'getting around', rule 1 invoked! Evening all, though I have previously posted this picture in another thread on here, thought this snap of an ex-Salt PGA in the middle of an eastbound Yeoman set at Salisbury might be of use. Though I don't recall the date ( - never thought to record such things then) it was mid-1980s (poss 1984 and almost certainly before 1986 - not a hint of any NSE colours in any of the other shots from that day). For a while these wagons appeared quite regularly, hunting in packs of half a dozen or so and tagged on to the back of sets of the more common versions. Hope that helps. Cheers, Paul Edited January 22, 2016 by Grampus 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grampus Posted January 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2016 Just found another one, taken on the same day, with a couple of them in an empty westbound rake: two are visible immediately to the left of the '47, with a Yeoman coupled between them. Best wishes, Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Cheers Paul, they are useful shots showing similarities/differences between the 'regulars' and the 'Salt'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Here is my attempt at modelling just some of the CAIB PGAs that were used on the Tunstead to Northwich flow from the start of 1998 until 2001 when replaced by the new JEA bogie hoppers. The first box contains a motley collection of ex Yeoman liveried wagons And the second box the ex ARC liveried wagons That is only some of the wagons the main ones I tried to model as seen was the sole Yeoman liveried wagon, the one with the very faded and battered Yeoman plus the wagon with the pale aquamarine shade of blue. Most ex Yeoman wagons just had the Yeoman painted out in blue with the CAIB sticker added on top and sometimes the sticker was on the lower sloping panels. The ex-ARC wagons generally had the ARC logo painted out in grey in various shades although a couple did escape and retained the full ARC logo. Again CAIB stickers were applied and at least two different sizes. I used the Fox Transfers CAIB logos although these may not necessarily be correct but it is all I could get hold of at the time. I first did these models about 15 years ago using the Hornby model as the basis and then modifying and changing things as I went along. Top of the list was to get rid of the awful plastic ladders and end walkways and replace them with etched ladders, etched walkway and handrails and supports bent up from fine brass rod. The hand brake wheels were also changed as well and used press-stud fittings to try and represent the shape of the real hand wheels. Some of the ARC wagons had the higher top lip of the hopper body added. I left the buffers as they were and just painted and weathered them up and painted the shanks silver. Wheels were replaced to mainly with Bachmann wheel-sets except for the ARC wagons fitted with Cambrian BSC pedestal suspension these were fitted with Romford wheel-sets with added disc-brake faces added and painted silver. Modified Parkside plastic loads were used to make the stone loads that could be removed as required especially if running two rakes one loaded, one the empties to give more operational flexibility on Hazel Valley. And finally, the couplings were upgraded to the Bachmann mini-type ones replacing the large Hornby ones as fitted. Cheers Paul 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobster Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Very nice sets of wagons there Paul - Nice work Cheers, Bob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixchris Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 They look excellent Paul, could I ask where you got the etched ladders and walkways from please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Quite a number present in August 1985 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bulksaltpga/ea6b2a8b[Lovely evening quick visit on the way home from a Grape phylloxera outbreak a bit further into Somerset] and also June 1983 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bulksaltpga/ea6b2a8b Paul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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