Driving standards

[Coldgunner]

I knew this chap years ago, nice guy and family man, killed in 2020 by a drink and drug driver. Driver got 8 years for killing 2 people.

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/their-daughter-will-grow-up-without-memory-of-them-family-of-bob-and-paula-bateman-tell-of-pain-after-fatal-crash-9126832/

Edited November 10, 2022 by Coldgunner

[Il Grifone]

12 hours ago, Coldgunner said:

I knew this chap years ago, nice guy and family man, killed in 2020 by a drink and drug driver. Driver got 8 years for killing 2 people.

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/their-daughter-will-grow-up-without-memory-of-them-family-of-bob-and-paula-bateman-tell-of-pain-after-fatal-crash-9126832/

 

Usual ridiculous sentence!

 

2 counts of "Causing death by dangerous driving"  -  30 years - maximum sentence for the aggravating circumstance of driving under the influence of drink and drugs plus a lifetime ban from driving* seems more appropriate to me (or am I too harsh?).

*This should be mandatory for this offence IMHO.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Il Grifone

[kevinlms]

On 10/11/2022 at 22:27, Reorte said:

 

The bus stop I ended up walking to was near Plymouth station, often seemed to get there just as a 47-hauled parcels train was leaving towards Cornwall. That was the red livery with the light blue rectangles on it that I always thought looked like some damage that had been fixed and they'd not yet had a chance to paint over it in anything other than undercoat.

 

You realise someone got paid heaps to design that livery?

[kevinlms]

On 10/11/2022 at 08:39, PhilJ W said:

 

I would have been on the phone to the police if I saw that!

[Coldgunner]

10 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

Usual ridiculous sentence!

 

2 counts of "Causing death by dangerous driving"  -  30 years - maximum sentence for the aggravating circumstance of driving under the influence of drink and drugs plus a lifetime ban from driving* seems more appropriate to me (or am I too harsh?).

*This should be mandatory for this offence IMHO.

 

Sentencing is difficult, I don't envy the judges tbh. In this case it should have been harsher imho as he knowingly did what he did. I understand some accidents are genuine though, but this guy should have gotten longer.

[johnofwessex]

A|t the expense of thread drift, AFAIK in The Netherlands there are no prison sentences of more than two years, instead the option is either intensive rehabilitation in the community or detention in a psychiatric hospital, reviewed by a judge every two years.

 

Also worth pointing out that in general in the UK offenders DONT like being hospitalised as the regime is more structured and they are held to account for what they have done.

 

In the state of Victoria, Australia, amongst other things Drink Driving bans are 'o the spot' and you dont automatically get your licence back after a ban, you have to demonstrate that you have addressed the behaviours that caused you to be banned in the first place.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by johnofwessex

[kevinlms]

7 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

A|t the expense of thread drift, AFAIK in The Netherlands there are no prison sentences of more than two years, instead the option is either intensive rehabilitation in the community or detention in a psychiatric hospital, reviewed by a judge every two years.

 

Also worth pointing out that in general in the UK offenders DONT like being hospitalised as the regime is more structured and they are held to account for what they have done.

 

In the state of Victoria, Australia, amongst other things Drink Driving bans are 'o the spot' and you dont automatically get your licence back after a ban, you have to demonstrate that you have addressed the behaviours that caused you to be banned in the first place.

 

 

To be 100% accurate for Victoria. If you are 0.049 or below on your preliminary breath test, you are free to go.

If you hit 0.05 or above on your evidentiary test, it's instant loss of licence for 3 months minimum and an interlock will be required, as and when you get it back.

 

https://www.tac.vic.gov.au/about-the-tac/media-room/news-and-events/2018/getting-tough-on-dangerous-drink-and-drug-drivers

 

It used to be for between 0.05 and 0.069, you kept your licence and the magistrate decided, but that option was removed.

 

Other states, I think have introduced similar laws.

Edited November 12, 2022 by kevinlms
Typo

[faulcon1]

Unfortunately bad driving is the same the world over no matter which side of the road you drive on. Impatient people cutting others off, speeding, and ignoring road rules to others fiddling with audio systems, to texting on phones. Mobile or smart phones are drugs these days with so many whose faces are glued to the screen. A message comes in and they have to answer it right away and the same if someone calls and that call must be answered immediately, it cannot wait. All these products for hands free use still take away the one thing that people need when driving and that's total concentration on driving and all it entails. Police don't confiscate a phone if they see it being used whilst a person is driving because that confiscation would deprive the government of money. They want people to use their phones so that they can rake in the money via fines. I've had many an argument with my boss over my refusal to answer the phone whilst driving and I always state the same thing in that I'm there to drive not talk away to people on the phone. I don't multi task and I have no intention of starting whilst I'm driving.      

Edited November 13, 2022 by faulcon1

[Grovenor]

And have you noticed the sheer number of TV programs these days where they film the driver having a conversation with the passenger continually head turning to look at the passenger and only paying peripheral attention to the road. Anything from reviewing the car to driving ambulances to buying antiques. They set a bad example, IMHO.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, faulcon1 said:

 I've had many an argument with my boss over my refusal to answer the phone whilst driving and I always state the same thing in that I'm there to drive not talk away to people on the phone. I don't multi task and I have no intention of starting whilst I'm driving.      

Just ignore your bosses demands. He won't be paying any fines or taking demerit points - so end of matter.

 

You can always suggest that you will answer, but don't ever! 'Mistakes' happen. 😉😇

 

I used to use hands-free kits, but I would on occasion drive and when I got off the call, I had no recollection of that drive, so calls go to voice mail now.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, faulcon1 said:

Unfortunately bad driving is the same the world over no matter which side of the road you drive on. Impatient people cutting others off, speeding, and ignoring road rules to others fiddling with audio systems, to texting on phones. Mobile or smart phones are drugs these days with so many whose faces are glued to the screen. A message comes in and they have to answer it right away and the same if someone calls and that call must be answered immediately, it cannot wait. All these products for hands free use still take away the one thing that people need when driving and that's total concentration on driving and all it entails. Police don't confiscate a phone if they see it being used whilst a person is driving because that confiscation would deprive the government of money. They want people to use their phones so that they can rake in the money via fines. I've had many an argument with my boss over my refusal to answer the phone whilst driving and I always state the same thing in that I'm there to drive not talk away to people on the phone. I don't multi task and I have no intention of starting whilst I'm driving.      

It is illegal to use a hand held mobile while driving here in the UK but people still do so. Problem is that the penalties a so small when they should be on par with drink driving IMHO.

[faulcon1]

13 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

It is illegal to use a hand held mobile while driving here in the UK but people still do so. Problem is that the penalties a so small when they should be on par with drink driving IMHO.

The police here will fine you if they see you using a mobile whilst driving but they won't confiscate the phone. They could easily open the phone up and remove the Sim card and then hand the phone back to the owner. But they don't and yes the fines should on par with drink driving fines.

[faulcon1]

13 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Just ignore your bosses demands. He won't be paying any fines or taking demerit points - so end of matter.

 

You can always suggest that you will answer, but don't ever! 'Mistakes' happen. 😉😇

 

I used to use hands-free kits, but I would on occasion drive and when I got off the call, I had no recollection of that drive, so calls go to voice mail now.

I do ignore my female boss when she phones and I'm driving and it drives her crazy which makes me feel good. I phone her when I get to my next job location and I'm parked with the engine off. I have a hands free device but still refuse to answer the phone and I have the ring volume set to zero so I just get the vibration noise.

[Reorte]

5 hours ago, faulcon1 said:

I do ignore my female boss when she phones and I'm driving and it drives her crazy which makes me feel good. I phone her when I get to my next job location and I'm parked with the engine off. I have a hands free device but still refuse to answer the phone and I have the ring volume set to zero so I just get the vibration noise.

One of the good things about not having one at all is that people can't pester you when driving and expect you to answer, but it sounds like you need one for your job (although personally I'd probably just have it switched off, or can't you turn off modern phones?)

[tractionman]

19 minutes ago, Reorte said:

One of the good things about not having one at all is that people can't pester you when driving and expect you to answer, but it sounds like you need one for your job (although personally I'd probably just have it switched off, or can't you turn off modern phones?)

 

if I want to be sure of not being disturbed by the phone I put it on aircraft mode.

 

 

[kevinlms]

46 minutes ago, Reorte said:

One of the good things about not having one at all is that people can't pester you when driving and expect you to answer, but it sounds like you need one for your job (although personally I'd probably just have it switched off, or can't you turn off modern phones?)

Most jobs now do require a phone - however, expecting anyone to answer it, when the holder considers it 'unsafe', then it should be given a raspberry.

Up to the boss or whoever, to prove that it was actually safe for you to answer - good luck on that one!

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, faulcon1 said:

I do ignore my female boss when she phones and I'm driving and it drives her crazy which makes me feel good. I phone her when I get to my next job location and I'm parked with the engine off. I have a hands free device but still refuse to answer the phone and I have the ring volume set to zero so I just get the vibration noise.

In all Australian states, I believe you now can have the engine running (for stuff like the air con to work), as long as you are legally parked - sitting at traffic lights NEVER counts, with the vehicle in park/neutral and the handbrake on.

It was done because it was recognised that there needed to be a uniform standard. The fines and penalties vary from state to state, but the criteria is uniform.

[kevinlms]

38 minutes ago, tractionman said:

 

if I want to be sure of not being disturbed by the phone I put it on aircraft mode.

 

 

The problem with that solution, is that you need to put it back to normal, when you have finished.

My wife often turns the ring off, when she goes to the doctor or similar = good.

 

Trouble is, when we go shopping afterwards and she is in a different location to me, so I call her. It rings out and goes to voice mail, so I leave a message.

Half an hour later, I get a call, where are you, I've been waiting for you to call! Of course, she didn't have her glasses on, so couldn't read the message = very bad! My fault of course.

[Reorte]

2 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

The problem with that solution, is that you need to put it back to normal, when you have finished.

My wife often turns the ring off, when she goes to the doctor or similar = good.

 

Trouble is, when we go shopping afterwards and she is in a different location to me, so I call her. It rings out and goes to voice mail, so I leave a message.

Half an hour later, I get a call, where are you, I've been waiting for you to call! Of course, she didn't have her glasses on, so couldn't read the message = very bad! My fault of course.

All sounds like another advantage of simply not having one, I can't get grilled for any of that!

[jcredfer]

It's taken my daughter [17yrs old] over 12 months to stop texting me, when she knows I'm driving.  She's definitely like all her "face-in-phone" friends and finds it difficult to stop her natural "first-go-to" reaction - text.  She's actually got to the stage where she doesn't quite get irritated anymore, as she's now seen how many serious accidents are caused by drivers with their hands on a phone.

 

 

[TheQ]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

One of the good things about not having one at all is that people can't pester you when driving and expect you to answer, but it sounds like you need one for your job (although personally I'd probably just have it switched off, or can't you turn off modern phones?)

at one time the last company I worked for insisted we be phone contactable for an hour after normal hours... 

it took me around half an hour to drive home.. and then our house is in a black hole as far as phone calls are concerned... Oh dear how sad...

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

at one time the last company I worked for insisted we be phone contactable for an hour after normal hours... 

it took me around half an hour to drive home.. and then our house is in a black hole as far as phone calls are concerned... Oh dear how sad...

 

There's very little mobile reception in my house too (as far as I can tell from visitors). Got the landline but I'd be a little reluctant to give out the number, I'm not sure my work has it in any official capacity. If they did I might have to nip down to the pub most evenings after work. Or just get the train in more often (walk to station, train, walk home takes more than an hour).

 

Mind you I'm not talking about the type of job where being on call is a reasonable expectation.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Reorte

[Coldgunner]

If I knock off at 5pm, I'm not contactable. Only certain people have my personal number, in case I'm needed to cover a shift at short notice (I'm always free to refuse), but if I ignore it, its fine. You want me to work outside of my contracted hours, then you better pony up the cash.

 

My car is a little older and uses the aux in for music/audiobooks, which I play on my phone. I also use it for google maps to navigate, mounted to the dash, but I never take calls on it. I still think of hands-free systems as a distraction too (yes I know I use google maps).

I've got a dedicated sat nav as a backup, but its out-dated and doesn't give traffic info.

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, TheQ said:

at one time the last company I worked for insisted we be phone contactable for an hour after normal hours... 

it took me around half an hour to drive home.. and then our house is in a black hole as far as phone calls are concerned... Oh dear how sad...

When my wife was working on CTRL Section 1, they insisted that she have a Vodaphone mobile, despite there being no coverage in our village at the time. The result was that she would have a dozen or more calls appear on screen as soon as she crossed the village boundary.

[Jonboy]

6 hours ago, jcredfer said:

It's taken my daughter [17yrs old] over 12 months to stop texting me, when she knows I'm driving.  She's definitely like all her "face-in-phone" friends and finds it difficult to stop her natural "first-go-to" reaction - text.  She's actually got to the stage where she doesn't quite get irritated anymore, as she's now seen how many serious accidents are caused by drivers with their hands on a phone.

That’s the wife’s favourite habit, texting me when I am likely to be driving to collect her….