Suitable wheels for LNWR Cauliflower in 4mm

[Spitfire2865]

Hello.

I had posted a simple spoke counting question as a status because I was feeling inept at even counting due to not finding any suitable wheels. But apparently that deemed it to be locked. So now heres a full topic for it.

 

Ive counted the spokes in multiple photos and always end up with 5' 2-1/2" 15 spoke wheels crank between spokes, yet I cant find one wheel manufacturer who produces something suitable.

Its all 16 spoke, which I realize wouldnt be such a bad alternative, but if I could get it right, I would like to.

 

Unless Im just counting wrong and it is the more common(apparently) 16 spoke variety.

 

Anyone know of currently available (i dont want to go searching through ebay for sharman wheels) wheels suitable for a Cauliflower?

[Mark Forrest]

I think I came to a similar conclusion when considering one of these for a future project. The page on the LNWR Soc website confirms 5' 2 1/2" with 15 spokes. There are a few Gibson wheels of that diameter, but all have 16 spokes.

[Spitfire2865]

I think I came to a similar conclusion when considering one of these for a future project. The page on the LNWR Soc website confirms 5' 2 1/2" with 15 spokes. There are a few Gibson wheels of that diameter, but all have 16 spokes.

On a 4mm model, how noticeable would one extra spoke really be? Almost invisible?

[Mark Forrest]

Yes, I would have thought hardly noticable, particularly when moving!

 

I'd be interested to know the view of others too though.

[ozzyo]

One thing to watch for with L.N.W.R. locos is that the L.N.W.R. normally gave the wheel size as over the cast wheel centre not over the wheel tyre. So the wheel could be approx. 5'6" - 5'7" at the tyre.

 

OzzyO.

[Horsetan]

On a 4mm model, how noticeable would one extra spoke really be? Almost invisible?

 

Yes, but if you have a chance to get it right, why not get it right?

 

Once upon a time, you could probably obtain the right wheel from Sharman Wheels, but the range died not long after Phoenix Paints took over. Small quantities are still made to go with London Road Models kits, but I don't know if John Redrup would be willing to obtain an extra set for you. Worth asking, I suppose - the worst he can say is "no".

[Spitfire2865]

Yes, but if you have a chance to get it right, why not get it right?

 

Once upon a time, you could probably obtain the right wheel from Sharman Wheels, but the range died not long after Phoenix Paints took over. Small quantities are still made to go with London Road Models kits, but I don't know if John Redrup would be willing to obtain an extra set for you. Worth asking, I suppose - the worst he can say is "no".

Well I was thinking of getting the LRM Cauliflower as my next kit so if wheels are produced, Id seriously consider it.

Though I was considering Markits wheels as I like being able to take wheels off without resorting to adhesives to keep them together.

[Spitfire2865]

One thing to watch for with L.N.W.R. locos is that the L.N.W.R. normally gave the wheel size as over the cast wheel centre not over the wheel tyre. So the wheel could be approx. 5'6" - 5'7" at the tyre.

 

OzzyO.

I noticed that when looking at the specs for the special tanks. It gave two measurements, the second seeming like the tyre size at 2-1/2"

Though what the cauliflower has is now a mystery to me.

[Bernard Lamb]

On a 4mm model, how noticeable would one extra spoke really be? Almost invisible?

Yes.

But as Guy Williams once said "I will know it is wrong".

Bernard

[Spitfire2865]

Yes.But as Guy Williams once said "I will know it is wrong".Bernard

Well whos to say Ill even remember how many spokes are on it? I fussed about the wheels for my Jinty, and now I cant remember anything but that it has wheels. And they even turn too!

[ozzyo]

I noticed that when looking at the specs for the special tanks. It gave two measurements, the second seeming like the tyre size at 2-1/2"

Though what the cauliflower has is now a mystery to me.

 

So that looks like a wheel size of 5'7 1/2" to me. Over the wheel tread.

 

OzzyO.

[Spitfire2865]

So that looks like a wheel size of 5'7 1/2" to me. Over the wheel tread.

 

OzzyO.

A 5 inch tread?

 

Edit

Through a quick search, I found a photo of the GEM Cauliflower kit and it says 5'2-1/2" wheels. I wouldnt expect the instructions for a kit to be as misleading as the LNW apparently were.

Also found the tender wheel size, which is helpful.

[ozzyo]

A 5 inch tread?

 

Edit

Through a quick search, I found a photo of the GEM Cauliflower kit and it says 5'2-1/2" wheels. I wouldnt expect the instructions for a kit to be as misleading as the LNW apparently were.

Also found the tender wheel size, which is helpful.

 

Yes 2 1/2" per side, or if you would prefer on the Rad. That would give 5" on the Dia.

 

OzzyO. 

[Spitfire2865]

Yes 2 1/2" per side, or if you would prefer on the Rad. That would give 5" on the Dia.

 

OzzyO.

 

Ignore my ineptitude. And Im starting to agree with you. Pretty big wheels on the Cauliflower.

Thats just great as what I thought was an avaliable driver from markits isnt so.

[Michael Edge]

This is correct for the cast iron wheels with H section spokes as fitted to 0-8-0s etc. but does not apply to all LNW wheel sizes. Cauliflower wheels were 5'2 1/2" over new tyres and had 15 spokes. Just to confuse this a bit more though, some Cauliflowers had wheels with 12 H section spokes - sometimes referred to as "duckfeet". However this wheel isn't available either.

[Spitfire2865]

This is correct for the cast iron wheels with H section spokes as fitted to 0-8-0s etc. but does not apply to all LNW wheel sizes. Cauliflower wheels were 5'2 1/2" over new tyres and had 15 spokes. Just to confuse this a bit more though, some Cauliflowers had wheels with 12 H section spokes - sometimes referred to as "duckfeet". However this wheel isn't available either.

The H section wheels were fitted to the first batch of  Cauliflowers built, but all the rest built had normal spoked wheels fitted. I guess they realized it looked stupid.

 

And I found a perfect side view of the engine ex works condition and measuring the wheels and wheelbase and a quick calculation proves that new wheels for the cauliflower were 5'2-1/2". While no 15 spoke wheels are available, Markits, and Gibson both produce a 16 spoke version of the 5'3" wheels, which is close enough to not be a bother to me size wise. Sadly there arent 15 spoke wheels available. Oh well.